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Post by SS Shasta on Mar 21, 2009 12:01:09 GMT -8
Citizens’ ferry idea shot down By NATHAN WHALEN Whidbey News Times Reporter Mar 20 2009, 1:36 PM · UPDATED Authorities are saying a citizens’ plan to help improve ferry service on the Port Townsend to Keystone route won’t work. The group, “Citizens Write Plan C,” came up with the idea of modifying two Evergreen State ferries for use on the Whidbey route across Admiralty Inlet. The ferries, the Klahowya and the Tillicum, (sic) would be equipped with high-performance rudders and steering gear the proponents argue would make the vessels able to navigate the difficult entry into Keystone Harbor. Marta Coursey, spokesperson for Washington State Ferries, said the two Evergreen State class vessels, which hold 87 vehicles and are approximately 50-years-old, wouldn’t be able to navigate through Keystone Harbor even with the changes. “They don’t have the power to maneuver,” Coursey said, adding in a Thursday interview that officials hadn’t seen a copy of the citizens’ Plan C. The ferry system examined the possibility of modifying the Evergreen State vessels in 2007. That study found that the vessels were underpowered and it would be too expensive to change power plants. Coursey didn’t have a dollar amount on the cost needed to update the boats. Service on the Keystone ferry route has been limited since November of 2007, when officials retired the ancient Steel Electrics, which were the only four vessels in the ferry fleet capable of navigating the swift currents of Admiralty Inlet and the shallow Keystone Harbor. Currently the route is being served by the Pierce County-owned Steilacoom II. The Island Home, the permanent replacement for the route, isn’t scheduled to enter service until summer 2010. The Citizen’s Group, based on the Kitsap Peninsula, argues that using the Klahowya and the Tillicum (sic) would mean a second Island Home wouldn’t have to be built and the money could be used to build larger ferries. “Under their plan, they do not take care of Whidbey Island,” said State Sen. Mary Margaret Haugen, who is chair of the Senate Transportation Committee. “We don’t want any more old boats on Whidbey Island.” Haugen reviewed the documents the group provided and she had one question about Citizen’s Plan C: “How would you pay for it?” “It’s one thing to put up plans. It’s another thing to pay for them,” Haugen said. The citizen group formed after a public outcry surrounding drafts of Washington State Ferries’ long-range plan. The system’s plan offered two options, one which basically maintains current service but had a significant budget shortfall, and another which made major cutbacks. Citizens’ Plan C, which was presented to the state House and Senate Thursday, advocates a focus on building ferries rather than terminals, capping ferry fares and directing marketing toward tourists. Haugen said the Senate is scheduled to present its draft budget Tuesday. I wondered if this idea would ever hold water. Certainly WSF management would have check this idea out before a new class of vessel was ordered. The Evergreen State Class are too big for a save landing at Keystone.
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FNS
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Post by FNS on Mar 21, 2009 12:46:54 GMT -8
And, plus the hulls of the ES-Class would have had to be completely removed and one with a new shape with shallower draft be welded on. Add to this the replanting of all the machinery. Add to this the framing, too!
I'm not a licensed engineer/draftsman. But, I just wonder if all my ideas in the above paragraph would actually float with the needed free-board and seaworthiness for the waters there?
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Post by Barnacle on Mar 22, 2009 8:41:15 GMT -8
Nice to see that SOMEONE gets it... the amount of power that the Evergreens have isn't the problem. They have way more power and resposniveness than the Steel-Electrics ever thought about. The problem is DRAFT. The Evergreens draw between 2'9" (Klahowya & Tillikum) and 3'1" (Evergreen State) more water than the Steelies do. Plain and simple.
Anyway, Ferrynutseattle, your idea wouldn't work because you wouldn't be removing any weight by replacing the hulls with a shallower design. You would, however, be removing buoyancy. An Evergreen would still sit lower than a Steel-Electric. In fact if you remove too much buoyancy they'll sit a LOT lower, and we already have proven a submarine can't get into Keystone. ;D
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Post by EGfleet on Mar 25, 2009 14:32:05 GMT -8
Dangerous U.S. 2, Highway 522 to get millions under new budget
By Jerry Cornfield Herald Writer
OLYMPIA – Washington would build more ferries, improve safety on U.S. 2 and stay on track with widening a deadly stretch of Highway 522 under the proposed Senate transportation budget released today.
