Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 11, 2006 11:49:40 GMT -8
her bridge is so far forwards compard to the qont...
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Post by EGfleet on Aug 15, 2006 10:12:00 GMT -8
I keep checking the news via google--daily, in fact--to see when BC Ferries is going to annouce, officially, that they've picked up the Sonia. (Or Sonia X as the case seems to be now.)
After stating it would be officially annouced that they'd have more to say in " a few weeks" they've been awfully quiet about it, even though everyone seems to know the deal has been made. I wonder why?
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Post by WettCoast on Aug 15, 2006 18:32:30 GMT -8
Maybe they are having second thoughts, as perhaps they should be.
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Post by Curtis on Aug 15, 2006 19:19:20 GMT -8
We'll Never know till it's Announced Officially.
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Post by yvr on Aug 16, 2006 9:45:21 GMT -8
For those of you interested in viewing interior pictures of the Sonia, may I suggest you go to "Balearia.com" A press release states that as of April 16 she will be sailing from Barcelona to Ibiza. Perhaps some of our members can locate web cams in those two cities to see if she's still in active service.
One photo shows a lounge with very low back, night club style chairs. No back support seating is very uncomfortable for the long voyages on the north coast.
(BCF - hope your taking notes)
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Koastal Karl
Voyager 
Been on every BC Ferry now!!!!!
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Post by Koastal Karl on Aug 16, 2006 19:03:09 GMT -8
hmm, she dosent look that bad inside. Those cabins look interesting.
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Post by EGfleet on Aug 17, 2006 10:30:17 GMT -8
As much as I hate posting a half link, while doing a search through "B.C. Ferries" in google under the news tab, an interesting little thing popped up, linked to the Queen Charlotte Islands Observer (page 3 of the google news search if you do a "sort by date) from August 11th: No ferry bought yet, despite rumours
Queen Charlotte Islands Observer, Canada - Aug 11, 2006
There's no truth to the rumour that BC Ferries has concluded the deal to buy the “Sonia” as a replacement ferry for the Queen of the North. ... Here's the link to the story, but, alas, the entire website seems to be down at the moment. www.qciobserver.com/articles.aspx?article=2274 |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 17, 2006 18:23:25 GMT -8
it would be best to probably for when it comes to a shipyard here to put a bow door on her don't you think  |
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Post by yvr on Aug 17, 2006 20:11:08 GMT -8
Sonia - maybe, Nisos Mykonos - maybe, Atlantic Traveler - maybe
On radio station CKNW this evening David Hahn was commenting about the replacement ferry. As of today no ferry has been purchased. They have one vessel in mind, but if the deal cannot be made, they have option "B" which is their second choice. He mentioned the replacement will take 1200 passengers and have at least 70 cabins. Also, the in service price will exceed the $69 million BCF received from the QON insurance settlement. He expects the deal to be made in the next week.
My translation: The Greeks are playing hard ball on the price. They know we're desperate, so they're squeezing Hahn for every penny they can get. Lets hope we get the right vessel. I can only hope they've done the math for not only the initial purchase price, but the annual operating expenses.
Perhaps we should tell all the potential sellers - no thanks. Then lease a ship for 2 years until we can get one built to our specs. Perhaps Cascade has an idea what a new Sonia / Nisos would cost to build - if we ordered "3" not "2".
