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Post by hergfest on Jul 20, 2007 18:56:49 GMT -8
It has been my understanding that the V-Class capacity is different just because of the platforms, which they don't use anymore. So I would assume that the Esquimalt's 286 vehicle capacity would be the same as the other two, because they are basicly identical.
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Post by blackshadow on Jul 20, 2007 20:16:56 GMT -8
Esquimalt's platforms can not be used. They require $250 000 in repairs just to get a certifcation. BCFS was planning to removed them but it cost $175 000. Esquimalt will be heading to Turkey from I have been hearing early next year to be scaped.
The other two ladies will be around next year. One for sure be in use. There is a problem with the scheduling of third coastal class arrival. There isn't enough time to do convertion work, crew training and be in full operation by July 1st. There shouldn't be another time next summer as to what we seen last weekend. Management knows there will be some issue with new vessel. Not saying there is problem with workmanship but just fact of new ship and green crew. Growing pains.
Again I remind you all, Esquimalt is the only vessel being scaped or done away with when coastal class arrive. THERE ARE BIG PLANS IN THE WORKS. I hear many tails, but to what will be done, I am not sure.
Here at BCFS the only for sure is change.
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Post by Hardy on Jul 21, 2007 4:20:04 GMT -8
Here at BCFS the only for sure is change. The truth has never been more clearly and concisely stated! Thanks for the insight re: QoEsq and the actual numbers attached to real problems. When the dollars and cents of an issue such as that are presented, then the age factor of the ship versus it's retirement date from revenue service make more sense than without!
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Post by BreannaF on Jul 21, 2007 13:21:25 GMT -8
It is useful to remember that, even though it has been mentioned recently in another thread that we can't even tell the darned V's apart, these ships have each lead different lives and they have different problems and histories. In other words, even though they are all the "same", it certainly may make sense to give up on one boat before the others have ended their useful lives. On the other hand, since we seem to be a herd of ferry geeks here, I'll start the stopwatch....... NOW to see who will be the first one to start a futile "save the Esquimalt" campaign.
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Post by Balfour on Jul 21, 2007 14:06:32 GMT -8
I can tell you that I won't be starting a save the Esquimalt campaign considering she's the most run down of all the V's but I think it's good that Graham has a tribute to her now that we know she'll be the first V to be scrapped besides the Vicky.
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Post by Northern Exploration on Jul 21, 2007 14:28:16 GMT -8
My brother was on a business trip to the lower mainland and called me last night just as the Surrey was leaving Langdale. He wanted to rub it in that he was there and I was here and so that I could hear the ferry's horn. He had a one sailing wait to go over to Langdale in the morning (too early to have fish and chips from Trolls) and ended up taking the Esquimault. He was shocked in the shape she was in. Badly needing painting, says she smelled old and mouldy etc. I told him they aren't spending any money on her because she is going to be replaced soon. He asked a member of the crew and they said she was being scrapped soon so not a penny was being spent. When we lived in BC he was pretty young to have many memories of the V Class. He mostly remembers the Spirits and the 4 C's.
On a side note this was his first time in Gibson's. He asked me if he had been there when he was really young because he thought it was familiar. He laughed when I told him it was because of the Beachcombers. He wasn't there very long but really liked it.
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Post by Hardy on Jul 21, 2007 19:14:28 GMT -8
One of the problems that contributes greatly to the moldy smell is the "encapsulated" rust that accumulates when surfaces are not scrapped/ground down before more paint is applied as a cosmetic bandaid. As has been stated, they've only done bare-bones on the Esquimalt because of her impending end of service life. It is really too bad ... in the grand scheme of things.
As is the axoim in the trucking business, a little PM (preventative maintenance) goes a long way to avoiding breakdown costs. WRT trucking, you have the towing bill, the downtime (lost revenue) and then the darn repair anyways, that you should have done as PM!! This generally ends up being a bill two-to-three times as high as if you had done the PM in the first place.
Nevermind the lost time and any rental costs that you have to have to do a stop-gap .... this is not viable in the ferry sector, but this can get you up to over 4x the cost of the PM in a hurry.
My point -- perhaps if they had spent $200k in maintenance some years back (such as paint...) then perhaps we wouldn't be talking about how she looks like such a bucket of p#$$.
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Post by Hardy on Jul 21, 2007 19:36:13 GMT -8
On the other hand, since we seem to be a herd of ferry geeks here, I'll start the stopwatch....... NOW to see who will be the first one to start a futile "save the Esquimalt" campaign. I believe that you have hit the nail on the head ... It is a FUTILE effort at this point, as she is too far gone to rehab. It is sad when a company lets its assets deteriorate to this state.
