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Post by Dane on May 30, 2005 20:39:00 GMT -8
Here's three pieces of information, do with them as you will
- Washington Marine Group is currently recertting one fast cat;
- Washington Marine Group has secured terminal time at Tsawwassen;
- Washington Marine Group is negotiating for terminal space at a Victoria area terminal.
and for all you pro-private BCF people, the reason you don't know about this yet is because there is no FIA adherence required anymore.
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Post by Balfour on May 30, 2005 20:42:58 GMT -8
Interesting... I wonder what Mr. Washington wants to do the one Pacificat? Where is the third one docked right now? Is it in Port Moody?
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Post by Ferryman on May 30, 2005 21:01:26 GMT -8
I think it's still on the North Shore somewhere.
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Post by Curtis on May 30, 2005 21:07:35 GMT -8
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Post by Ferryman on May 30, 2005 21:09:32 GMT -8
Yeah that looks like down by the second narrows bridge or something
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Post by NMcKay on May 30, 2005 21:12:39 GMT -8
shes down with all the other seaspan boats, they needed the dock space for asomething else. so the Voyager had to move.
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Post by YZFNick on May 30, 2005 22:32:33 GMT -8
So could WMG run a ferry service between Tsawwassen and Swartz Bay using the government's facilities at the respective sites? Would they be doing something like Speed Ferries in Europe by providing cheap fares from advance bookings? With the wake problems the cats have, they couldn't go fast at all through the Gulf Islands. They would probably be recertified as a non-fast-ferry classification too.
Thanks for the info, Dane. Lots of stuff to think about!
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Post by Dane on May 31, 2005 0:19:05 GMT -8
Thats all I know, and HarbourLynx Kid they didn't move it because they needed dock space, if you look at how the dock are laid out. Secondly, there are people working on it, as well. I'm not sure if this is a one time trial or what, but I just found out froma BCF Captain today. They wanna keep it on the DL, so perhaps this will be a one time thing? BC Ferries is required to open their terminals to any one that makes a reasonable request.
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Post by cascade on May 31, 2005 10:23:17 GMT -8
Dane,
You are right - in a Trade magazine - which I copied the page and mailed to Harbourlynx - they talk of two Fast Cats - operating on one of the route. They are talking about trying it out for the summer only. WMG have not confirmed the article is correct or not. Half page article - our scanner is not working so I posted / mailed this and a few other interesting bits - Harbourlynx maybe able to scan in and post for you.
Some of you will remember I talked about the Ferry Terminal "Plugs" which were built for the Fast Cat program at a cost of $70m. They floated these into the current terminal - berth design so the terminal would fit the Fast Cats - Sandwell the Vancouver Engineering firm handled the contract - and then gave a complete white wash report to the government hence my comments about them been black balled from any further government works - like why didn't they get the offer to tender for the running of the terminals - which has been quietly subbed out to SNC Levine - from Montreal. So I asked what happen to the "plugs" ? now if the Fast Cats are back - short term only summer - season - then where are the plugs as they need them to load and unload the cars. I trust they haven't scrapped them?
Dane - on your second point - the Terminals are actually owned by you - the government via BCFTA - not BC Ferries. Who have a license to operate from them for the next 60 years at a rental of $100,000 per year - plus they must upgrade and maintained them to a certain standard. This maintenance side of the contract has been sub contracted out to SNC Levine.
BCFTA can grant a license to any operator to use any of the terminals which they "own".
You first need a license from the "Ferry Commissioner" to operate a passenger/ car Ferry service in BC - but given WMG standing ect.... then I don't think this is a problem.
The last thing in the world you want to do - is be a third party player with BC Ferries on a route - which is what BCF want to happen so they can unload a number of there older vessels and problem labour contracts - no thank you...
ps the run - routes is Duke point to Tsawwassen. Victoria is to Seattle ? Home land security problems - no...non runner.
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Post by hergfest on May 31, 2005 12:20:49 GMT -8
A fast ferry might work on Route 30. But how would they work it? Run the Alberni on BC Ferries then one of the Fastcats on a private route out of Tsawwassen?
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Post by cascade on May 31, 2005 12:37:12 GMT -8
A problem I have had - when we noticed that one of the Fast Cat - had been de-classified from her Society. This is a major mistake on WMG part - as people worldwide will have this info. That is if they want to sell any of them. They should have done the major works / surveys on her in June 2004. Another problem I see - is how are they going to load her without the terminal "plugs" unless they make changes - or even still - they don't carry cars only foot passengers. Speed and her engines - this is another serious area of concern. Given the mistake the shipyard has made in the past with other vessels in having high speed engines - then having them taken out and replaced with medium speed engines. She never reached her so called top speed in all the trails they did - with all the 3 vessels. Plus we have the wake / wash / wave problems. These are inbuilt - even dropping her speed - will not solve this problem. The Water in takes are also a problem - but more of a design issue. On WMG side - I see if they can get these vessels to work - or to be seen to be working - hide the costs - then they just may have a possible market place in which to sell them. NDP winning a few seats springs to mind now - next election - sort out BCFS?  Stranger things have happen??? |
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Post by Political Incorrectness on May 31, 2005 19:13:46 GMT -8
Well here is the other side of the coin. Wake Wash won't be a problem in the Strait, its open water so it doesn't matter. If you think I am wrong look at Europe.
