Koastal Karl
Voyager 
Been on every BC Ferry now!!!!!
Posts: 7,747
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Post by Koastal Karl on Nov 16, 2009 11:48:18 GMT -8
I was on the Coquitlam and Oak Bay yesterday and both ships they had security people walking around the ship. I take it this is what it will be like from now until the Olympics are over??? I havent noticed this on any other mainland route just route 2.
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Mirrlees
Voyager
Bathtub!
Deck Engineer- Queen of Richmond
Posts: 1,013
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Post by Mirrlees on Nov 18, 2009 0:02:48 GMT -8
Over the Summer, I noticed that there were a pair of security guards with dogs at Swartz Bay. They met the foot passengers coming off the 9pm from Tsawwassen showing a presence.
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Post by lmtengs on Nov 18, 2009 17:53:37 GMT -8
Over the Summer, I noticed that there were a pair of security guards with dogs at Swartz Bay. They met the foot passengers coming off the 9pm from Tsawwassen showing a presence. Probably either A) Bomb sniffing or B) drug sniffing |
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Post by Scott (Former Account) on Nov 18, 2009 17:58:32 GMT -8
Over the Summer, I noticed that there were a pair of security guards with dogs at Swartz Bay. They met the foot passengers coming off the 9pm from Tsawwassen showing a presence. Probably either A) Bomb sniffing or B) drug sniffing is the correct answer. |
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Nick
Voyager
Chief Engineer - Queen of Richmond
Posts: 2,078 
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Post by Nick on Nov 18, 2009 18:03:12 GMT -8
Probably either A) Bomb sniffing or B) drug sniffing is the correct answer. Actually, both could be correct. At SWB, anyway, there are 3 different canine units these days. One is from Fisheries, looking for illegal shellfish and other trade-banned seafood. The other two are either RCMP or other police forces doing spot drug checks, or 3rd party security firms hired by BCF for security (bombs etc). |
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Post by Northern Exploration on Nov 18, 2009 18:40:23 GMT -8
Dogs are always trained for one specific purpose, rather than cross trained for multiple uses or agencies.
At the behind the scenes trials at the new Terminal One at Pearson Airport YYZ, we were able to meet some of the various pooches that work the various tasks for the agencies. There is a cute beagle that sniffs for food products from overseas. A beautiful Golden Retriever that works for US Customs and Border Services looking for drugs. And the Peel Regional Police that have responsibility for the airport (not RCMP in Ontario) use German Shepherds. Among others.
A funny story with the US Customs Golden took place when a colleague and I were traveling to New York after having dinner at a Keg. The dog is trained to sniff and if it smells drugs to sit. He kept smelling my suit pants and the shoes of my female colleague. Despite knowing we didn't have anything illegal on us, we both still started to sweat. The border services agent asked us where we were coming from. On hearing he chuckled, gently pulled the dog way and moved on to the next people in line.
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Post by Ferryman on Jan 2, 2010 0:20:25 GMT -8
Just from a quick search on Flickr, I discovered a new sign posted at Horseshoe Bay. I haven't seen this sign posted at any of the other terminals yet, so I'd assume it's just a matter of time. www.flickr.com/photos/sillygwailo/4231403735/ |
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Nick
Voyager
Chief Engineer - Queen of Richmond
Posts: 2,078
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Post by Nick on Jan 2, 2010 0:48:05 GMT -8
Swartz Bay has that sign outside the footie terminal... apparently it's been there since early December.
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Post by Quinsam on Jan 18, 2010 18:13:14 GMT -8
I can live with security guards and German Shepherds - easily. Just as long as the security guard isn't carrying an automatic rifle. A year ago today, I would have said: "Who in their right mind would have a German Shepherd as a pet? Today, I want one! LOL
Unfortunately, one thing I cannot abide is CCTV cameras in large numbers - no more than two for a single area (shop, dock, street, e.t.c). In London, you can't go anywhere without being on CCTV at least twice. There's a famous saying from a US man named Thomas Jefferson: "Those who would sacrifice a little freedom for a little security will lose both and deserve neither."
