Coquihalla toll-free!

[DENelson83]

So, what did you think of Premier Campbell's sudden announcement yesterday in Penticton that no more tolls will be collected on the Coquihalla? I was personally elated.

[stvfishy]

Conspiracy time. I wonder if there is a deal in the works for more federal money to double more of the #1 in exchange for the Coq becoming part of the Trans-Canada There is an election on the go...

[DENelson83]

I actually wouldn't mind the Coquihalla becoming part of Highway 1. Every time I rode with my family into the Interior, we always used the Coquihalla.

[Northern Exploration]

I have actually only been on the Coquihalla once and that was driving to Calgary from Vancouver. All the other times I have been west in recent years I have had limited time so driving wasn't an option. If they remove the tolls I wonder if more services will be added. A Timmies drive through would be welcome.

[DENelson83]

What I think should be done is that so-called "highway oases" such as the ones used on the Illinois Tollway be built over the Coquihalla. That way the surrounding terrain can be left untouched.

[Northern Exploration]

The good thing about those style of Service Centres is that both sides get access to the same places. One of those was a life saver one year on a marathon drive from Toronto to Winterpeg during an ice storm in late March . The only challenge I see is with both sides of the road needing parking and then the outlets themselves over the road does take up a lot of room.

Must be one of Murphy's Law but the other side of the road always seems to have the places you prefer when you want them. If you have to make a washroom stop then there will be a service centre on the other side of the road and not yours. If you want a Starbucks it will be on the other side and Timmies on yours, and vice versa.

The New York State Thruway has good service centres with 6 or 7 different outlets all in one building with good choices. In Ontario the Service Centres go to the highest bidder. So naturally if McDonalds kicks in the bucks for one they prevent anyone else from opening there. Scotts (had KFC master francise for the area) also has Timmies, Wendys, Mr. Sub and KFC all together. So at least you have a choice. Service Centres on the 401 between Toronto and Montreal, have become less necessary with exits having so many choices now with a number of cities/towns in a row about a half hour to 45 minutes appart.

To keep people coming to the service centres it seems like they try to keep prices a little lower than the gas stations at times, so a bit of price war starts.

[WettCoast]

I am surprised no one on here - yet - has noted that while it will be less expensive to travel between the Lower Mainland and the southern interior, the cost of traveling to Vancouver Island, or anywhere on the coast that requires ferry access, continues to increase in large increments several times per year. Some are suggesting that the government is playing favourites with different parts of the province, gouging some while giving to others.

The following is typical of 'viewer' comments (i.e. 'feed back') left on the CBC's web page coverage of this story.
www.cbc.ca/canada/british-columbia/story/2008/09/27/bc-coquihalla-tolls-reax.html#socialcomments

Of course this is also very much about politics and has a political angle, the core of the Lib's support is from the interior, that's also why there are also no
' tolls' on the inland ferries. That's right, Kootenay Lake, the longest free ferry ride in the world. I guess diesel is free in the interior... lucky them.

While here in NDP land...the granola crunching left coast Islanders get nailed by the government agent BC Ferries who keeps jacking up the 'tolls'..."make the scum who voted NDP pay" the Libs will say.

[Scott]

I was thinking the same thing, WCK. Here the government is getting rid of a toll when there are other options, but doing nothing as the ferry fare go up every few months and there is no alternative.

I don't really care much about the Coquihalla Highway... when I do go to the Interior, about once a year, I go via other routes because I'm not in a hurry most of the time. I don't avoid the Coquihalla because of the toll so much as I like the slower, more scenic routes.

That being said, I guess it's a good thing... except for the 30? or so people who probably lost a good job. I heard the mayor of Merritt sounding happy that the tolls were being closed... but I don't think it'll make a difference, other than his town losing a couple dozen good jobs. And a service center up there would be bad for Merritt too.

[DENelson83]

The news reported that those people who were collecting the tolls won't actually lose their jobs.

[Scott]

Interesting? Did they say what they'd do instead?

