Alaska Ferries - general thread

[Name Omitted]

Jul 6, 2015 22:18:07 GMT -8 Neil said:

Kevin, for some perspective, I'd be interested to know if the state is also proposing to cut a lot of highways maintenance budgets... in particular, roads to isolated communities. I ask this because it seems to me that Alaska is joining BC in targeting communities served by marine transit, because the 'losses' incurred by ferry operations are so easy to highlight.

In BC, there is a silly notion that people living in ferry dependent communities are, to a certain extent, self entitled contrarians who demand an unreasonable amount of publicly supported services. Is there a similar mindset in Alaska?

This question brings up fairness in budgeting.  Alaska has a third level to the puzzle that may not exist in BC (although it undoubtedly exists in the Yukon Territories).  We have several communities that are supported by neither road, rail nor ferry who are seeing airport hours cut.  They would ask why we are putting so much funding into ferries when most of the towns that are served by ferries are also served by airports (and private barge service).

Yes, Coastal Alaska would tell you that the ferries are being unfairly targeted for budget cuts, and they would be correct to do so.  It is much more likley that rural road communities will keep the funding to keep roads plowed than it is for Alaskan coastal communities to keep their ferry service.  The counter argument that is made is that communities in coastal Alaska are much more likely to be reasonably self-sufficient, and less likely to rely on regional emergancy servicices such as ambulance or fire protection.  Similarly, private barge lines have access to coastal communities providing freight services regardless of the status of inter-city roads, and the US Postal service does not use the ferry to deliver mail.

Roads are being prioritized over ferries.  I would argue that ferries are not being prioritized highly enough by the State. That being said, this board is going to be self-selected for ferry advocates.  In the interest of better laying out the debate as it actually is, there is actually a very good argument to be made that that prioritizing roads that connect inter-dependent towns over ships between independent tows is appropriate.

Road advocates would also be right to point out that the continued construction of the Alaska Class Ferries and the continued development of a M/V Tustumena replacement have been thus far held harmless in the budget debate.  With the State loosing USD $10 Million a day, that's not for nothing.

[Low Light Mike]

Budget cut bad news continues for summer 2016.

No Taku
No fast ferries (neither one)
No Malaspina

No fun.

Link HERE

[Name Omitted]

Oct 7, 2015 18:33:09 GMT -8 Low Light Mike said:

Budget cut bad news continues for summer 2016.

No Taku
No fast ferries (neither one)
No Malaspina

No fun.

Link HERE

The Juneau Empire has more.  It is worth noting that this is the AMHS schedule based on budget assumptions.  This comes out ahead of the legislative session in January.

[Starsteward]

Oct 8, 2015 6:10:48 GMT -8 Name Omitted said:

Oct 7, 2015 18:33:09 GMT -8 Low Light Mike said:

No Taku
No fast ferries (neither one)
No Malaspina

No fun.

Link HERE

The Juneau Empire has more.  It is worth noting that this is the AMHS schedule based on budget assumptions.  This comes out ahead of the legislative session in January.

    Comments posted by readers of the Juneau Empire bring to light a couple of items that sound as if they could also apply to BCF.
    Bloated numbers within management and an aluminum vessel designed by 'valley' farmers. Sound familiar?
    The service cuts on the other hand make BCF/Ferry Commission look like foolhardy spendthrifts. 
    Laying up almost one-third of your fleet is truly alarming given the road inaccessibility of some of the communities served by AMH.

[engcadet]

Hi guys, I'm new.

I'm looking for information about which engines are in use by the Alaska Marine Highway fleet. So far I've discovered that:

MV Columbia uses 2 V12 Enterprise engines (can it be?)

MV Matanuska and Taku use 2 MaKs each, but I'm unsure of the models.

MV LeConte uses a Cat/MaK 3412.

Do you guys have any more information about the engines in this fleet?

Best,

Emily

[WettCoast]

There are a couple of Alaska-based members on this forum at least one of whom is AMHS crew.  You could try sending a 'PM' (personal mail; see the 'messages' menu item just below the 'flagship' photo at the top of the page).  One of them is Name Omitted, and the other is M/V LeConte (he has not posted for some time).  Good luck trying to find the information you seek, & welcome to this forum.

[Name Omitted]

Nov 16, 2015 17:36:44 GMT -8 engcadet said:

Hi guys, I'm new.  Welcome to the forum!

