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Post by Political Incorrectness on Mar 4, 2006 16:28:52 GMT -8
Should Departure Bay operations and service be moved to Duke Point? Why move it to Duke Point? At Duke Point, it is a matter of making some minor changes to accomidate two routes, maybe a third. Why the third route? To boost the Northern routes popularity by starting the route at a port of embarkation closer to Vancouver. Any thoughts?
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Post by Mike C on Mar 4, 2006 16:41:01 GMT -8
My imput:
First of all, BCF would have to build at least another berth to accomadate all the vessels. But I think if they expand Duke Point (quite a bit, triple the size) they would be able to fit not only service to Horseshoe Bay and Tsawwassen, but move the Gabriola departure point from Downtown Nanaimo to Duke Point. I used to think (when I was about 6) that the Quinsam left from Duke Point. I was proven wrong.
If they (BCF) wanted a route to the north from the south, they would probably pick Tsawwassen over Duke Point.
I don't know about any of you, but I absolutley hate Departure Bay. It's crowded and noisy and dirty, and worst of all, not big enough to hold all the cars travelling to Horseshoe Bay.
In terms of Nanaimo Harbour, I think that's a really annoying location for a BC Ferry. Passenger Only service works best in Nanaimo Harbour (i.e. Harbourlynx or Harbour Air). When I tried to get to the Nanaimo Harbour terminal from Hwy 19, there were no signs pointing which way to the terminal. (my dad had to use his memory from the 80's to try to navigate his way through Nanaimo.
In conclusion, thsi would be an okay idea, I'm just worried about the fact that it might get a little crowded.
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Post by Political Incorrectness on Mar 4, 2006 18:56:49 GMT -8
Crowds are going to be a factor no matter what, you have to face the line up one day or another.
Why go all the way from Tsawwassen? That is just backtracking from Vancouver, however, it does make sense but it may cost more going from Tsawwassen due to the distance which is why I thought about Duke Point for a cruise area. Make it multi functional to allow ferries and a cruise ship to come into Duke Point. That is why I thought of a Super terminal in the protected waters of Naniamo Harbour around the size of Tsawwassen, maybe smaller. Then, upgrade the facilities at Duke Point to accommodate a cruise ship so that it does not have to tender in and make it so BCF can run cruises out of there, it may boost tourism up in the Inside Passage and not just a vital link.
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Post by Mike C on Mar 4, 2006 19:10:38 GMT -8
After reading your post, it seems that you think that Duke Point is this massive super terminal with multiple berths. Well, it's a small 40 lane terminal with a single berth. They have room for another, they just havn't built it yet (or they may never build it, depending on how many vessels will be going in and out of there in the future). The only way I can suggest to expand Duke Point is to make it wider, and have 2 car levels (like HSB for example). But there is NO WAY That a cruise ship would be able to fit into the terminal. Downtown is still the best alternative. If you want Cruise ships at Duke Point, you'll have to dock them with the freighters.
Also note that Duke Point is a huge inconvenience, and is still a 20 minute drive into Nanaimo. It seems in your proposal that the entire marine industry of Nanaimo will be revolving around Duke Point.
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Post by tyty on Mar 4, 2006 19:14:40 GMT -8
Remember that the terminus for the Inside Passage service was moved from Kelsey Bay north to Port Hardy after the Island highway was extended in the 1970s.
It's a VERY long ferry ride, especially in the winter with the mid-coast stops. I don't think its necessary to make the trip any longer.
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Post by Mike C on Mar 4, 2006 19:16:49 GMT -8
Remember that the terminus for the Inside Passage service was moved from Kelsey Bay north to Port Hardy after the Island highway was extended in the 1970s. It's a VERY long ferry ride, especially in the winter with the mid-coast stops. I don't think its necessary to make the trip any longer. With one stop at Port Hardy. Tourists may get off at will. |
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Post by Ferryman on Mar 4, 2006 20:57:07 GMT -8
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Post by Political Incorrectness on Mar 4, 2006 23:09:03 GMT -8
You can also go to www.globalairphotos.com and find the Nanaimo South gallery, then you can find some shots of Duke Point or get Google Earth. Sattelite images showed the Duke Point (from my view) has twice the space of Departure Bay in the holding lanes. I am afraid that BC Ferries may spend money to improve a terminal that can be located somewhere else and not plauge the town with traffic. |
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Post by Ferryman on Mar 4, 2006 23:26:12 GMT -8
Alright, I'm going to elaborate a bit more on this, as a regular of Route 2, and intermittent rider of Route 30.