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Post by fargowolf on Jan 18, 2010 21:39:47 GMT -8
A bomb on a B.C. ferry is unlikely but it has happened in the past. Many years ago a dynamite bomb was found before it went off. Actually, the bomb did go off. Thankfully it was during the overnight hours and no one was on that deck. It had been placed in a life belt locker on board the Chinook II during the height of the Dukhabor uprising. |
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Post by Quinsam on Jan 31, 2010 1:15:43 GMT -8
Does anybody know the security firm that BC Ferries has hired? I believe I could put my affection for dogs and my time to good use here... Could be my big comeback to this forum after years of neglect
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Post by Scott (Former Account) on Jan 31, 2010 13:33:39 GMT -8
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Koastal Karl
Voyager
Been on every BC Ferry now!!!!!
Posts: 7,747
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Post by Koastal Karl on Jan 31, 2010 23:36:59 GMT -8
First time today on the Celebration I saw a security guy wondering around the ship! I have seen them at the terminals at Tsawwassen and Swartz Bay but havent seen them on the route 1 ships before. Anyone know how Horseshoe Bay is right now with security???
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Post by lmtengs on Feb 1, 2010 17:12:46 GMT -8
First time today on the Celebration I saw a security guy wondering around the ship! I have seen them at the terminals at Tsawwassen and Swartz Bay but havent seen them on the route 1 ships before. Anyone know how Horseshoe Bay is right now with security??? One security guard was trying to stare me down at Horseshoe when I was re-entering the compound last christmas, but besides that, the only presence I've noticed is the ship-board patrols. |
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Post by Ferryman on Feb 3, 2010 22:13:56 GMT -8
I was over at Departure Bay this morning visiting Human resources. I was a little surprised about the security changes at the terminal administration building that have occured just in the past month or so. With all of the hoops I had to jump through just to make it up a set of stairs and approach a desk just to talk to one person. Normally you could just breeze past the front desk administration and head up the stairs. But I had to get the administration to buzz me in through the door to the stairs. When I got to the top of the stairs I had to be buzzed through yet another door just to access Human resources. But on the other hand I suppose it's to be expected with the Olympics and all.
I was also at Fleet House in Victoria yesterday, but didn't see any real tightened security down there. No bomb sniffing dogs at least.
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Post by Quinsam on Feb 5, 2010 21:08:13 GMT -8
And I thought that security was meant to be an "all hands on deck" job. I've been turned down simply because I'm "too young and not available enough"
If only these guys knew that they're turning down an honest, passionate and friendly possible-employee. I can't help but feel extremely put-out about it. When I write a letter-sized e-mail, I expect a similar response... Here is what I sent:
"Hi there. I'm interested in applying for the position of being a K9 handler. I do not have any relevant experience with dogs, but I do have a soft spot for German Shepherd Dogs.
I live near Victoria , BC , but can stay in the Vancouver area for necessary training.
Is there an age restriction to the job? I'm almost eighteen, and available to work the evening shifts after school. (3pm)
Also, if the dog becomes ill or has other complications, who is responsible? I believe I can house a trained dog, if I achieve the position...
This is all I recieved:
"Sorry, you are too young and not available enough.
(name)"
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Post by lmtengs on Feb 5, 2010 21:34:34 GMT -8
Probably when they say that you're too young, they are also telling you, though not directly, that they would prefer an employee who has more experience working with those kinds of dogs in that kind of environment. Maybe try and hire on with a smaller-scale company doing smaller jobs for at least 6 months, then reapply to WK9, adding to your resume that you've already worked with [company name here] and are now looking to move on to larger-scale operations. That would likely increase your chances of getting hired. It could also be that WK9 just doesn't need any new handlers at this time.