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Post by NMcKay on May 31, 2005 21:06:16 GMT -8
okay. i had much though about those boats when i was on them, and i pulled up many solutions, of which BCF could have made some use of them. but they choose to ignore my 45 emails.
This ship could use something known as a Plug, for as right now, the convergence wake (where the wake from the 2 hull collide, making a bigger wave) if you put another fixed hull here, it would break the convergence wake, and make the ship operate with a mich smaller wake, next i would set the ship up to operate on a Car only basis. with a limited number of cars. and i would remake the interior. to allow for more pax, and i would increase the size of the outer deck.
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Post by cascade on Jun 1, 2005 6:01:21 GMT -8
Dan,
On the issue of Wake - Wash - Wave - this is calculated by using a formula - where you input the following info:
1. Speed of vessel (Different speeds)
2. Weight (Loaded and unloaded)
3. Length of vessel. (Hull size shape)
4. Depth of water - deepest to shallow
When they did the tank test on the Fast Cat - which was done in Norway - they had not adjust anything from the Aussie design. BUT back in BC -they added length to the hull - changed engine size & weight and then added 10 tons of ramp to the front of them. They forgot to return with this new design to the water tank for testing - so when out on trails - she could not reach top speed - and the wake - wash and wave were massive - as the hull was the wrong shape for the weight and speed.
If any of you "Students" want the simple formula I will post it and then use the figures from John's other web site and see for your self the problems. Now compare with the Harbourlynx - which again you can get the figures you need from IMO file on her.
You will see a massive difference - hence when buying something like a vessel it is one of the first things we do when arranging finance - so anyone else would do the same if they wanted to purchase any of the Cats.
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Post by cascade on Jun 1, 2005 6:06:24 GMT -8
Dan,
On the issue of Wake - Wash - Wave - this is calculated by using a formula - where you input the following info:
1. Speed of vessel (Different speeds)
2. Weight (Loaded and unloaded)
3. Length of vessel. (Hull size shape)
4. Depth of water - deepest to shallow
When they did the tank test on the Fast Cat - which was done in Norway - they had not adjust anything from the Aussie design. BUT back in BC -they added length to the hull - changed engine size & weight and then added 10 tons of ramp to the front of them. They forgot to return with this new design to the water tank for testing - so when out on trails - she could not reach top speed - and the wake - wash and wave were massive - as the hull was the wrong shape for the weight and speed.
If any of you "Students" want the simple formula I will post it and then use the figures from John's other web site and see for your self the problems. Now compare with the Harbourlynx - which again you can get the figures you need from IMO file on her.
You will see a massive difference - hence when buying something like a Fast Ferry -vessel it is one of the first things we do when arranging finance - so anyone else would do the same if they wanted to purchase any of the Cats. It is a major design problems. We think they can only work in shallow waters and at greatly reduce speed - hence then why would you buy one?
Yes I know that the Georgia Straits is very deep - but that is one of the problems with wake - wash - wave on fast ferries. And yes we do have a problem in Europe - which is why they have sorted it out over the years - plus with engine emission - smoke - same problem at speed.
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Post by Deep Boat on Jul 26, 2005 9:37:51 GMT -8
The Pacificat Voyager was returned to Peir 94 today. The Cat had been moved purely to allow dock space for the completion of another project. No work was done on the vessel while it was at the VSY site.
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Post by NMcKay on Jul 26, 2005 12:58:23 GMT -8
She mustve moved today, cause she was in the same spot yesterday when i went by on the lynx
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Doug
Voyager 
Lurking within...the car deck.
Posts: 2,213
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Post by Doug on Jul 26, 2005 19:53:37 GMT -8
How do you know this info isn't just another dupe?
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Post by Balfour on Jul 26, 2005 20:19:43 GMT -8
I'll have to go down there myself sometime soon. Dane could too. Where is Dane anyways? He hasn't been on sonce June
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Post by NMcKay on Jul 27, 2005 0:08:52 GMT -8
dunno. but she was there monday @ 4:50 when i went by on the lynx
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Doug
Voyager
Lurking within...the car deck.
Posts: 2,213
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Post by Doug on Jul 27, 2005 0:19:34 GMT -8
I clearly remember Biff saying in his "video" "I wonder how else I can dupe you saps."
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Doug
Voyager
Lurking within...the car deck.
Posts: 2,213
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Post by Doug on Jul 27, 2005 0:20:08 GMT -8
I'd say we best not believe any rumours from guests for the next while.
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Post by Balfour on Jul 27, 2005 0:23:07 GMT -8
Good idea!
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Post by BrianWilliams on Jul 27, 2005 2:09:05 GMT -8
This is such a basic question, y'all may laugh, but I'll ask anyway:
Are the PacifiCats displacement hulls at moderate speeds; and do they become planing hulls at service speed?
At what speed is the transition?
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Post by NMcKay on Jul 27, 2005 10:07:26 GMT -8
yeah. because of the way they were built. Probably in the 22 knot range.
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Stranger things have happen???