Departure Bay isn't so bad in the off season, but it can be very aggravating having to deal with the amount of traffic on that route on the 2 busiest days of the week, Friday and Sunday. Departure Bay is definitely alot better off now, than it was 10 years ago. But to simpily move all of the operations over to Duke Point wouldn't be the best idea. The Departure Bay terminal has been around for quite a long time now, and has quite a bit of history to it. Going to Departure Bay was always a family tradition to me when we needed to take the ferry, and I used to love waiting to see a Ferry come around the Point on Newcastle Island. But really, I just hope they upgrade the Terminal soon. I think Departure Bay has been the Terminal that has seen the least amount of money being put into it. There was the upgrade to the Coffee shop a few years ago, to match the Fastcat scheme, and plus the ramp modification that joined both berth 3 and 2 together. Thos modifications were done appoximately 6-8 years ago. But the ramps and the scheme of the terminal aren't the biggest set backs to it. It's of course the lack of holding space. I know that terminal isn't in the easiest location to expand, seeming it's all built on fill, much like how most of the original Downtown Nanaimo area is situated on. Now for Duke Point. Duke Point was a good place for a terminal. the berth setup is similar to the Langdale configuration, but minus a berth, and turn the holding lanes 90 degrees. But when I was there 2 weeks ago, and waiting for the New West to come in, I was very suprised that there were only a few more holding lanes left, and there didn't seem to be a problem loading the ferry right up with them all. So there's still not very much more leftover room to accomadate another ferry load, plus extra, for a sailing wait. Docking a C-Class in the area berth 2 would be placed, wouldn't be the fastest way of doing it eaither. It would be just like parking a V-Class at a berth, stern to. So really, that berth would be best suited for a minor, like the Quinsam. Although, they could expand the terminal out to the western side of the point, and install another berth, along with some more holding lanes, just to sort of separate the two routes, and it could then probably accomadate both routes no problem, and the ferries could directly enter and exit the dock no problem still. The only problem with that idea, is that there's a trail that goes through there, and I'm sure alot of people would be upset that alot of it would be taken away.
So there's alot of pluses and minuses to it all, but this is a huge debateable topic, and I could go on about it more, but I've simply had a hard day at work today. So I'm going to stop, and let someone else finnish it off.
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Post by Mike C on Mar 5, 2006 13:59:40 GMT -8
And that person would be myself. As you know, I am a regular user of Duke Point, and quite fond of it too. The least we can do is have the Quinsam going in and out of there, and for god sakes, have a bigger and better waiting room, other then 20 vending machines and a coffee bar. There is space for another berth on the east side (holding side) that would be loaded the same way as the main berth. Additional berths could be built on the east side, but that would be a challenge considering the tides in the area. Additional holding space could also be provided with the new berth, this time streching towards the west.
The people who will complain about this project are the residents of Cedar, and the users of that silly little path. Cedar will hate it because it will increase traffic flow on their highway, and the users of the path will complain about thier path being wiped out. But for the path problem, I have a solution. BC Ferries can buils a connecting underground walkway, connecting the terminal to the beach, to the existing path. The residents of Cedar will just have live with the increased traffic flow, possibly a highway expansion.
I was saying earlier that the east side would be a bad place for a new berth because of tides. This is why I came up with a solution: putting a berth on the northern tip, and expanding holding northward (and westward).
That's another one of my crazy ideas that just might work. We should have a Nanaimo resident come on here, and tell us what they think of this proposal.
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Post by Low Light Mike on Mar 5, 2006 14:35:00 GMT -8
Well, that would be me, a Nanaimo resident.
