Neil
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Post by Neil on Oct 30, 2008 16:33:24 GMT -8
Someone correct me if I am wrong but WMG was asked to bid and didn't respond. If we went wayyyy back this was all discussed when the order was placed. And again when the Coastal Renaissance was delivered. I don't recall which thread it was. They obviously felt that either the order was beyond them, or they were making enough profit on their existing scheduled business or someone's yacht needed the dry dock space . Not so. WMG did submit a bid, or at least, an expression of interest, of which this was the result: www.bcshipyardworkers.com/news/april21_04.htmlAllied Shipbuilders, and Vancouver Shipyards (WMG) also participated in a tour of their facilities, conducted by the shipyard workers union, designed to show that the boats could indeed be built here. WMG CEO Steve Frasher also disputed BC Ferries' claim that his company could not successfully pull off the contract. Why didn't they protest the exclusion of their firm from the bidding process more vociferously? Maybe, as you say, they were happy enough to keep doing what they were doing, and wanted an amicable relationship with BC Ferries. Jumping to the conclusion that the bid was rigged is as much as a leap as my last suggested possibility above. We simply don't know. You're right, and I didn't present it as a conclusion, just a suspicion.
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Post by Dane on Oct 30, 2008 21:43:49 GMT -8
I'll be to the point - I'm too tired for a lengthy post I don't think the bid was rigged. Quality, low price, warranty, known brand, potential for meaningful long term support, modern facilities. All areas FSG exceeds in. Yes, BC could but we don't. It's not the role of a private company to develop the industry. Don't take this as me saying the vessels shouldn't or couldn't have been built here, but I fail to see how BCFS would see there role as one promoting revitalization. The Island Sky is over half a year late; hasn't been delivered, no training, and a couple of confirmed quality issues already. Thank goodness they didn't get the Coastal contract.
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D'Elete BC in NJ
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Post by D'Elete BC in NJ on Oct 31, 2008 4:10:03 GMT -8
...It's not the role of a private company to develop the industry. Don't take this as me saying the vessels shouldn't or couldn't have been built here, but I fail to see how BCFS would see there role as one promoting revitalization... Oh, how heartily one could disagree with that first statement. Without private companies taking the initiative to grow markets and develop industry, you wouldn't have a free market economy. It is the basis of capitalism, to assess or create market demands, and provide services to fulfill those demands. The fact that WMG either choose to submit a half-hearted bid proposal, or was unable to provide pricing of a competitive nature against the other bids was their own choice or failing...however the cards actually fell out. You are correct in saying it is unlikely BCFS would choose a role as an industry builder, but I think this is more a result of their mandate, not a well-rounded business decision. In my opinion, they would be well served by an investment in the local ship building industry as it would result in a more stable and robust workforce, ensure availability of repair facilities, and likely reduce overall maintenance costs. In this way, BCFS would be well served by promoting revitalization. But BCFS's job is to run ships, and not invest in industry infrastructure outside their purview.
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Post by Dane on Oct 31, 2008 8:32:43 GMT -8
BC Ferries doesn't, nor will they ever in the foreseeable future have the ability or need to take delivery of a large amount of vessels.
The Federal Government's half-hearted plans for the Coast Guard are basically the last hope for shipbuilding and the public sector on the West Coast. Even the Navy has people in Europe right now looking for new Supply vessels.
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D'Elete BC in NJ
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Post by D'Elete BC in NJ on Oct 31, 2008 9:11:43 GMT -8
BC Ferries doesn't, nor will they ever in the foreseeable future have the ability or need to take delivery of a large amount of vessels. I'm feeling you missed my point. Just because BCFS does not have a requirement for the ship building services of the local yards does not imply they would not benefit from increasing the volume of business conducted by the yards, especially if they were to make an investment in them. Cash, pure and simple, injected into the yards, no orders needed. Provide the yards with the capital needed to improve their infrastructure and competitiveness. As an investment, this could eventually pay off in two ways, both in the return on investment, and also by providing local, competitive and competent yards which BCFS could then realistically approach for bids. Not that this is likely to happen, as you pointed out, and it is, in my opinion, outside their prescribed doctrine. But, all in all, it is still a prudent business move as diversification is typically a wise choice.
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Post by Dane on Oct 31, 2008 9:16:14 GMT -8
I didn't miss your point, I just think injecting cash into something that will not receive wide public sector support in an industry which is essentially defendant on that is not particularly fiscally responsible.
