Route 17 and 18 Strategies

[hergfest]

Where do you get this stuff, Quinsam? Why in the hell would they run two V-Class ships from Powell River to Texada when a single 49 car vessel does the route now? Talk about overkill. And I doubt they would put a vessel like the Quinsam on the Texada route, it gets into some pretty open water.

[Political Incorrectness]

dude I dont know where the hell you are coming from 2 V's on a 30 minute route have you had too much caffeine?

[cascade]

Harry Chill out - go ride your bike.

Would you use Concord to fly from London to Norwich ?

[YZFNick]

Would that be the equivilant of flying from Vancouver Int'l to Victoria Int'l? I'll check out Google Maps in a bit to check the distances.

Hey Cascade, while I have your attention. What percent of capacity would a typical ferry (BC Ferry, and/or Euro) have to be filled to break even. Once I found a document on the Quadra ferry that shouldn't have been left out. It stated that the break even point for the Powell River Queen on that route was 60 cars (capacity 68 cars) for a percentage capacity of 88%. Is that a typical number for many ferries?

If the fares on a route a proportional to the route's length, the break even percentage would be based primarily on the ship on the route. Using traffic numbers, the optimal ship can be found for the route. Say the NIP's break even point is 45 cars (49 capacity), it might even be a good ship to use on the Comox route because ridership could drop on a privatized route.

Is my thinking correct on this? What are everyone else's thoughts?

[cascade]

Nick,

There is an average running cost for the vessel - based on fuel - Crews wages and repairs - (Not mid-life up grades ect..) Insurance - docking /berthing fee, marketing, ticketing - shore based service - night service crew, local taxes, safety reg's and crew training.

I can't name - names - but for two finance projects we did - one in Spain and one for Italy. There break even cost are different.

Spain - 2 hour trip / vessel can hold 150 cars - 500 pax. It is new - 2003. They require over a Q1 (90 days) an average of 31 cars and 65 pax per trip. They do 12 round trips per day and have 3 sets of crew. Each crew set is 6 people.One crew set always on leave. Plus there is a 3 person night crew to service the vessel. Wages in Spain are actually higher than in BC - but not BC Ferries wages...

Italy - 1.5 hour trip - vessel hold 70 cars and 300 pax. They require over Q1 - 27 cars and 60 pax to break even.

Our fuel cost are much higher in Europe than in BC - plus the average wage for crew is also higher. Ticket prices are cheaper - but they offer more round trips per day than in BC - due to the speed of the vessel and it's general running cost are a lot less - as they are newer vessels.
So where is the difference - it is in the operating cost of the new vessel. Really it is that simple - the newer the vessel the cheaper it is to operate. We have VERY high safety reg's here

In making a very general statement - you should be looking to average around 30% of the vessel load to break even - anything less - then the route is not profitable. Hence why there is a form of government subsidy to help out these routes where it is the only form of transport. We (Europe) don't have government aid in direct form - but I am sure some countries to help out there transport companies.

So for the route you talking about - having to run at 100% load - just to break even is bad - non-profitable.

I looked at the accounts - 31st July 2005 - and saw for route 12 - Brentwood - Mill Bay, that they took in $1,045.500 in revenue - (tickets sold) but there Labour cost alone where listed as $1,460,000 - so it cost more to have the crew working than they were making in ticket sales. On top of this BCFS subbed into the route additional amount of $1,400,000 which paid for the running cost - like fuel, Insurance, terminal fee, and maintenance - so in total the run showed a loss of ($380,000) I don't like the way BCFS does there accounts - but it shows you how they "fix" things. The Brentwood figures was for 2004/2005 year, but 2003/2004 - they only turnover $846,000 in ticket sales - so where has the big difference come from ?

[Doug]

Cascade, yet another post making Europe sound SOO much better than BC. Wages higher? BC Ferries has HIGHER than average wages, but just out of curiousity, how much does the average Captain make? Ticket prices cheaper in Europe? It costs four times as much to cross Dover Strait than it does to Vancouver Island! The safety regs in Europe are probably high, but how is their record? BC Ferries is apparently enviable. So there!

[Political Incorrectness]

doug they have to have higher safety requirements CAUSE YOU ARE IN A HUGE SHIPPING CHANNEL AND THOSE SEAS ARE ROUGHER THAN THE STRAIGHT OF GEORGIA! did you ever think but cascade doug is right that you make europe sound better than BC in fact Canada has better average wages than UK

[NMcKay]

Cascade is right. just work into the fact that BCF gets about 7.20$ per hour off of a walk on, and then work into what it costs to take a ferry in Europe....you'll get sticker shock.