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Post by Balfour on Sept 20, 2005 17:53:16 GMT -8
This is from the annual general meeting which was held today:
--David L Hahn
Can't they just increase fares?
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Koastal Karl
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Been on every BC Ferry now!!!!!
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Post by Koastal Karl on Sept 20, 2005 18:00:33 GMT -8
Why dont they just include fuel surcharges as part of the fare???
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Post by Curtis on Sept 20, 2005 18:42:12 GMT -8
Exactly that's what they should be doing
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Post by Alex on Sept 20, 2005 19:11:19 GMT -8
Because a "fuel surcharge" sounds more like an external factor than a "fare increase" People are more likely to say "well, fuel is expensive..." and continue using the ferries. Whereas with a fare increase, people get pissed about prices going up and up, and some people might stop using the ferries.
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Post by Low Light Mike on Sept 20, 2005 20:09:41 GMT -8
There might also be a legal requirement re an inability to raise fares, but a special fuel surcharge is allowed....under the rules of the charter for BCF.
So I think that legally they can't raise the base fare, so they have to do these special surcharges.
Cascade will likely respond to this by 8:00 am tomorrow with clarification.
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Doug
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Post by Doug on Sept 20, 2005 20:30:04 GMT -8
Ya something along the lines of "I don't like the fuel surcharge - it will be ugly in the future - perhaps BCF should open up the market - give private operators a chance."
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Post by Political Incorrectness on Sept 20, 2005 20:36:21 GMT -8
Exactly that's what they should be doing that is what they are doing right now they should instead add on to the fuel surcharge but if gas keeps going up in price then need new fuel source |
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Post by Balfour on Sept 20, 2005 20:37:10 GMT -8
lol, Took the words right out of his mouth!
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Doug
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Post by Doug on Sept 21, 2005 15:53:25 GMT -8
How do you know BC Ferries won't remove the fuel surcharge from the fares?
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Post by kylefossett on Sept 21, 2005 17:39:20 GMT -8
under the coastal ferry act they are only allowed to increase fares at predetermined times. a fuel surcharge is techinically not a fare increase but a surcharge.
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Post by BrianWilliams on Sept 21, 2005 21:52:09 GMT -8
I agree with Cascade that BCF may have missed the boat (what a fine metaphor) in not buying futures in petroleum a year ago.
However, an equally-astute manager may have sold those contracts six months ago at the high of US$50/bbl. Who knows? Now it's $64 .. what's next?
What is in the mind of the Saudi regime, or Hugo Chavez? Or Pat Robertson?
In the meantime, I'm willing to live with BCFs surcharge as a separate item.
Tuesday's Bowen ticket: 2 x Adult Pass = 12.50; 2 x Fuel Surcharge = 0.60.
Ouch! Six trips would cost one Starbuck's grande, no caramel, no sprinkles.
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Post by Quinsam on Sept 22, 2005 15:13:25 GMT -8
Maybe BCF could have solar engines on the new ferries so there is no more fuel worries.
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Post by Alex on Sept 22, 2005 15:26:44 GMT -8
Maybe BCF could have solar engines on the new ferries so there is no more fuel worries. Unfortunately, solar power could never really power a ship of that size. I'm not 100% sure about the power density of solar cells, but I'm pretty sure you'd be hard pressed to run even a small car off of sunlight. And that's not even counting the days when it's NOT sunny in this area... |
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Doug
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Post by Doug on Sept 22, 2005 16:01:55 GMT -8
Bio-diesel would be a start as stated before, but the hydrogen fuel cell would be even better.... It requires a higher compression in the engine which diesel engines already have. I believe all ferries and vehicles on this coast should have minimal emissions to keep it beautiful.  |
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Post by Political Incorrectness on Sept 22, 2005 16:45:09 GMT -8
well the problem is it takes alot to make hydrogen liquid
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Post by Curtis on Sept 22, 2005 16:57:55 GMT -8
That's the only problem it's useless to make it some say
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Doug
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Post by Doug on Sept 22, 2005 17:02:29 GMT -8
Well it is still in the developing but bio-diesel would be an excellent idea still.
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Post by Alex on Sept 22, 2005 17:23:15 GMT -8
well the problem is it takes alot to make hydrogen liquid The hydrogen doesn't have to be liquid for the fuel cell. In fact, I'm pretty sure it needs to be a gas for the fuel cell to actually work. I think it has to do with the entropy of a liquid vs a gas...the activities are different. Sorry, it's all somewhat sketchy, since the course I'm taking on fuel cells has just started. However, the best way to store and transport hydrogen is in liquid form, I think. |
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Doug
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Post by Doug on Sept 22, 2005 17:25:12 GMT -8
Propane simply becomes a liquid by compressing with the pump at the gas station...what can be so hard about hydrogen?
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Post by Alex on Sept 22, 2005 17:33:23 GMT -8
Propane simply becomes a liquid by compressing with the pump at the gas station...what can be so hard about hydrogen? Different elements have different properties. The state of an object is not only dependent on the pressure, but also the temperature. Also, each changes state at different temps and pressures, as I'm sure you know. I'm lookign for real data right now, but the pressures needed to liquify hydrogen at room temperature would be either astronomical, or it could even be impossible. |
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Post by Alex on Sept 22, 2005 17:41:07 GMT -8
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Post by NMcKay on Sept 22, 2005 17:53:48 GMT -8
i think the best way for the BCF to work. is to have a splitter, which would take saltwater, and split the Hydrogen and the oxygen out, and the Oxygen would serve 3 purposes. (1) It would serve as emergeny breathing tanks for those emergencies on the ferries, (2) it would serve as pur oxygen to feed to the Engines when the Hydrogen engines are not in use (3) it would create cleaner air, because its pure oxy going back to the environment, and then the hydrogen would be recombioned with the oxygen pumped from outside, and the water would be used for fresh drinking water, and cooling of the engines, therefore allowing the diesels to be longer lasting (saltwater tends to decrease the MTBF of an engine)
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Post by Alex on Sept 22, 2005 17:56:34 GMT -8
i think the best way for the BCF to work. is to have a splitter, which would take saltwater, and split the Hydrogen and the oxygen out, and the Oxygen would serve 3 purposes. Unfortunately, it takes energy to extract hydrogen from water! Specifically, a current for hydrolysis. Where would that electicity come from? |
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Post by NMcKay on Sept 22, 2005 19:01:41 GMT -8
from the diesel engines. you need to prime the engine anyway. so when the hydrogen system is running, then its all good. and the electrolosys system extracts more energy than it puts into it.
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Doug
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Post by Doug on Sept 22, 2005 19:51:37 GMT -8
How is the hydrogen extracted? Water is just a cycle most of the time...this could end that and actually use water like a fossil fuel. We have lots of it, yes but it is VERY essential to life on this planet...would this have any effect on the enviroment? How much water/day would one ferry require? How about billions of cars and millions of boats and aircraft?
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