There would appear to be very little market for us to tap into.
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D'Elete BC in NJ
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Post by D'Elete BC in NJ on Oct 31, 2008 11:00:57 GMT -8
I didn't miss your point, I just think injecting cash into something that will not receive wide public sector support in an industry which is essentially defendant on that is not particularly fiscally responsible. There would appear to be very little market for us to tap into. ...and BCFS injecting money isn't public support?... ;D Seriously though, IMO, the shipbuilding industry is broken in BC because they have been so dependent on government support and contracts (hmmmm....leads me to wonder what started this thread in the first place). This is a problem in many areas...look at the airline industry (construction and transportation) and their woes. Years at the teat have left them woefully unprepared to stand on their own. Unfortunately, government contracts seem to carry a lot of fat, and companies get bloated and inefficient because of it. The system is broken and other countries have take advantage of it to our detriment. I think you are mistaken, the market is out there, global trade is dependent on it. But the money to get into the fray can't come from just the government. It has to come from the private sector where people are more aggressive, with cutthroat accountants, and lawyers that bill by the hour , and want to see efficiency and results. Deals will need to be cut with employees to encourage them to dig deep and perform and the unions are going to have to learn to make accommodations. Will people get hurt? Maybe. Is everyone going to sign on? I doubt it. Is it fiscally responsible? I don't know. But if the shipyards are going to become competitive again, they are going to have to lean out and learn new tricks and they are going to need the support of the local shipping industry. Hey, it's just my two cents...
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Mill Bay
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Post by Mill Bay on Nov 25, 2008 20:59:55 GMT -8
[QC] Islanders to get ferry discount in February By Alex Rinfret-- The provincial government's seat sale on ferry fares will be extended for an extra month for the Skidegate-Prince Rupert route only, Transportation Minister Kevin Falcon announced Tuesday. The 33 percent reduction on ferry rates, announced last month by Premier Gordon Campbell, goes into effect from Dec. 1 until the end of January. But because ferry service between the mainland and Haida Gwaii is suspended for all of January, the government has decided to give islanders an additional month of reduced fares. "We are going to extend it right through to the end of February on that run," Mr. Falcon told the Observer Tuesday afternoon in a telephone interview from Victoria. "We don't want to penalize people," the minister said. January sailings have been cancelled so that the Skidegate dock can be renovated in anticipation of the arrival of the new Northern Expedition ferry this spring. BC Ferries plans to transport freight by barge and passengers by plane during that month. The provincial government is spending $20-million on the two-month fare reduction, part of a 10-point plan to respond to global economic turmoil. article created November 25, 2008 12:50 PM The Queen Charlotte Islands Observer www.qciobserver.com/Article.aspx?Id=3583
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Post by Low Light Mike on Feb 2, 2009 18:48:21 GMT -8
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Mill Bay
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Post by Mill Bay on Feb 3, 2009 11:22:34 GMT -8
Note to Gordon Campbell... it takes more than a two month subsidy to save BC's economy from global recession.
Note to Deborah Marshall... heavy snowfall is not the reason people didn't take advantage of your big sail.
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Post by Low Light Mike on Feb 21, 2009 12:41:33 GMT -8
We have experienced a decrease in traffic in all three quarters of fiscal 2009 compared to the same period in the prior year. Vehicle traffic was 7.6% lower in the third quarter (5.1% yearto- date) and passenger traffic was 5.9% lower (4.5% year-to-date).
These reductions are due at least in part to the declines in the British Columbia and local economies experienced this year. We believe that the decreasing level of economic activity, rising unemployment, reduced consumer confidence and higher vehicle fuel prices earlier this fiscal year, have all negatively impacted our commercial and discretionary travel markets. In addition, in the month of December, traditionally a busy month, we experienced a decrease of 10% in traffic mainly due to severe weather. For three weeks, our service areas were faced with high winds, record snowfalls, black ice, freezing rain and impassable roads.
------------- On December 19, 2008, a fare reduction and service restoration agreement was made with the Province to provide $19.6 million in funding to allow a 33% reduction on fares for all routes during the months of December 2008 and January 2009 and for our Prince Rupert-Skidegate route during February 2009. Fares were reduced and, in December, $10.9 million was recorded in tariff revenue. This fare reduction was expected to stimulate traffic; however, traffic in December was negatively impacted by three weeks of severe weather conditions.
Above quote is from BCFS 12/31/2008 MD&A report. Just in case you wanted the official company word on the Campbell-sale.
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