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Neil
Voyager
Posts: 7,185
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Post by Neil on Feb 5, 2010 23:04:22 GMT -8
"Hi there. I'm interested in applying for the position of being a K9 handler. I do not have any relevant experience with dogs, but I do have a soft spot for German Shepherd Dogs. I live near Victoria , BC , but can stay in the Vancouver area for necessary training. Is there an age restriction to the job? I'm almost eighteen, and available to work the evening shifts after school. (3pm) Also, if the dog becomes ill or has other complications, who is responsible? I believe I can house a trained dog, if I achieve the position... This is all I recieved: "Sorry, you are too young and not available enough. (name)" Well, if I was doing the hiring for that company, I certainly wouldn't have passed you over. When you're choosing someone for a position that can involve explosives and narcotics detection, who needs qualifications, when you can have a teen with " a soft spot for German Shepherd Dogs"? QT, thanks for the chuckle. I like your sense of humour.  |
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Post by Quinsam on Feb 6, 2010 0:16:44 GMT -8
Maybe try and hire on with a smaller-scale company doing smaller jobs for at least 6 months... What would you suggest, Canadian Viking? I have a desire to work with man's best friend and I'm willing to sacrifice my time to do so. The entire idea of applying to WK9 was the fact that I live five minutes' drive away from Swartz Bay terminal, and am available daily from 3:00pm-11:00pm - which fills in the requirement for full time shifts as advertised. Also, the advertisement stated that "K-9 experience is an asset but not required" Neil - what I sent to WK9 was nowhere near humorous, it was fact. How many seventeen year olds do you know who would love to work in such a job? Most people I know of are scared silly by GSDs, wheras I have the love and respect for them that could make me a good handler. |
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Post by lmtengs on Feb 6, 2010 1:14:11 GMT -8
What would you suggest, Canadian Viking? I have a desire to work with man's best friend and I'm willing to sacrifice my time to do so. I don't have any exact companies at-the-ready, but you could volunteer with the SPCA, or even better, try and hire on with a dog training service, or just a smaller-scale Canine security service. You could always be really adventurous and breed some German Shepherds yourself ;D To tell you the truth, I have no idea.  |
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Post by sgrant on Apr 5, 2010 21:19:12 GMT -8
This may not interest many of you, but it is a relevant BC Ferries matter.
There are big things and little things that make this part of the world special. One of those little things is being able to take kayaks and canoes aboard BC Ferries as walk-on passengers.
A large group of us traveled from Tsawassen to Swartz Bay, and back again, this weekend. We were on a paddling trip using kayaks and canoes. We ran into BC Ferries' preparations for terrorism.
Our practice is to drive to the Tsawassen toll booth, tell the attendant that we're just driving down to the dock to unload and then taking the cars back out to a parking lot. We pay for the people and the boat(s), but not for the cars. We drive right down to the dock, unload the boat(s) and gear, and take the car(s) back out to either the BC Ferries parking lot, or the Park & Go at the land end of the causeway. The drivers then reenter the terminal as foot passengers, with their tickets, and walk back down to the dock.
The paddlecraft are on wheels, and are rolled aboard the ferry. At Swartz Bay, until this year, there was a walking route through the eastern side of the parking areas. This connected to Dolphin Road, then shoreward down Barnacle Road to the beach and the federal government dock. This access, and similar ones on other ferry routes, makes it very feasible to do Vancouver Island or Gulf Island paddling trips without taking a car on a ferry.
On the return, we'd reverse this and trundle the boats down to the ferry dock at Swartz Bay. People would go up some obscure stairs to the passenger terminal above to buy walk-on tickets. At Tsawassen, we'd roll the kayaks and canoes just off the ferry to the spot where cyclists and dog owners wait. Some of us would then go fetch the cars, drive to the toll boths, and tell them we're just driving down to the dock to pick up paddlecraft and passengers. Virtually all the booth staff knew this routine.
No hassles, no problems. We were always surprised something so sensible would be allowed by a corporation like BC Ferries and it helped us feel good about living here.
That all changed this weekend.
Our party comprised 23 people with 15 boats and about 8-9 cars. At the start of the trip, most of us passed through the Tsawassen booths without delay. But a few people were told that we needed to be escorted down to the dock, our baggage etc. would be checked, and our names would be recorded. This escort and inspection did not take place.
