Sidney - new Terminal ?

[kylefossett]

Just like YVR operates other airports around the world it looks to me like BCF is getting into the terminal operations business when it comes to other terminals.

[Ferryman]

Could they possibly wanting to lease it out to WSF? Like, could BCF lease it to WSF, and BCF would pay for the maintenance for the dock, while WSF operates the Ferry from Anacortes to the terminal?

[Political Incorrectness]

Chris, the only vessels for lease or for sale are the Chinook and Snohomish. Our autos are booked on routes and some are booked into shipyards. I am thinking it maybe the threat of WMG's fast cats going to Sidney. Might as well buy it out so that the competition is not given a chance. Due to cascade's favourite article (THE ACT) , this maybe the only action BCF can take to get competitiors off the major route territory.

[Doug]

BC Ferries would only operate the terminal...so I doubt they would have the right to decide who does and who doesn't dock.

[Neil]

BC Ferry Services will operate the facility, and WSF will be a paying tenant. It sounds like BCFS is looking for additional revenue from cruise ship operators, and possible passenger services.

[Doug]

But the town of Sidney still owns the terminal, don't they?

[Neil]

If they did before, I suppose they still do, with BCFS as the operator. Good for BCFS, I say. No reason why they can't branch out into terminal operation as well. This is perhaps further evidence that there is not actually any queue of European companies looking to get into BC ferry operations, or else they may have bid on the contract.

[EGfleet]

I know from a Councilor (Sidney Council) that BC Ferries want the terminal - but still have not come clean on the proposed usage. The Editor of the "Sidney Review" is still claiming from her sources that WSF have the sole rights for the terminal and will not leave - nor share with BC Ferries. WSF have stated many times on there own web site that they are going to close down the route - take your pick of years from 2006 through to 2008.

I'll also put in here that WSF no longer has any intention of dropping the Sidney route any time soon. In fact, their recently released long term plans (which, yes, I know, can change at any time) call for the two sailings a day at least 9 months out of the year by 2017:
www.wsdot.wa.gov/NR/rdonlyres/B1AF9601-33EC-4CA2-8414-90AA7D3548A4/0/WSFDraftLRSPChapter3.pdf

Scroll down to page 40 which states : "The Anacortes-Sidney route will continue to operate its Spring, Summer and fall season service until the 2017 route restructuring. At that time, with the addition of a fifth vessel to the route system in the spring and fall, a second daily trip may be possible if traffic volumes warrent there is no competing need in the San Juans domestic route."

So whether there is a second sailing or not, WSF has no intention of dropping the Sidney by "2008."

[Ferryman]

Hmm, interesting. So BCF will be operating the terminal, while WSF continues to utilize it. Smart move I think.

[Doug]

Maybe...but you'll probably start seeing stuff like the Tsawwassen Quay around there. Maybe BC Ferries is considering moving some of its Gulf Island service to the terminal...?

[Neil]

dougubell said:

Maybe...but you'll probably start seeing stuff like the Tsawwassen Quay around there. Maybe BC Ferries is considering moving some of its Gulf Island service to the terminal...?

Whatever commercial enterprises they can fit into the terminals, I think they should do it. Can you imagine how unbearable an airport would be if all you could do was wait?
Clowns and hackysack tournaments, bring 'em on, if they generate revenue, and make the system more viable.
Hahn claims there are no plans to move existing services to Sidney.

[Mike C]

...I remember "Tickles the Clown" on SOVI One o'clock... The entire population of the forward upstairs lounge was diminished (where he (or maybe she?) was playing it's - erm - all I can say, it was a very irratating musicle instrument), Girl Guides exempt.

[EGfleet]

hornbyguy said:

dougubell said:

Maybe...but you'll probably start seeing stuff like the Tsawwassen Quay around there. Maybe BC Ferries is considering moving some of its Gulf Island service to the terminal...?

Whatever commercial enterprises they can fit into the terminals, I think they should do it. Can you imagine how unbearable an airport would be if all you could do was wait?
Clowns and hackysack tournaments, bring 'em on, if they generate revenue, and make the system more viable.
Hahn claims there are no plans to move existing services to Sidney.

I don't see why they shouldn't...the Chelan is only there for an hour or so (providing customs doesn't hold us up) once a day for six months then twice a day in the summer...that leaves the other 22 hours or so free. I don't think it would be that hard to schedule around.

Are any of the B.C. boats capable of getting into the Sidney dock? Or should I be asking "which boats" are capable of using the dock as it is now?

[Doug]

What is the beam on the WSF vessels that operate out of there? I'm sure most of the semi-major ferries could dock there (Nanaimo, Burnaby, Tsawwassen).

[Doug]

What is the beam on the WSF vessels that operate out of there? I'm sure most of the semi-major ferries could dock there (Nanaimo, Burnaby, Tsawwassen).

[EGfleet]

dougubell said:

What is the beam on the WSF vessels that operate out of there? I'm sure most of the semi-major ferries could dock there (Nanaimo, Burnaby, Tsawwassen).