[WettCoast]

When coming from the 'north' the Coquihalla is actually the long way around. Traveling directly from Cache Creek to Hope via the Thompson & Fraser Canyons is the route that I take most often. Once every couple of years I will take the Duffy Lake road (Hwy 99), Whistler's 'back door'.*

The TCH - Highway 1 - route via the Thompson & Fraser is, in my opinion, far more scenic and interesting than the Coquihalla. Among other things there are always trains to see, and then there is the splendid canyon country scenery.

* When making a round trip south I usually drive in preference to flying. I used to always like doing one leg of the trip by the Inside Passage ferry. However, the cost now, even in the off season, makes doing that much less attractive. I do have an option so I elect to save my money and take the long drive around via Prince George.

[DENelson83]

The Coquihalla actually contributes to the shortest land connection between Calgary and Vancouver.

[WettCoast]

The Premier, Gordon Campbell, had this to say re the Coquihalla...

It... has become the foundation for a transportation network that has opened up Canada's Pacific Gateway to North America and the rest of the world.

I am fairly certain that about 90 percent of the freight heading to and from the Port of Vancouver is moving on the railways, and that means the Fraser Canyon. CN & CP together move about 60 trains per day through the canyon.

Truck traffic also remains substantial through the canyon route. I know that the volume of truck traffic through the canyon was greater than that moving over the Coquihalla. I do not know if that remains true.

[Scott]

Sept 27, 2008 19:07:21 GMT -8 DENelson83 said:

The news reported that those people who were collecting the tolls won't actually lose their jobs.

From the Vancouver Sun:

Sandy Tsang, an employee at Merritt's Canada Café, said it's good news.

But she said she's worried about what will happen to the many locals who work at the toll booths. Toll operators were instructed not to talk to the media Friday.

Campbell assured reporters after the speech that all permanent employees will be found new jobs with government.

So they'll probably get offers of government jobs in Kamloops or Prince George if they want to move there. Doesn't help Merritt any.

Not that I'm saying that they should keep the tolls just so these people could keep their jobs. It's just an aspect of the story I'm not hearing much about and I wonder what kind of impact it will have on the little town. Maybe it's not even an issue.. we'll see.

[Nick]

As has been mentioned already, I wonder if an election is approaching?

I'll bet that come next spring, if the Campbell government is still in power (most likely, in my opinion) the tolls will come back. They'll give a reason like high maintenance costs or something like that, but the reality is that they'll miss that extra revenue.

[Dane]

I know a toll booth worker, I'll try and keep the forum advised to what happens to them. She's also an Army Reservist so I only see her on occasion.

[Deleted]

Sept 27, 2008 19:30:26 GMT -8 WettCoast said:

When coming from the 'north' the Coquihalla is actually the long way around. Traveling directly from Cache Creek to Hope via the Thompson & Fraser Canyons is the route that I take most often. Once every couple of years I will take the Duffy Lake road (Hwy 99), Whistler's 'back door'.*

The TCH - Highway 1 - route via the Thompson & Fraser is, in my opinion, far more scenic and interesting than the Coquihalla. Among other things there are always trains to see, and then there is the splendid canyon country scenery.

* When making a round trip south I usually drive in preference to flying. I used to always like doing one leg of the trip by the Inside Passage ferry. However, the cost now, even in the off season, makes doing that much less attractive. I do have an option so I elect to save my money and take the long drive around via Prince George.

The Canyon route is shorter for much of the north, but depending on exactly where you're coming from (or going to), it's not necessarily quicker.

We have a place near Bridge Lake, which is on Hwy. 24 near the halfway point between 93 Mile House (Hwy. 97) and Little Fort (Hwy. 5). While going the Canyon is technically a little shorter (especially if we go out through Green Lake to 70 Mile House), the Coq. route is up to an hour faster.

In reality for us, there's not a big difference in distance - according to Google Maps, it's 470km to go via the Coq., 466km via the Canyon, and 500km via the Duffy Lake Road. Granted, that's out to Pitt Meadows - if you live in Vancouver proper or somewhere a little farther west, coming down through Pemberton can save a fair bit of driving and avoid a lot of traffic

[Northern Exploration]

On my list of things to do is a round trip from Vancouver to Calgary and Edmonton. Like I said I never seem to have the time though to do it. Coquihalla one way and the canyon the other. I have many good memories of those routes and would love to see some favourite things again and just to see how it has changed. Winter the trip can be cool as well but also a real challenge.