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Post by Political Incorrectness on Jul 21, 2007 19:44:20 GMT -8
It is sad but at least we shall have the B Class to admire for a bit longer, yet I dislike the interior jobs and I loved the old interiors. I was thankful to go on the Burnaby last year to see an old interior of the V's.
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Post by blackshadow on Jul 21, 2007 20:21:22 GMT -8
I must say it is very hard to do PM work on the Esquimalt. I spend many nights trying to just do PM work when I had to drop everything go repair thing (most of the tiime stopping her from sinking herself) . You were talking about smells: none of one have said about smell of something die in the galley . The smell is going from area under on the display cabinets on starboard side. There is no way to get to it without ripping it all apart or coughing up your cookies a few times. It is that bad. The smell in passenger are is mould from all the water leaking in thought the swiss cheese steel. It is scarey what the decks look like . It was not lack of PM, it was fact is never had a full time crew aboard, being toss from terminal to terminal. Sometimes with no one aboard. She was like many others were the result of cost over runs on the fact cats. Lots of money many were taken for the ships to paid for fast cats. The fact is BCFS is now in the biggest catch up game and Esquimalt is the loser .
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Post by Scott on Jul 21, 2007 21:58:56 GMT -8
I've heard the same story about other ships that didn't have a regular route and crew. I wonder which one of the C-class ships will end up being "tossed" around like that... probably the Coquitlam and the Cowichan.
Interesting how some ships stay on one route for years and years... they're well taken care of, in some places they become locally "legendary"... while other ferries, even sister ships, do just as much work or more and no one really even notices.
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Post by Low Light Mike on Jul 21, 2007 22:06:06 GMT -8
I think that the Queen of Coquitlam has already been "designated" the poor-sister of her class. For those same reasons as the Esquimalt (ie. working different routes as the spare....rented-mule), and also as she was the 1st to get her MLU, so the most time has passed since, for her.
And she's only approx 10 years younger than the Esquimalt....so in 2017 maybe we'll be planning 1 last trip on the Coquitlam ?
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Post by Northern Exploration on Jul 22, 2007 6:20:40 GMT -8
Sounds like grease has leaked under the cabinets and rotted. It can get in cracks etc. - someone just had to spill the fat from the deepfryer when they are changing it. I know a friend bought a restaurant and had to rip out a floor to get rid of a similar smell. The old Esq sounds in really bad shape. I could tell by the last sets of pictures she was hurting but wow.
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Post by hergfest on Jul 22, 2007 7:06:40 GMT -8
The Esquimalt at the least will do MDS sailings after Labor Day. BC Ferries always cuts back sailings after Labor Day and the Esquimalt has to run on Fridays and Sundays.
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Post by Retrovision on Jul 22, 2007 7:16:31 GMT -8
The Esquimalt at the least will do MDS sailings after Labor Day. BC Ferries always cuts back sailings after Labor Day and the Esquimalt has to run on Fridays and Sundays. you know it
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Post by markkarj on Jul 22, 2007 11:17:37 GMT -8
Esquimalt's platforms can not be used. They require $250 000 in repairs just to get a certifcation. BCFS was planning to removed them but it cost $175 000. Esquimalt will be heading to Turkey from I have been hearing early next year to be scaped. The other two ladies will be around next year. One for sure be in use. There is a problem with the scheduling of third coastal class arrival. There isn't enough time to do convertion work, crew training and be in full operation by July 1st. There shouldn't be another time next summer as to what we seen last weekend. Management knows there will be some issue with new vessel. Not saying there is problem with workmanship but just fact of new ship and green crew. Growing pains. Again I remind you all, Esquimalt is the only vessel being scaped or done away with when coastal class arrive. THERE ARE BIG PLANS IN THE WORKS. I hear many tails, but to what will be done, I am not sure. Hi again: A couple of quick questions: 1) In terms of the Esquimalt's end, why send the ship to Turkey? Has BC Ferries reached an agreement with a yard to scrap her? I understand Alang has been the target of scorn among Greenpeace and other groups. 2) How long does it typically take to train a crew on a new ship? Are the functions of the Coastal class ships substantially different than the Vs or Cs in terms of new systems? 3) Why would the Esquimalt be in such worse shape than the other Vs? From a layperson's perspective, I thought it would make sense to try to distribute the wear and tear fairly evenly among the ships, and keep them on a consistent maintenance schedule.