M/ Elwha:
Class: Super Class Type: Auto/Passenger Ferry
Length: 382' 2'' Engines: 4
Beam: 73' 2'' Horsepower: 10,200
Draft: 18' 9'' Speed in Knots: 20
Max Passengers: 1076 Propulsion: Diesel Electric(DC)
Max Vehicles: 144 Gross Net Tonnage: 2813/1322
Max Commercial Vehicles: 30 City Built: San Diego
Auto Deck Clearance: 15' 6 Year Built/Re-built: 1967 / 1991

M/V Chelan:
Class: Issaquah 130 Class Type: Auto/Passenger Ferry
Length: 328' Engines: 2
Beam: 78' 8'' Horsepower: 5,000
Draft: 15' 6'' Speed in Knots: 16
Max Passengers: 1076 Propulsion: Diesel
Max Vehicles: 124 Gross Net Tonnage: 2477/1772
Max Commercial Vehicles: 30 City Built: Seattle
Auto Deck Clearance: 15' 6 Year Built/Re-built: 1981

[EGfleet]

cascade said:

The land that the terminal sits on and the original terminal - built in 1926 were "gifted" over to the Township of Sidney - so they own it out right. This was done by the last members of the family that owned it once.

There was an option in 2003 for the site catering - which changed hands from the previous cater - but as you know - via the WSF site - they state there is no retail / catering - food at this terminal.

You will also know that the Washrooms - WC - need replacing - and the Township had a vote on it - it lost and the funds where used to build the Cruise Ship terminal - dolphin, at a cost of $76,000.

Personally, Cascade, I'd really like it if you'd produce some of these "public record" documents you're talking about, or at least the links to them. And you're completely incorrect about the WSF site saying there is "no retail/catering--food" at this terminal. This is taken directly from the website:

Sidney B.C. Food Service Information
After clearing US Immigrations, travelers must stay inside the fenced area of the Sidney dock for security. The Sidney Terminal provides a Deli and Gift Shop within the terminal confines. The Deli serves sandwiches, hotdogs, gourmet baked goods, coffee and soft drinks and the gift shop sells an array of items for the traveler, T- shirts, books and souvenirs. Deli hours are reflective of the vessel in the dock. For Spring hours are from 9:30 a.m. through the 11:40 a.m. departure. Food service has resumed on board the three-hour trip from Sidney to Anacortes, vending machines are also available on board.
A currency exchange is available for customers disembarking from our vessel in Sidney. Customers arriving from Anacortes or the San Juan Islands and need to exchange money, will have the perfect opportunity to do so after clearing immigration and customs at the Sidney terminal.

That sounds an awful lot like food and retail to me. Here's the link if you don't believe me.:http://www.wsdot.wa.gov/ferries/info_desk/terminals/index.cfm?terminal_id=19

[EGfleet]

You will also know that the Washrooms - WC - need replacing - and the Township had a vote on it - it lost and the funds where used to build the Cruise Ship terminal - dolphin, at a cost of $76,000.

And you're incorrect on this...

www.sidney.ca/Assets/Administration/Council/2006/April_10_2006.pdf

Which, if you scroll down states "1. That the replacement of washroom facilities located at the ferry terminal not proceed in 2006"
and
"2. That the pocket cruise ship dock be extended at a cost of $45,000.00 to be funded from Rental Revenue from Washington State Ferries and that
3. the financial plan for 2006-2010 be amended to reflect the above."

Who is the "it" you refer to when you say "it lost?" This was a motion carried by the council and voted on unanimously. WSF rents the dock. I don't think they care if there are washrooms there or not. And why would the city of Sidney want to spend the money on the washrooms with B.C. Ferries buying the terminal and taking over operations? Let them rebuilt the washrooms.

Incidentally I also cannot find anything on any of the other claims your'e making in these meeting minutes, but then I'm not all thre way back through 2005 yet.

[EGfleet]

cascade said:

Try again and look at your own statement - that Food has resume on the route. It was stopped as I stated.

The two sums added together - $45,000 was the second sum for the WC - go back further in 2004 & 2005 and read them. I have been told off in the past for putting in links to the "boring" stuff - as a number of members just wanted a summary - you are new and want details...so next time I will for you site time & place - but why not check it out yourself?

BC Ferries are not "buying" the terminal as you put it. They will be the "new" operators of it - but for how long and under what terms - no one knows. How much money are they paying Sidney for the right to manage and run the terminal ? As you like to do some digging - try and find out.

Actually, I was reading your statement which said:

There was an option in 2003 for the site catering - which changed hands from the previous cater - but as you know - via the WSF site - they state there is no retail / catering - food at this terminal.

If you intended that to mean that this all happened in 2003, that's not what you wrote...your sentence implies that, at this time there is no such serviceat the Sidney dock and says so on the WSF website, when, in fact, the opposite is true and it does clearly state on the WSF website that there is a gift shop and food service at the terminal. This is what confused me and if I misinterpreted what your intent was, I apologize.

And of course the food service/gift shop does close down--January through March because, obviously, there is no ferry.


As for the other issues, yes, I did say B.C. Ferries is buying the dock when that's not the case...all I do know is that WSF has no intention of ending Sidney service any time soon. They will continue to operate Spring, Summer and Fall as it has been. The last report I saw from the state said they were in negotations for a "long term contract" but, since it hadn't been finalized, Susan Harris Huether spokeswoman for WSF, wouldn't comment--and rightly so since the deal hand't been inked yet. There have been no indications though that there have been any problems whatsoever, and reading back over the meeting minutes over the last year or so from the city of Sidney, I could find no indication of anything wrong there, either.


As we all know plans can change at any time, but certainly WSF has no plans to end the run. I image if there is any such decision or there are problems with the lease, we'll hear about it. You may speculate all you want but until I see a big banner headline that says SIDNEY RUN TO END I'm not going to worry about it.