I'm looking for information about which engines are in use by the Alaska Marine Highway fleet. So far I've discovered that:

MV Columbia uses 2 V12 Enterprise engines (can it be?) That was true.  She was recently re powered and is now driven by 2 Wärtsilä 9L32 9 cylinder engines.

MV Matanuska and Taku use 2 MaKs each, but I'm unsure of the models. Add Malaspina to that list, the three started out the same and I don't think either the Mat or the Mal were re-powered when they were stretched. MaK 8M453C  The Mat is set to be re-powered soon.  Come to think of it, I could well be wrong here, they are 50 year old ships and if they are still on their original equipment then that is a hell of a testament to MaK.  Here is more info on Taku I suspect you can extrapolate for the other 2 from this.

MV LeConte and MV Aurora uses a Cat/MaK 3412. EMD V12-645-E7 This may be dueling websites.  I am not sure that mine is correct.

The website linked in the paragraph above gives the MV Tustumena Two EMD V12-645-F7B Engines and the M/V Kennicott 2Two Wärtsilä 12V32E Engines.

The 2 fast ferries are driven by MTU diesels.  It's hard to quickly find stats as any web search will be buried under results from the lawsuits between the State and the manufacturer.  The engines have been problematic.

MV Lituya MIGHT be powered by the CAT 3508B.

[engcadet]

Thank you, sir! Very helpful.

I'm asking because I'm trying to land an interview with Alaska Marine Highway to get a berth as an engine cadet. My school gives us time off between terms to get the seatime we need for our tickets. My school hasn't delt with AMH before, because we are mostly Canadians. I allready have my mmc credential (wiper), and I'm a dual Canadian-American, so I thought maybe I could talk to AMH about getting my seatime. I think Transport Canada will accept it as long as I get mentorship from a lisenced crewmember and the vessel meets the HP requirement.

If anyone knows how I can go about getting someone's attention in Juneau, I'd welcome the advise. In fact, fire away with all advise. I'm listening.

[Name Omitted]

A House-Senate conference committee is discussing a change in US Federal allocations that would allocate CIP money away from ships based on millage since last overhaul and towards passengers served.  If passed, this would have a tendency to shift funding away from AMHS and towards systems like the Washington State Ferry.

U.S. Senate bill could cut Alaska ferry funding

[Neil]

Nov 24, 2015 20:00:35 GMT -8 Name Omitted said:

A House-Senate conference committee is discussing a change in US Federal allocations that would allocate CIP money away from ships based on millage since last overhaul and towards passengers served.  If passed, this would have a tendency to shift funding away from AMHS and towards systems like the Washington State Ferry.

U.S. Senate bill could cut Alaska ferry funding

Hopefully Sen. Murkowski will successfully make Alaska's case that it is unique among all the state systems in serving such a huge area with relatively few passengers. This shouldn't even be a matter for compromise. Alaska's small communities are going to be hurt enough by the cuts already announced- this could make things so much worse.

[Starsteward]

Nov 24, 2015 22:27:21 GMT -8 Neil said:

Nov 24, 2015 20:00:35 GMT -8 Name Omitted said:

A House-Senate conference committee is discussing a change in US Federal allocations that would allocate CIP money away from ships based on millage since last overhaul and towards passengers served.  If passed, this would have a tendency to shift funding away from AMHS and towards systems like the Washington State Ferry.

U.S. Senate bill could cut Alaska ferry funding

Hopefully Sen. Murkowski will successfully make Alaska's case that it is unique among all the state systems in serving such a huge area with relatively few passengers. This shouldn't even be a matter for compromise. Alaska's small communities are going to be hurt enough by the cuts already announced- this could make things so much worse.

     Alaska Senator Murkowski had better get his 'A' -game plan together and pitch it well as I can't imagine having to go up against all the 'me-me-me's from 50 states!
     Yes there's more money to be spread around under the U.S. system, however I'm guessing BCF is glad they don't have to compete in that kind of a funding system.
     And we thought BCF was in the glue for money. Hopefully AMHS doesn't have to absorb any more cutbacks as they're close to the bone as it is.

[Name Omitted]

Nov 25, 2015 10:19:20 GMT -8 Starsteward said:

     Alaska Senator Murkowski had better get his 'A' -game plan together and pitch it well as I can't imagine having to go up against all the 'me-me-me's from 50 states!

It is worth noting that Murkowski is in a very odd position.  She is on the House-Senate conference committee, which means she is representing the Senate in this, and they are the ones who want to change the formula.