At Swartz Bay, we found extensive new cattlepens of concrete barriers supporting high chain link fences, topped by barbed wire. These fences entirely close off the walking route to Dolphin Road. Someone must have seen us milling about, because a large electric gate blocking us from Dolphin Road suddenly slid open. Ok, so good so far.
On our return today, we ran into far more trouble. First of all, the staff peering down from a nearby control tower refused to open the electric gate for us, and asked that we take our boats (on wheels) up to the entrance booths. The main entrance is quite some distance away, and uphill. Since none of us actually did that, we didn't determine how far you have to walk beyond the booths just to get around fences and uncooperative gates.
While one person walked up to the booths to discuss the matter there, another person went to a blue-painted pedestrian gate near the big electric gate from Dolphin Road, where they found some sort of telephone that allowed them to ask someone to unlock the pedestrian gate for us. We gather this gate is for the entry of BC Ferries staff.
Rolling a canoe or kayak, let alone 15 of them plus kids, up and down Dolphin Road is a safety hazard. The road is narrow, has a sharp corner, and has frequent heavy truck traffic. And if you lack have wheels for your craft, this means of access would be nearly impossible.
So we got on the ferry, and transited to Tsawassen. On the way, we were wonderfully entertained by a semi-professional music group, no doubt in violation of BC Ferries regulations that would instead encourage you to waste money in their folksy video game arcade.
At Tsawassen, we fetched our cars and attempted to reenter the terminal. At the toll booths, we explained what we were doing. Booth windows slid shut, phone calls were made. "Nope, can't let you in. New security policies prohibit driving down to the docks. I see you have wheels (we had a box in the back seat that our canoe cart came in). From now on you have to leave your car in the parking lot, and wheel your boat between the parking lot and the ferry."
"But we were parked in the Park & Go. Isn't it kind of stupid to expect people to wheel their kayak or canoe the whole length of the causeway?" Booth window slides shut again. Another phone call. Eventually another answer: "If you're using the Park & Go, you have to bring your car to the Short Term Parking, buy a ticket for that, and wheel your boat between the parking lot and the ferry."
"As for now, you have to go out that exit over there, make a sharp (and unsafe) turn into the exit stream, make another sharp (and unsafe) turn at the light, park in the Short Term Parking and buy a ticket, and walk back in to get your boat and passengers."
Fine, we did that. However, other members of our party were allowed to drive back in and down to the dock with no obstruction. I gather one person drove down without full permission, which stirred up BC Ferries security people, and later, the police. I don't have all the details about that yet.
Finally, we discover that getting yourselves and your boat back into the Short Term parking lot requires that someone unlock a gate near the foot passenger terminal. You can get them to do that by appearing to be intent on walking your boat back through the passenger terminal itself.
It needs emphasis that all this assumes you have your paddlecraft on wheels. I doubt BC Ferries has any idea how to handle matters if you have the misfortune to show up carrying your boat.
I find this very disturbing. One explanation that makes it all simple is that BC Ferries may have decided to frustrate people so much they give up trying to walk aboard ferries with paddlecraft. They may have realized how much more money they could make forcing people to take their cars onto the ferries, and the prospect of overheight fees as a bonus must make this even more attractive. And damn the wasted marine fuel and deck space.
But I think it's much more likely that all their costly anti-terrorism planning simply did not take into account the (time honored and perfectly sensible) practice of walking aboard the ferries with paddlecraft.
However, what do I know? Terrorists may be so dumb they'd get a car, put a roof rack on it, and drive down to the dock hoping to have enough explosives to sink a ferry from the dock. They'd never think of, for instance, driving a transport filled with explosives onto the ferry itself, or approaching a ferry, by sea, with a boat filled with explosives. And they'd never think of scooting out of line to drive down to the dock to exactly the same place BC Ferries doesn't want us to go.
BC Ferries is checking vehicles onboard for explosives, I hear. But someone could do their damage as soon as they boarded. There is absolutely no protection we could see from water-borne attack. Someone could even cross the border by water without being checked.