I don't think the Cedar residents would care about the traffic, because the highway connecting the ferry terminal to Hwy-19/1 is a dedicated road for the ferry, ie it was built especially for the ferry terminal. Cedar residents already have use of existing roads to connect to Nanaimo.
I agree that the current unfinished berth-2 is poorly placed, that it would require a vessel (or "vessle" as JCA would say, but now I'm off topic, sorry) to make a 180-degree turn both on arrival & departure.
Expanding the terminal to put a berth further north on the point would be feasible. It would create an even longer-and-narrower terminal, but look at Horseshoe Bay for long & narrow.....it can work fine. So what if it's close to 1-km between the ticket-booth and the berth.
I've always liked Duke Point....maybe it's just a novelty. It's main weakness of lack of transit: The Regional District of Nanaimo really needs to look at a better schedule for bus-transit to service the ferry-terminal.
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Post by Scott (Former Account) on Mar 5, 2006 14:46:05 GMT -8
I was saying earlier that the east side would be a bad place for a new berth because of tides. This is why I came up with a solution: putting a berth on the northern tip, and expanding holding northward (and westward). I agree, Mainlander101. However, doing this would mean demolishing the park (It is not just a path) and expanding the terminal in its place. This would not go well with users of the park and the Snuneymuxw nation... As for Departure Bay, it is going to be expanded. Currently there are four parts to the major expansion, but you will have to wait and see what those four parts are.... |
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Doug
Voyager 
Lurking within...the car deck.
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Post by Doug on Mar 5, 2006 14:56:37 GMT -8
If you compare the area of Duke Point to Departure Bay, Duke Point is in more of a constraint than Departure Bay, as the only thing holding Departure Bay back is buildings which can be purchased by BC Ferries and demolished. Duke Point has water to the east and west, the Harmac Mill to the south and a park to the north. And if it only has room for 400 cars in the parking lot, expanding it to accommodate Horseshoe Bay traffic is out of the question.
They won't do any land reclamation at Duke Point either...the only reason they did it (and still can) at Tsawwassen is because it is all foreshore land. Duke Point is deep.
It also makes sense to have Horseshoe Bay and Departure Bay north of Vancouver and Nanaimo and Tsawwassen and Duke Point south of Vancouver and Nanaimo, doesn't it? Who wants to drive up to Horseshoe Bay and end up half hour south of where you used to. It would affect their vehicle ridership as well as foot passenger as it wouldn't land in downtown Nanaimo anymore.
But expanding Duke Point to accommodate Horseshoe Bay traffic won't happen though as BC Ferries has plans in store for Departure Bay...which are currently skeptical. But big.
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Post by Quinsam on Mar 5, 2006 14:58:51 GMT -8
I think that Departure bay ferries should use Duke Point, and the Quinsam can be a 3 way route can't it? Nanaimo Harbour-Duke Point-Descanso Bay-Nanaimo Harbour?
Then, the northern people of Nanaimo can take the Quinsam to Duke Point, and then go to Tsawwassen or Horseshoe Bay.
Not too sure about the QOTN or QPR docking at Duke Point though.
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Post by Political Incorrectness on Mar 5, 2006 16:02:01 GMT -8
At Duke Point, you have to make a 90 degree slow turn to get passed Gabriola Island, then you have to travel a little farther before you make another turn 45 or 90 degress depending on whether you are going to Horseshoe Bay or Tsawwassen. Duke Point was badly designed for adding a second berth, if you add a second berth right next to the current first, would it affect shipping traffic that goes out to the point?
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Post by Mike C on Mar 5, 2006 19:33:22 GMT -8
I think that Departure bay ferries should use Duke Point, and the Quinsam can be a 3 way route can't it? Nanaimo Harbour-Duke Point-Descanso Bay-Nanaimo Harbour? Then, the northern people of Nanaimo can take the Quinsam to Duke Point, and then go to Tsawwassen or Horseshoe Bay. Not too sure about the QOTN or QPR docking at Duke Point though. How 'bout another one, execpt passenger-only, like Departure Bay-Newcastle Island-Descanso Bay? Also in response to Mr. Horn's opinion of lack of Transit, I agree. The shuttle bus is costly, and so is a cab. BC Transit can look into a three way route between Duke Point-Downtown-Departure Bay. |
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Koastal Karl
Voyager
Been on every BC Ferry now!!!!!