[Name Omitted]

This visualization of the changes in the Marine Highway over time may be of general interest.  From the famous London Underground map on, it has always been interesting looking at the different ways people use to understand transportation systems.  Each form of visualization has its own flaws and strengths, this one included.  Specifically, it puts the value of a sailing of Columbia as equal to that of Lytuia, so the number of sailings does not give a good representaion of the capacity on the route, and this does not include the IFA, so Hollis is not nearly as undeserved as it appears, but it is an interesting visualization nonetheless.

[FNS]

Way back in the summer of 1975, I watched a religious television special that was taped in Alaska.  It was one of Oral Roberts'.  A lot of Alaska was shown.

They did a scene aboard the Alaska ferry MV LECONTE.  I do remember hearing a loud whistle blast from that ferry during that segment.  They also showed one of the stretched vessels of the original Spaulding "blue canoes" a few times. 

This was a neat show to watch and I wished I had a VCR then to record it (we got our first Beta VCR a few years later, then VHS after).  "Beta Vision" and "Beta Max" were the standard VCR's before VHS as well as many of you young forum mates entering this planet full of technology.  The below story has notes of this production:

news.google.com/newspapers?nid=348&dat=19750829&id=RvpMAAAAIBAJ&sjid=LTMDAAAAIBAJ&pg=6290,4110472&hl=en

(Copy and paste this link into your browser)

[Name Omitted]

Captain: Ferry fleet needs to shrink

The head of the Alaska Marine Highway System gave the clearest statement yet that the ferry system will soon sell two of its 11 ships.

Speaking to the Alaska House Transportation Committee, Captain Michael Neussl, head of Marine Highway, said it makes little sense for the ferry system to own 11 ships when it only has the funding for nine.

“The fleet size, in my estimation and opinion, needs to shrink back,” he told the committee Thursday. “We will need to divest of some vessels, and we need to start looking at that sooner, rather than later.”

Continues... Taku is still first on the list, Tustumena is safe.

[WettCoast]

Jan 25, 2016 11:20:40 GMT -8 Name Omitted said:

Captain: Ferry fleet needs to shrink

The head of the Alaska Marine Highway System gave the clearest statement yet that the ferry system will soon sell two of its 11 ships.

Speaking to the Alaska House Transportation Committee, Captain Michael Neussl, head of Marine Highway, said it makes little sense for the ferry system to own 11 ships when it only has the funding for nine.

“The fleet size, in my estimation and opinion, needs to shrink back,” he told the committee Thursday. “We will need to divest of some vessels, and we need to start looking at that sooner, rather than later.”

Continues... Taku is still first on the list, Tustumena is safe.

Kevin, in your opinion might this be nothing more than a pressure tactic by senior AMHS staff to get state legislators to 'wake up'?  Or, do you think that this might actually happen, soon. 

There may be a market for the Taku in Fiji.

[roeco]

I was thinking maybe Black Ball Ferries operators of the Coho between Port Angeles and Victoria could maybe  be looking for a 2nd vessel...and depending on the shape of some Alaska ferries they may be a good contender...sure their old...but with TLC and refurbishment they could still be good for quite some time especially if it only ran 4-5 months a year as a supplement to coho. They've already got the right loading configurations for side and rear.

[Name Omitted]

Jan 25, 2016 12:45:13 GMT -8 WettCoast said:

Kevin, in your opinion might this be nothing more than a pressure tactic by senior AMHS staff to get state legislators to 'wake up'?  Or, do you think that this might actually happen, soon. 

First off, just a reminder, unlike others who have been in this forum, I have no inside information.

I don't think this is a pressure tactic.  The Southeast Transportation Plan has already suggested that once the Alaska Class Ferries come online, one of the mainliners would be retired.  We have know for awhile that that would probably be Taku.  As for a second ship, it's none too surprising, really.  55 year old ships are hard to maintain.  If I recall correctly, the Mat is due for some federal Capital Improvement Project money for a new engine.  That leaves the Mal as an obvious guess as to what the second vessel will be.

I think the shockingly bad Sitka schedule that was originally released WAS intended as a wake-up call, but I could be wrong.

roeco, if memory serves, Taku was laid up just before some major USCG re-certification would have been necessary.  While that is not, in itself a deal-breaker, it is something else that Black Ball would have to account for should they put in a bid.  When they did, they would get a ship that was (despite her hull-length) significantly larger then Coho.  I would imagine with no more insider knowledge than the rest of you) that a full accommodation deck would be expensive to haul around on a route with a run-time of less than 2 hours.