[Balfour]

I remember when I was 11 my family did a trip up to Barkerville. We completely avoided the Coquihalla Highway because my dad wanted to take us on the scenic routes. We went up via the Duffy Lake Road, then took the Fraser Canyon back to Vancouver.

The Coquihalla is awesome if you want to get to the Okanagan fast or if you're making the haul to Calgary in one day. The issue for trucks are the steep grades and I think that is why many trucks opt to take Highway 1 through the Fraser Canyon.

[Nickfro]

I personally don't like the removal of the Coquihalla tolls. They have been a significant source of government revenue and would continue to do so. On the same line as comparing them to the gouging that happens with ferry fares, the toll rate to me is fair. . .even for people that may deem themselves as 'commuters' between the interior and south coast.

I travel on the Coquihalla at least 5 times (round trip) per year. That's $100, and I have no problem paying that amount. That's usually a very small fraction of the cost for wherever I'm going. Now, consider when they institute a toll on the new twinned Port Mann Bridge at $3 per shot. This, in my mind, is where they are looking to generate more revenue than the Coq. I can't fathom a toll booth (or even an automated tolling system) on the main freeway in Greater Vancouver. It's ridiculous. That would frustrate me way more than the Coquihalla tolls and I can't imagine commuters enjoying paying $30 per week just to use that bridge to get to and from work. First it's the Golden Ears, then the Port Mann, then the Pattullo. . .the next thing we know, every bridge in the lower mainland will have a toll system on it!

My feeling is that the Liberals will act quickly to demolish the Coquihalla toll booths to prove that tolls will never exist again on that route.

On the topic of freight, many trucks tend to take the Fraser Canyon not as much to avoid the $50 toll levy, but it's easier on their rigs to travel on a highway with gradual hills alongside the river than to huff up steep hills and work the brakes down those hills. Maybe Hardy can share some insight on this. (I don't know what size truck you drive Hardy, so if I'm off track on this, sorry!)

Lastly, on the topic of enjoying slower, more scenic drives, I often like to avoid the north half of the Coquihalla and take the old Highway 5A between Merritt and Kamloops. It only takes about 15 mins longer than Hwy 5 and is a much more scenic road thru the Nicola Valley, past Nicola Lake and Quilchena.

[WettCoast]

The toll booth employees have, apparently been let go. Almost all of these people are Merritt residents. This according to a feature this morning on the CBC Radio program Daybreak South. Not only that, there was apparently no communication with them. They found out about the 'change' from passing motorists laughing at them and refusing to pay tolls around about noon last Friday.

It is fairly clear that Premier Campbell thought this move up twenty minutes or so prior to his Friday morning speech. Want more evidence - during the previous summer renovations were made to the toll booth plaza at a cost of $100,000+ to keep it in business for some time to come. Now they are to be bulldozed.

[Ferryman]

I travelled on the Coquilhalla 7 times between May and August, and am about to do it again in a week or so. I'm glad that the tolls have been removed, as they really fouled up the last time I went up there on Labour Day weekend. It took over an hour just to go through the toll booths, after having to go via Agassiz to get to Hope, instead of taking the #1 due to a flood. The Coquilhalla is supposed to be my fastest route of getting to Kelowna to visit my folks with a travel time of 5.5 hours. The other routes going via the Duffy Lake Road, Crowsnest Highway all the way to Osoyoos, or the Hope-Princeton and then up to Merrit all take between 6 to 7.5 hours to do. I'm usually all wound up from the drive through Vancouver, that I'm just desperate to get there once I get to Hope, the Coquilhalla is the route of choice. But, there will still be a toll on the Port Mann bridge, Golden Ears Bridge, and new Patullo Bridge in the future. All of those crossings are on the Fraser River, so perhaps going via Highway 7 to Mission will be my route of choice to avoid the tolls. heh heh heh...