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Post by WettCoast on Aug 17, 2006 20:37:37 GMT -8
On another thread a few days ago I wrote the following... BCFS is buying the Sonia so information on the Nissos Mykonos is now simply of academic interest. For information on this ship go to the following Swedish language website: www.faktaomfartyg.com/nissos_mykonos_2005.htmIt turns out that this ship took even longer to build than the Sonia - started in 1999 and finished in 2005! It is, for sure, much better looking than the Sonia. It size is a problem. While its capacity would be usable during peak summer months it would be way too large and expensive for operation during the rest of the year. Imagine operating a ferry with Spirit class auto capacity to serve the Charlottes! Even on the Inside Passage in high summer the vessel's capacity would be a problem. Existing ferry terminal parking lots and other facilities in both PR & PH are too small to serve a ship of this size. Hotel and campground facilities in both communities don't have the capacity to serve a ship of this size. What has been desired for some time by people in both PR & PH is a balanced service with two ships running back to back and daily departures in both directions. When the QPR was built in 1966 the plan was to build a sister [ Queen of Kelsey Bay?] so that there would be daily service. So that brings us forward to 2006. BCFS needs to have two ships on the Inside Passage route during summer. Ideally the ships would be a little larger than the QotN, each with auto capacity of 150 to 200, and passenger capacity of 800, and with sufficient speed to do the route in about 14 hours. Two other smaller ships have to be built to serve the PR - QCI run, and the PH - mid coast - Bella Coola route. These smaller ships [auto capacity of ~100] would also be better suited to fill the fall - winter - spring requirements for all northern routes. They should be a little faster [19 or 20 knots service speed] so as to avoid the need for overnight operation and minimize the need for sleeping accommodation. Ideally all four ships would be able to operate in open water [Hecate Strait and Queen Charlotte Sound] year round. Having four such vessels would mean that should the unthinkable happen again we would not be in such a pickle as we are today. If BCF does not buy the Sonia that is probably a good thing. The other ship, the Nissos Mykonos, is simply too big! The suggestion of having three identical ships like the Nissos Mykonos built for the northern routes makes no sense at all, for the reasons that I have laid out above. In the meantime they should charter an older vessel [such as the Scotia Prince] for two or three years until new vessels custom built to suit our needs are available. |
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Neil
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Post by Neil on Aug 18, 2006 9:27:22 GMT -8
"Baited breath"? Oh, yuck. I hope you meant 'bated', as it's not nice to walk around with worms in one's mouth, even if one is planning on going fishing.  Sorry. Don't know anything about the Nisos Mykonos. Prefer to wait for the actual announcement rather than speculate. |
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Post by poeticlives on Aug 18, 2006 18:34:10 GMT -8
If sellers are playing hardball, then they're just dummies... but I don't think any seller willing to let go of a ferry would be that willing to keep it. Who's ahead of BCF on the list of attractive buyers of the Sonia for TTL, should BC Ferries be stingy with the purse?
Money, money, money... we don't have it to lease a vessel for two years and then build one... we've gone without the QoN for a year now... if we need one now I think it's better to settle in for the long haul.
I like the Sonia... ferries can look worse... but the lull on word from Hahn has me a little scared. Can BC Ferries have been complete idiots to have favoured it for so long and then now reject it?
Even with her volatile ownership record, one-off engines etc...
If the deal is done, just be an honourable bloke and drink to future sinking or success (of course I would say that!)
We must remember, that any replacement, temporary or permanent, may possibly require changes to infrastructure- docks etc.
Would we have to accomodate the temporary vessel (obviously spending money on the docks and not the vessel) and then spend more on retrofitments for the permanent replacement??
Doesn't sound like a plan to me.
Oh yes, before I zip it, I would like to ask if anyoned can picture the Sonia as attractive with a tapered stern... rather streamlined... I think it could be cool.
I wonder if the photoshop wizards on this forum can cook up an artificial picture of what it might look like...
Either way, I think the replacement vessel should come ASAP- the permanent one. Let's get on with it.
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Post by WettCoast on Aug 18, 2006 19:02:29 GMT -8
The Sonia does not have 'one-off' engines. She is equipped with 16M32C MaK's, fairly common. I gather that the ISP website reported the engines as being 16M52C which I believe to be a typo.
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Post by poeticlives on Aug 18, 2006 20:26:19 GMT -8
Ah... well, glad the controversy's cleared up!  At one point in another thread, it was suggested otherwise, and obviously I failed to read the rest of it! |
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Post by poeticlives on Aug 19, 2006 11:39:49 GMT -8
If sellers are playing hardball, then they're just dummies... Had I not chosen the obscene B-word to communicate my point, I think I would have chosen "wholly inconsiderate" as in sellers are "wholly inconsiderate", or perhaps a good alternative is "sharks." Like lawyers- the sellers are getting all lawyer on us. Ideally I would like to have the moderators of this fine forum consult me every time my published work is altered, to ensure consistency of lucidity... Alright! Alright! I really am just joking! No consultations necessary! |
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Post by WettCoast on Aug 21, 2006 20:54:34 GMT -8
David Hahn was on the CBC Radio program Daybreak North this morning [heard only in Northern BC] and mentioned the Sonia by name. He said that they have one hurdle to clear in order to purchase her. If they fail to clear that hurdle he said they will go for a plan B. He said plan B will be the chartering of an older ship until they can build new. There will apparently be no Nissos Mikonos. He said that no matter what there will be two ships available next year to serve northern routes.
