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Post by Retrovision on Dec 4, 2007 1:36:26 GMT -8
Between 1960 and 1966 William Andrew Cecil Bennett and Philip Arthur Gaglardi, WACky Bennett and Flying Phil by nickname, commissioned Phillip Granville Spaulding - and Knud E. Hansen for the, at-the-time Pride of the Fleet, 1966-built Queen of Prince Rupert - to build their fleet from scratch. Long story short, they built the foundation of the fleet we now live with and have done so for seemingly countless years since, Vancouver and Gulf Islanders in particular. To begin I'll start you off with a quote from the authoritative " Dogwood Fleet" by Cadieux and Griffiths published in the year of our country's centennial, 1967, regarding the now in Mid-Life Refit Queen of New Westminster... A True Night Boat (By today's standards atleast  )
From Page 52: |
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Post by Mike C on Dec 6, 2007 22:02:16 GMT -8
Thank you Graham, I think that will be a good read for new members who are unfamiliar with the history of our great ferry fleet, and a memory refresh for the new members.
I think it should also be mentioned that our mighty fleet was based on Blackball's Coho, currently doing the Port Angeles-Downtown Victoria run.
I'm positive that a few members could show us some photos of the original Sidney-class ferries, and some of them already have under the "Historical Photos" thread in Ferry Photos. Compare what you see to photos the MV Coho, and I'm sure you can spot the similarities and the differences.
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Post by hullnumbers on Mar 25, 2014 20:53:26 GMT -8
Didn't know where to put this but this thread will do. Been looking at how the major terminals evolved and No one knows or done any research so I will explain my thoughts.
We know when the terminals opened but I have looked into when the upper ramps for the major terminals were built. For starters route 2 (Departure Bay to Horseshoe Bay) had theirs done in 1976. This year makes sense since 2 ferries on this route were retired and the Coquitlam and Cowichan were built to do this route. Route 1 ((Swartz Bay to Tsawwassen) had theirs done in 1981 for the newly lifted V-Class. The Langdale dock (I suspect) was done in 1984. Clues are on page 60 of Ships of British Columbia. The Alberni is docked at Langdale. She was lifted in 1984 and in the picture the ramp shows that it was black meaning it was new. So conclusion Langdale upper ramp was built in 1984.
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Post by Dane on Mar 26, 2014 20:11:41 GMT -8
April 1982 it was in service in doubled configuration as a C was deployed in '82 on Rte 3 for a bit.
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Post by princessofvanfan on Mar 26, 2014 20:18:17 GMT -8
Actually, the original C-class ships were built to service the proposed new Iona Island - Gabriola Island route, but this route was scrapped after the ships had already started to be built. That's why they ended up on route 2, and also had such a small cafeteria/dining area, which has been enlarged significantly over the years. The Iona - Gabriola run would have only been 40 minutes, which would not have required the same level of food services as the 95 minute run.
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Post by hullnumbers on Mar 27, 2014 16:52:54 GMT -8
I see, it makes sense too. What ferries were on route three from 1976 to 1982?
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Post by Dane on Mar 27, 2014 19:19:06 GMT -8
Burnaby / New West I believe.
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Post by hullnumbers on Mar 27, 2014 21:19:17 GMT -8
Ah, ok.
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Post by princessofvanfan on Mar 28, 2014 13:39:34 GMT -8
And the Nanny was used as an extra vessel on route 2 during the summer months, if memory serves.
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Post by hullnumbers on Nov 20, 2014 13:32:03 GMT -8
I been re-looking at the Departure Bay Terminal history and the ferries that docked there. On the Geocities BC Ferries and Westcoastferries Terminal page it said it began 1951, but there is info of the Kahloke renamed Langdale Queen and put in service in 1953. Did the Kahloke start the Departure Bay and Horseshoe Bay route in 1951 or 1953?
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Post by Low Light Mike on Nov 20, 2014 13:55:33 GMT -8
I been re-looking at the Departure Bay Terminal history and the ferries that docked there. On the Geocities BC Ferries and Westcoastferries Terminal page it said it began 1951, but there is info of the Kahloke renamed Langdale Queen and put in service in 1953. Did the Kahloke start the Departure Bay and Horseshoe Bay route in 1951 or 1953? From what I have read, the Departure/Horseshoe route was started in 1953. (1951 was when the Horseshoe/Gibsons route was started with Quillayute) |
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Post by WettCoast on Nov 20, 2014 14:25:07 GMT -8
According to Robert Turner (in another of his excellent books, The Pacific Princesses - see p 203) the Kahloke began service on what we now call route 2 on 27 June 1953. You could say that that day was day 1 of modern automobile ferry service between Vancouver Island and the BC Mainland.