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Post by Koastal Karl on Mar 5, 2006 20:28:56 GMT -8
The Rupert did a big swing into berth 1 today at Tsawwassen. Looked like she was gonna go straight in a dock bow to but then swung around like she was gonna hit the pilings but she dident, and backed right in. The ol girl needs a new paint job! She can rest for a bit now!
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Neil
Voyager
Posts: 7,309
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Post by Neil on Mar 5, 2006 21:33:46 GMT -8
The unfortunate thing about Duke Point is that, for those of us heading up island, (in my case to connect at Buckley Bay for Hornby), it hasn't saved five minutes in driving time over Horseshoe Bay-Departure Bay, since its so far south. Also, the waiting room/food facilities are still atrocious, considering that if the ferry is full, you've got a minimum two and a half hour wait.
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Koastal Karl
Voyager
Been on every BC Ferry now!!!!!
Posts: 7,747
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Post by Koastal Karl on Mar 6, 2006 11:33:18 GMT -8
I think that Departure bay ferries should use Duke Point, and the Quinsam can be a 3 way route can't it? Nanaimo Harbour-Duke Point-Descanso Bay-Nanaimo Harbour?
Then, the northern people of Nanaimo can take the Quinsam to Duke Point, and then go to Tsawwassen or Horseshoe Bay.
Not too sure about the QOTN or QPR docking at Duke Point though.
« Last Edit: Yesterday at 5:59pm by Quinsam Teen »
Why would you have a route go from Nanaimo Harbour to Duke Point to Gabriola??? People coming down from the North Island will just drive to Duke Point. Would be more of hassel to get a ferry from Nanaimo Harbour to Duke Point. Also I dont think Gabriola residents want to stop at Duke Point. Gabriola residents aint gonna go from Duke Point as it's way out of town. I think it is best to leave the Nanaimo Harbour to Gabriola route alone.
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Post by Quinsam on Mar 6, 2006 16:10:35 GMT -8
Maybe, but a passenger vessel is needed to take the north Nanaimo residents without a car to Duke Point.
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Post by Mike C on Mar 6, 2006 16:28:48 GMT -8
I agree with the idea of having the Quinsam go from DKPT-Nanaimo-Descanso. Anyone else agree on this logic? It would work. If the whiny Gabriola residents step in, and complain about there trip taking an additional 15 minutes, they'll have to deal with it.
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Post by Ferryman on Mar 6, 2006 16:39:45 GMT -8
I don't think it would be a good idea. The whole idea of the Quinsam going to a different terminal instead of the Downtown Nanaimo terminal, is so they can get rid of that terminal, as there is not alot of holding space there. If the Quinsam was to run out of Duke Point, I'm sure they would make sure there was a handy transit route out there. It's only a matter of 5-10 mins from Downtown Nanaimo to Duke Point.
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Post by Political Incorrectness on Mar 6, 2006 18:00:45 GMT -8
They should keep the Quinsam in downtown or Departure Bay. However, I wonder how much the land at Departure Bay would go for if it were to be sold.
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Post by Mike C on Mar 6, 2006 18:56:30 GMT -8
I agree with the idea of having the Quinsam go from DKPT-Nanaimo-Descanso. Anyone else agree on this logic? It would work. If the whiny Gabriola residents step in, and complain about there trip taking an additional 15 minutes, they'll have to deal with it. I meant have it go three ways: Nanaimo-DKPT-Descanso-Nanaimo. Lets say a nice Victoria family comes up for a nice weekend in Nanaimo. One of the things they plan to do is take a trip to Gabriola. Not unlike myself, what if they can't find the Downtown Nanaimo terminal? Gabriola would lose tourism business this way. I couldn't find the terminal. Also, The Gabriolians can just come to Nanaimo anyway. The ferry will offer express service directly across at some points in the day, won't it?  Edited by me, with added Wave Livery. |
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Post by Curtis on Mar 6, 2006 22:06:57 GMT -8
Yeah the Vancouver-Duke Point-Gabriola Connection it would work
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