[Mill Bay]

Oct 1, 2008 22:00:05 GMT -8 WettCoast said:

The toll booth employees have, apparently been let go. Almost all of these people are Merritt residents. This according to a feature this morning on the CBC Radio program Daybreak South. Not only that, there was apparently no communication with them. They found out about the 'change' from passing motorists laughing at them and refusing to pay tolls around about noon last Friday.

It is fairly clear that Premier Campbell thought this move up twenty minutes or so prior to his Friday morning speech. Want more evidence - during the previous summer renovations were made to the toll booth plaza at a cost of $100,000+ to keep it in business for some time to come. Now they are to be bulldozed.

Tell me again why we can't demand this arrogant little infant's resignation...? If that is true, then he should be indicted for defrauding the people of B.C.... But I wouldn't wait to see them bull-dozed. If he wins another election, they will suddenly be in use again.

[Ferryman]

In case anyone wanted to see what it looks like with out the toll booths....Here it is, as of last Saturday.

[Hardy]

Okay, I was asked for it, so here's my take on things:

a) More trucks on the Canyon (Hwy-1) than the Coq (Hwy-5) --yes'n'no. Depending on where they are going, of course. All the 'garbage trucks' headed for Trash Creek obviously go the Canyon. If you are heading for Lillooet, 160-km, Bills Puddle, PG etc then you'd be silly to go anything but Hwy-1;

b) Avoiding the Coq -- I generally drive 5-ton or 7-ton trucks -- those are the 24-28' box vans used for small-medium house moves, household deliveries, general freight etc. Single-rear-axle, GVW of up to 15000kg. Think Sears/Brick/Future Shop deliveries - total length about 35-38', 12'-13'6" tall. Holds 1500 cubic feet or about a full 3bdrm house. Some drivers avoid the Coq, either because of the grades (which aren't REALLY that bad, unless you have a really slammed full load, a gutless truck or a combination of both), or because of road conditions. I have done a run to Calgary with a similarly loaded truck taking each route and compared it (had the same truck both times). I personally found the drive out the Canyon 'better' insofar as less up and down grades, but there are less passing opportunities due to the fact that a lot of the Canyon is single-laned. Get stuck behind one slow mover and you are hooped. Overall travel time by truck via the Canyon going out loaded was about 1-1.25 hours longer than taking the Coq. Running back to Vancouver empty (or almost empty) the difference was a little less, 50-60 mins slower via the Canyon route. The Coq does have better cell phone coverage (or crack-berry). The Canyon is far more scenic. Truck traffic seems split to me, but it all depends on when you compare, both in terms of time-of-day, and also time-of-year. I tend to try to do my travel early morning (like leaving the Lower Mainland at 0330 if I am headed to Kelowna for a same-day unload).

If anyone wants more details or explanations, feel free to ask. I don't mind sharing my insights.

As an aside: everyone seems to say that Hwy-x or Hwy-y is dangerous and unsafe -- I have driven most of these highways -- usually they don't seem unsafe to me, unless you are not paying attention to your driving and/or don't know how to drive properly. Ever want to learn how to keep your car with the rubber-side down and the shiny-side up? Go for a ride with a PROFESSIONAL truck driver, watch some in-car NASCAR action, or take a real accreditted professional safe driving course. You'll learn a lot that seems common sense: driving is a job/responsibility - PAY ATTENTION/FOCUS! Scan the road, 50-300' ahead at all times - watch what other traffic is doing, scan ahead for obstacles turns etc. Set your speed BEFORE entering a corner, accelerate slightly through it to keep power down to the wheels to PULL through the corner - never brake hard right IN a corner (think running on ice in sneakers - don't change direction or stop/start suddenly or you'll land on your arse!). Smooth calculated thought-out actions. Match road/driving conditions to your driving style. Keep your vehicle in good shape. Keep windows/mirrors clean. USE YOUR MIRRORS. Be aware of traffic ahead, oncoming, beside and behind. Duh .....