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Post by Balfour on Jul 22, 2007 11:54:46 GMT -8
In regards to your third question, it makes sense distribute the wear and tear evenly but it hasn't happened. The Queen of Esquimalt hasn't seen as many service hours and therefore a lot less maintenance compared to her sisters since the Spirits entered service. For the most part, she spends her winters sitting in Berth 1 at Departure Bay being rained on and alone without anyone on board, where as the Queens of Saanich and Vancouver, are still used a fair amount during the winter filling in for Spirits when needed and of course the Queen of Vancouver fills in on Route 30 as well.
During the Summer the Vancouver and Saanich do full days every day, but the Queen of Esquimalt on route 3 only does sailings here and there and spends the rest of her time laid over.
In terms of the ships condition in relation to her sister's, the Saanich was refurbished in 1996 and is still in great shape and she does a fair amount of service on route 1 during the winter and the Queen of Vancouver also sees more maintenance because she's always fills in for a Spirit during refit and for Route 30 during a normal refit of one of the Regulars. The Queen of Esquimalt will normally see service in the winter if another ship breaks down.
The point I'm making is less service hours=less maintenance.
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Post by markkarj on Jul 22, 2007 13:06:14 GMT -8
For the most part, she spends her winters sitting in Berth 1 at Departure Bay being rained on and alone without anyone on board So are you saying she's being scrapped due to a broken heart?
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Post by Balfour on Jul 22, 2007 13:19:37 GMT -8
I'd hate to say it, but I think you're right...
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Post by Political Incorrectness on Jul 22, 2007 15:56:31 GMT -8
In my opinion, I would not send her to the scrap yard right away, I think that a few more years can be squeezed out of her. During the next summer rush, they could possibly use her as a fourth vessel on Departure Bay to Horseshoe Bay or just keep her out of Langdale for another year. Perhaps have her as a 3rd vessel on Tsawwassen to Duke Point for Friday and Sunday traffic. There are many possibilities since Duke Point has had quite a few waits these past weekends, in fact, there is a 2 sail wait for over-heights out of Duke Point right now. I believe there is a slim chance but it is no likely. Just my 2 cents worth.
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Post by Low Light Mike on Jul 22, 2007 17:11:50 GMT -8
The point I'm making is less service hours=less maintenance. This seems counter-intuitive at first, as you'd think that less service-hours means a less worn-out ship, ie. a better-shape ship. However, I think what actually happens is because she's not a regularly used ship, there's never the impetus to do much of the small bits of maintenance required. And so the list of items-needing-repair has been steadily growing, resulting in the tired-looking ship. So she's not worn-out from too many hours of service. It's because she's the spare "rented mule" that she is treated poorly. If a regular-service ship needs something done repair/maintenance wise, it will be done for that ship, before the Esquimalt. I suppose it's been that way ever since 1994, when the 2 Kermode ferries were first in-service together on Route-1. That's 13 years of being without a regular route. ------------------- Something that I'm curious about: Does WSF have a ship that's similar to Esquimalt, re this lack-of-maintenance issue? I know that there are laid-up ships that came into service this year, but it sounds like these are long-term layups. I'm wondering if WSF has ships that serve in spurts during the year, but never have a home-route....ie. that are always the spare, that's passed around. If so, has that ship become neglected in maintenance?
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Post by Political Incorrectness on Jul 22, 2007 18:49:31 GMT -8
WSF could, I would have to check the shape of the Kitsap since she has been thrown around but for a few months at a time by route. She is usually a relief vessel at Fauntleroy, Vashon, Southworth this time of year to add some extra capacity. This year, that did not happen and she had been displaced at Mukliteo-Clinton route this time.
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Post by Mac Write on Jul 22, 2007 21:02:32 GMT -8
Next Summer BC Ferries will have 2 extra ferries, Saanich+Vancouver once the 3 Coastals arrive. That should keep us in shape, Or will it be three (will the new Intermediate be ready next summer?). So loosing the Equimult won't be a problem come to arrival of the first Coastal in December, then as the next two arrive BCF will have two extra ferries in their ranks.
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Post by Balfour on Jul 22, 2007 21:04:08 GMT -8
Hourly service on route 2 could be a possibility as it is necessary in the summer.
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Post by nolonger on Aug 13, 2007 20:19:02 GMT -8
Cut and pasted from todays BCFMWU web site, the latest on the Super C's,
" He says....confirmed
1st one is going to Route 2 Ex Departure Bay 2nd on to route 30 Ex Tsaw 3rd one to Route 2 Ex Horseshoe bay
The New West is getting a 50 million $$ refit and going to Route 1"
"He" being Central Region Operations manager.
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