[Kahloke]

In addition to Kevin's response to Roeco regarding Blackball possibly purchasing a used "Blue Canoe" from Alaska, it seems unlikely given the ages of the vessels that will be retired.  Sure, they are a few years newer than Coho, but I rather doubt Blackball is in a financial position to acquire another vessel.  And even though Coho is kept in pristine condition, there is no getting around the fact that she is 57 years old, and its going to get more and more expensive to maintain and upgrade Coho to keep her current with new safety regulations.  I love the Coho.  I think it's a great ship, and I will be sad to see her go, whenever that happens.  I hope Blackball has a plan for Coho's eventual replacement.  I would hate to see that service die.

[Name Omitted]

Study Finds Widespread Economic Benefits of Alaska Ferry System & Impacts of Reduced Service

(SitNews) Ketchikan, Alaska - The Alaska Department of Transportation released a report Thursday on the positive economic impacts of the Alaska Marine Highway System and the impacts of reduced services. The report, prepared by the Juneau-based McDowell Group, found that the state-run ferry system generates a return of more than $2 to the state for every $1 invested.

“The ferry system provides a critical link for many communities,” Governor Bill Walker said. “But I was surprised to learn just how widespread the economic impacts are, accounting for 1,700 Alaska jobs and more than $100 million in wages and benefits.”

Continues in link above.

[Name Omitted]

I have not had a chance to read it, but here is the actual report on the economic benefits of the AMHS to Alaska:
The Economic Impacts of the Alaska Marine Highway System

[Starsteward]

Feb 9, 2016 7:14:30 GMT -8 Name Omitted said:

I have not had a chance to read it, but here is the actual report on the economic benefits of the AMHS to Alaska:
The Economic Impacts of the Alaska Marine Highway System

      Three big 'cheers' for Alaska Governor Walker's refreshing admission regarding the economic impact that the AMHS delivers to his great state!
      Some folks might see this 'revelation' as refreshing, however, I for one am quite stunned to hear that Governor Walker didn't realize this fact from the get-go.
      Good grief people, Alaska advertises itself as  huge, vast, remote, inaccessible, with hundreds of thousands of miles of coastline, etc. 
      Maybe I'm just too anally retentive, but I can't believe that someone who holds the highest office in the state government couldn't put the advertising adjectives
      together with the importance, (are we all ready for the obvious?), of a FERRY SYSTEM!
 
      With that Herculean task out of the way, perhaps the good governor will re-adjust the AMHS budget upwards and reinstitute the level and    
      frequency of marine highway services that his constituents' enjoyed and relied upon before the axe was lowered on the recent AMHS operating budgets.
      After all Mr. Governor, you said: : every dollar invested returned 2 to the state treasury...eh?
  
      PS. to Governor Walker: Could you please send two copies of 'The Economic Impacts of the Alaska Marine Highway System' to: 
      The Honourable Christie Clarke, Premier of British Columbia,  Victoria, B.C. Canada.
      The basic concept, vis-a -vis 'Economic Impact' / Ferry Services -delivery, apparently has not enjoyed the same revelation here in B.C. as it has recently enjoyed 
      in your great state of Alaska.
      If the mail budget is a bit tight and only one copy be sent along as requested, perhaps you could jot a personal 'PS' to Ms. Clarke to pass her copy 
      along to her Highways guy when she's done with it.               

[Name Omitted]

Potential changes to the governance of the AMHS as State, Southeast Conference agree to rework ferry system.  This is a good process to have started.  You shouldn't run a ferry system with an administration that changes every 4 years.  Whatever we do about the current budget, we need a system that can make a consistent long-term capital plans.

[Name Omitted]

Some more motion on the Southeast Conference looking for new options for governance of the AMHS. It is to be a two part project, with the first part looking to other governance models for ferries, the second looking at potential business models.

Southeast Conference takes first step towards ferry system overhaul

[Name Omitted]

My father just rode the Mat, Columbia and the White Pass steam excursion last week.  He has photos and thoughs on his website, and I am up for shameless promotion when the content is in line with the interests of the group;

Elderly Ferries

Lynn Canal

The Run Home, Chatham Strait to Peril Strait

Pardon the indulgence, it's worth a look (hopefully the White Pass trip will have a link soon for us train fanatics).