The interviewer, CBC's James Evans, did not ask the sort of questions in regard to the Sonia, that I would like to hear answers for, such as will they convert berths at various terminals, or alter the ship to make her usable in our waters. Where will conversion work be done, here in BC yards, or in Europe?
They talked mainly about the QPR's replacement. Again no questions or answers to stuff I would like to know such as would the new ship be able to get into Klemtu? Will this new vessel primarily serve QCI, and the Sonia serve the Inside Passage?
Also, no mention at all re the Q of Chilliwack. It is the third northern ship, yes? My understanding is that Transport Canada will not allow its use in open waters after 2010.
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Post by WettCoast on Aug 21, 2006 21:46:53 GMT -8
After reading the BC Ferry Commission documents linked above by Cascade, it appears that the Sonia will actually be used to cover the QPR's routes once the QPR is retired, and the new build vessel, Coastal Serenity ?, will be the main Inside Passage vessel. The Chilliwack will have to be replaced by 2012.
The Sonia's size will no doubt be an asset when crossing the Hectic Strait. But the vessel is, I think, significantly larger than is needed on Route 11.
Another point that I see no answer to is which of these vessels would be the primary off season boat, and how do they plan to serve the small places like Klemtu, Ocean Falls, Sherwater, and dare I say, Hartley Bay? Both the Sonia and the Coastal Serenity appear to be too big to get into those ports.
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Neil
Voyager
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Post by Neil on Aug 21, 2006 22:16:26 GMT -8
I wonder if there's a chance that they would ever do an occasional sailing directly from Port Hardy to Skidegate. When you think about it, there have to be a fair number of people going through- I'm sure Charlottes/Haida Gwai residents would like an occasional sailing south. Might be enough tourist and resident business for, say, once every two weeks or so. Once they get all their ships in order, of course.
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Post by Balfour on Aug 21, 2006 22:46:00 GMT -8
That's an interesting idea. It would be a good open-water route of course
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Post by hergfest on Aug 22, 2006 0:17:39 GMT -8
I don't think BC Ferries would want to do an entirely open water route. Plus how much time would be saved going directly?
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Post by Dane on Aug 22, 2006 13:31:20 GMT -8
If BCFS holds off for a few months on the Sonia, and has the "rush delivery" of the new vessel, couldn't they just modify the existing terminals and have a reasonably low effect on the current service levels?
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Post by WettCoast on Aug 22, 2006 18:59:57 GMT -8
Hornbyguy,
I like your idea about a direct QCI sailing from Port Hardy to Skidegate. A once a week in the summer round trip could work and might prove quite popular with Vancouver yuppies looking for a shortcut to Paradise. Rather than doing all open water though it might make more sense to link up with the Inside Passage somewhere around about the infamous Gil Island. They could still make 5 round trips weekly between Rupert and Skidegate.
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Post by poeticlives on Aug 22, 2006 20:02:46 GMT -8
If BCFS holds off for a few months on the Sonia, and has the "rush delivery" of the new vessel, couldn't they just modify the existing terminals and have a reasonably low effect on the current service levels? Forgive me if I haven't quite followed your logic, but BC Ferries is still going to have to accomodate all vessels and to do that we're going to need new terminals. What is "rush delivery"? How long is that- I'm thinking it's somewhere in cascade's report.... |
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Post by Dane on Aug 31, 2006 21:58:43 GMT -8
Ha ha she'll fit in with the C Class  |
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Post by dualcitizen on Sept 2, 2006 6:08:05 GMT -8
The reason vessels cost so much more than the purchase price is for a variety of reasons:
1. Modifications to the vessel to bring it up to internal standards (in this case there appears to be some work to do)
2. Modifications to bring the vessel to Transport Canadas standards
3. Paying for labour - this would include thrid party legal to negotiate contracts, sending BCF employees to site to inspect vessel, leaving BCF staff in country to oversee the sale and project (could take months)
4. Sending crew over to bring the boat back (they dont travel by barge)
There are a lot of "hidden" costs that the average person doesnt even think about.
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