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Post by hullnumbers on Nov 20, 2014 22:04:17 GMT -8
I see, that changes how we thought route two began in 1951. Also that day 27 June 1953 does not mark the first modern automobile ferry service between Vancouver Island and the BC Mainland. CP started that service in 1929 and they did modify some of their ships to carry cars for the Victoria to Vancouver route.
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Post by WettCoast on Nov 20, 2014 22:23:41 GMT -8
I see, that changes how we thought route two began in 1951. Also that day 27 June 1953 does not mark the first modern automobile ferry service between Vancouver Island and the BC Mainland. CP started that service in 1929 and they did modify some of their ships to carry cars for the Victoria to Vancouver route. By 'modern automobile ferry' I meant 'role on - role off' vessel with bow/stern loading optimized for carrying autos, and lots of them. I really don't think any of CP's Princesses come close although you could say that the Motor Princess, or maybe Princess of Nanaimo in the early 50's were headed that way. |
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mrdot
Voyager 
Mr. DOT
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Post by mrdot on Nov 20, 2014 22:38:51 GMT -8
:)indeed you can trace the roll-on-roll-off ferry rite back to the Motor Princess, unfortunatly the CPR did not realize how advanced this humble looking vessel was, as forrunner of the modern diesel drive, in fact my one-time BC ferry days had me working one day on her antique wooden car deckwhen she replaced our regular Mayne Queen, as the relief Pender Queen! :)mrdot.
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Post by hullnumbers on Nov 20, 2014 22:39:10 GMT -8
I see, that changes how we thought route two began in 1951. Also that day 27 June 1953 does not mark the first modern automobile ferry service between Vancouver Island and the BC Mainland. CP started that service in 1929 and they did modify some of their ships to carry cars for the Victoria to Vancouver route. By 'modern automobile ferry' I meant 'role on - role off' vessel with bow/stern loading optimized for carrying autos, and lots of them. I really don't think any of CP's Princesses come close although you could say that the Motor Princess, or maybe Princess of Nanaimo in the early 50's were headed that way. Ah, ok. |
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Post by Starsteward on Nov 21, 2014 7:04:55 GMT -8
:)indeed you can trace the roll-on-roll-off ferry rite back to the Motor Princess, unfortunatly the CPR did not realize how advanced this humble looking vessel was, as forrunner of the modern diesel drive, in fact my one-time BC ferry days had me working one day on her antique wooden car deckwhen she replaced our regular Mayne Queen, as the relief Pender Queen! :)mrdot. And I thought that my days on the venerable Sechelt Queen were a throwback to yesteryear.  The last wooden car deck I remember was riding the old North Vancouver Ferry #3 many moons ago. |
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Post by Low Light Mike on Dec 3, 2018 18:06:50 GMT -8
Didn't want to dig much deeper to post this. It came in on my Google feed on the weekend. A little history for the younger members. Hoping an admin with help with this.
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Post by WettCoast on Jan 21, 2019 23:02:22 GMT -8
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Post by Starsteward on Jan 23, 2019 17:50:06 GMT -8
Looking at this project in retrospect, the lifting of the 'sisters' was quite, don't know if 'innovative' is the right term but this procedure wasn't well known about, or am I mistaken. Having 'stretched' most of the 'sisters' was one thing but slicing them longitudinally was quite the leap of marine engineering. I don't recall it being done elsewhere but I could be wrong about that as there's lots of maritime builds/refits going on all over the world. The 'stretching' made the 'sisters' look very trim and sleek but I think the lifting operation took some of that look away. Still, the 'sisters' that underwent the major cosmetic surgery maintained a very classy look, saved by the original Spaulding influence. With the Queen of New Westminster the sole survivor of the major 'surgeries', we know that plans are already on the drawing boards for her replacement. She will outlast the last of the 'sisters' if you can call the 'Burnaby' as one, but then again the Queen of Burnaby had a bit of an checkered career as well. Sadly neither the Burnaby or the Queen of Prince Rupert could fill the shoes of the much missed Princess Marguerite. |
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Post by Blue Bus Fan on Jan 23, 2019 21:48:46 GMT -8
I didn’t grow up the time of when the V-Class where under going major rebuilds. Was there any decision of just building new vessels to replace them?