To frustrate the practice of loading and unloading paddlecraft down beside the dock seems pretty dumb, given that anyone could drive down there anytime anyway. Why in blue blazes would anyone detonate a bomb from a car on the dock when they can drive transport trucks aboard? Or motorhomes? Or approach by sea? Or use divers to plant something at night?
But don't worry, a terrorist simply can't outsmart BC Ferries by mounting a roof rack on their car.
From the standpoint of wanting to be safe from bombs while on ferries, this institutional stupidity worries me. Just the fact various members of our group were treated in entirely different ways indicates BC Ferries either doesn't know how to deal with anything unusual, or their staff training is lacking.
As for BC Ferries being part of BC's character, the corporation has suddenly taken on an Americanized/armed camp sort of undercurrent.
The whole thing is stupid, ugly, and virtually ineffective.
There's also the issue of having to pay to park in the Short Term parking, on both your arrival and departure, if you use the Park & Go lot. Which you have to do anyway when the BC Ferries lots are full. This is robbery.
One nice thing bearing mention was that the ferry staff set aside a spacious area for us to park our boats on the ferry, rather than being jammed in beside transport trucks. We appreciated that.
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Post by Scott on Apr 5, 2010 22:43:25 GMT -8
Sign of the times I guess. And I really don't like it either... it's like we've got to live in fear even though the danger is probably not much different than it was 50 years ago. We had a few odd balls try to bomb the ferries back then too. The BC Ferries employees probably need to get used to all the changes - the things they're used to doing for years - now they can't do it any more. And we probably can't lay all the blame on BC Ferries management either because I think a lot of it has been forced on them by government agencies. It's unfortunate that they have to inconvenience everyone every day on the off chance some nut-job tries to do something 5 years from now. And that nut-job will just find something else to do. In my opinion it's not worth it, and I doubt it will save any lives.
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Post by Northern Exploration on Apr 6, 2010 7:51:35 GMT -8
I am not sure this is as much a security problem as a lack of communication and employee training. All the terminal personnel should be on the same page. Signage alerting changes should be clear. People with Kayaks shouldn't be a surprize to BCF and they should have worked through all the customers who would be impacted. Perhaps they did and this was just an oversight.
I haven't checked but clear note of changes should be on the BCF website. IE. If you are a "xyz" traveler please note the following changes.
There are numerous options for how BCF could have handled this, including having someone escort the vehicle with the Kayak into the secure area and direct them out. What is called for is a customer service approach not a "we will sort of figure it out as we go". When you don't have a customer service approach the customer always suffers. To send someone all the way back to the ticket booths in my mind needs some retraining.
Had this been better implemented, I don't think the poster and fellow Kayakers would have been as inconvenienced and probably not as upset with the changes. The old addage of lack of planning is actually a plan to fail, sure applies here.
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Post by sgrant on Apr 6, 2010 10:57:03 GMT -8
Thanks for the feedback.
I don't think there's advice anywhere telling passengers with kayaks and canoes what they are supposed to do at the ferry terminals. The only place they are mentioned is for the fares.
The basic problem here is that although it might seem at a cursory glance that barring paddlers from driving down to the docks might mitigate a security threat, in reality it accomplishes nothing. What terrorist is going to get a roof rack and a kayak to drive only as far as the dock, when they could simply drive a truck aboard? Better yet, use a boat out in deep water.
I've forwarded this matter to BC Ferries, so I'm standing by for a response.
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Neil
Voyager
Posts: 7,185
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Post by Neil on Apr 6, 2010 12:01:13 GMT -8
Is there some sort of provincial kayaker/canoeist association? Perhaps if they opened a dialogue with BC Ferries it might carry some weight. The situation you described is absurd. People towing big honkin' power boats can drive on with no more problem than a hefty vehicle fare, while eco-friendly kayakers are treated like third class citizens.
Judging from the fairly good rapport that BC Ferries has developed with local ferry advisory committees, and the responsiveness that they've shown to some of the concerns raised through that process, I tend to think that this is something that just hasn't been thought through very well. Hope I'm not wrong. Good luck with your queries.
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