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Post by WettCoast on Jan 23, 2019 22:18:29 GMT -8
I didn’t grow up the time of when the V-Class where under going major rebuilds. Was there any decision of just building new vessels to replace them? Simple. They could produce a ship with capacity (both for passengers & autos) similar to that of a C class vessel for a fraction of the cost, and a fraction of the time that would be required to build new ships. |
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Neil
Voyager
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Post by Neil on Jan 23, 2019 22:28:57 GMT -8
I didn’t grow up the time of when the V-Class where under going major rebuilds. Was there any decision of just building new vessels to replace them? Simple. They could produce a ship with capacity (both for passengers & autos) similar to that of a C class vessel for a fraction of the cost, and a fraction of the time that would be required to build new ships. That was a good question, and it was a good, concise answer as well. |
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Post by Starsteward on Jan 24, 2019 2:32:32 GMT -8
Simple. They could produce a ship with capacity (both for passengers & autos) similar to that of a C class vessel for a fraction of the cost, and a fraction of the time that would be required to build new ships. That was a good question, and it was a good, concise answer as well. The retro-fit program began during Premier Bill Bennett's second term in office and at the time interest rates were high and the economy on the critical list. Under the Bennett administration there were deep cuts to Social Services, Education, and negation of some of the progressive labour laws implemented by the Dave Barrett, NDP government, ('72-'75). The retro-fit program of the 'sisters' was a calculated stroke of good fortune for the ferry fleet, as the economy had to weather the '80's downturn and high interest rates. The one sector that did not appear to suffer the wrath of Social Credit cutbacks was the building of transportation infrastructure. The 'Coq' highway was built, Sky- Train and Sea Bus introduced and topped off by (what was at one time, in real danger of being scuttled, only to be saved by the persuasion of and capable administration of one Jimmy Pattison, Expo '86). A, 'just for fun' Expo '86-related question if I may? Name the provincial cabinet minister who took on a federal senator in one of the canniest displays of inter-governmental negotiations that secured the construction of 'Canada Place'? The Feds, I believe ended up footing the major share of the construction costs. Under successive Social Credit administrations, the ferry fleet welcomed many B.C. ship-yard new-builds with the 'SOBC' and 'SOVI' construction begun before,(as 'Bennett the Elder' would say: "the Socialist Hoards" regained control of the public purse in 1991). Under the Glen Clark administration, we had of course, what became the 'Fast-Cat' fiasco and the political fallout that ensued. Looking back at what got built while the ferry system was under total government control and what has ensued since the ferries were ejected from Crown Corporation status, given the neglect the entire system received from the 'Christie Clark' administration flying the 'Liberal banner. ( Gordon Campbell had managed to get the 'Coastals built and delivered before Ms. Clark became Premier). Was the record of vessel new-builds, vessel replacements, etc. measurably better under Crown Corporation status, albeit under several different political parties/administrations or has the BCFS as a 'pseudo-public' company begun to solve the problems of inheriting an aging fleet, requiring fleet renewal as well as new-builds to meet the needs of all the coastal communities on our Pacific Coast? |
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Post by WettCoast on Jan 24, 2019 9:35:19 GMT -8
Simple. They could produce a ship with capacity (both for passengers & autos) similar to that of a C class vessel for a fraction of the cost, and a fraction of the time that would be required to build new ships. That was a good question, and it was a good, concise answer as well. Just going with this a little further ... What if BC Ferries had opted instead to build four additional C class vessels for use on Route One? What would they have done with the seven stretched relatively new sisters? They managed to find 'homes' for the two sisters that never were lifted, but I don't think it would have been possible to find 'homes' for all seven vessels as well as the original two Sidney class vessels. The growth of BC Ferries (# of passengers, # of vehicles moved, # of ships, etc) during its first three decades was astonishing. Could anyone in 1960 possibly have foreseen what was to come?
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