Also included in the plan is money to start designing a new bridge across the Snohomish River on Highway 9 and finding ways to ease congestion on U.S. 2 through Everett.
Overall, the draft proposal invests $4.3 billion in spending on roads, rail, buses, and ferriesin the two-year budget beginning July 1.
Combined with the recent infusion of federal stimulus dollars, the state will be launching nearly $5 billion in projects through the middle of 2011.
One surprise in the Senate plan is money for a second Island Home class ferry for traveling between Port Townsend and Keystone Harbor on Whidbey Island.
Work is already under way on a 64-car vessel for that route. A second boat would restore service to levels enjoyed in 2007 before the state pulled its aging Steel Electric class boats off the run because of safety concerns.
Two additional Island Home boats would get built between 2011 and 2013 in the six-year transportation outlook put forth by senators.
In December, Gov. Chris Gregoire issued her proposed transportation budget that funded only one Island Home and delays building a second one until after 2013.
On U.S. 2, between Skykomish and Snohomish, another $2 million would be poured into safety projects, matching the sum in the federal budget signed earlier this month by President Barack Obama.
With Highway 522, it’s a matter of keeping a promise, Haugen said.
The $176.3 million project will widen the route to four lanes between the Snohomish River and the city of Monroe, build a new bridge across the river and a new direct ramp between eastbound Highway 522 and eastbound U.S. 2.
Funds were pledged from the nickel gas tax increase approved in 2003 but the project has been delayed several times since. Bids could be sought starting in December.
Gregoire recommended putting the project off another two years drawing the ire of many legislators in the Snohomish County delegation.
The Senate Transportation Committee is scheduled to hold a hearing on the proposal at 1:30 p.m. Thursday. Action by the Senate is not expected until next week.
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FNS
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Post by FNS on Mar 25, 2009 17:18:49 GMT -8
Nice to see that SOMEONE gets it... the amount of power that the Evergreens have isn't the problem. They have way more power and resposniveness than the Steel-Electrics ever thought about. The problem is DRAFT. The Evergreens draw between 2'9" (Klahowya & Tillikum) and 3'1" (Evergreen State) more water than the Steelies do. Plain and simple. Anyway, Ferrynutseattle, your idea wouldn't work because you wouldn't be removing any weight by replacing the hulls with a shallower design. You would, however, be removing buoyancy. An Evergreen would still sit lower than a Steel-Electric. In fact if you remove too much buoyancy they'll sit a LOT lower, and we already have proven a submarine can't get into Keystone. ;D Good to see that we, "Barnacle" and myself, are on an even keel on this. As for EGF's posting above, great news. Hopefully, the single vessel contract gets converted back to a two vessel contract. We definitely need a minimum of two of these to maintain quality service on the Keystone run year round. I just wonder what we may see on this run during the first IH-Class vessel's maintenance break?
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Post by Barnacle on Mar 25, 2009 20:34:13 GMT -8
The obvious answer would be "Bob," which also answers to Steilacoom II. ;D
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FNS
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Post by FNS on May 3, 2009 22:54:48 GMT -8
Tonight, the Port Townsend terminal has landed another route. This is for the time being, though. The ferry from Edmonds. This is the brightest ferry seen at Port Townsend since 1979 when the SPOKANE and WALLA WALLA (each taking turns) were on the Edmonds - Port Townsend run after the sinking of the west half of the Hood Canal Bridge in February of that year. Although the service we see this time is not to the standards (number of sailings and size of ferry) we saw in 1979, we see the KITSAP arriving on the single nightly round trip from Edmonds. The activity at Port Townsend's Harrison Terminal. The activity in 1979 was at the little old Quincy Street dock in downtown. That dock was a single laner and it took quite awhile for a jumbo to unload and load. It was no surprise that the service in 1979 was late on many of the trips. The KITSAP departs on time. If this was in the 1940s, you would have seen a KITSAP, the classic old 166-foot 1925 ferry, doing trips from Port Townsend to Keystone for the Black Ball Line. This ferry you are seeing tonight is the current 328-foot version and is heading to Edmonds. Meanwhile, next summer, this is how you will see the new Keystone ferry lit up at night. Bright on the sides and aft end. A switch in the wheelhouse will turn off the forward Main Deck and passenger observatory lights to give both her navigators and passengers a better view of navigational aids, shore lights, and the ferry docks in the dark of night. The observatories of the Steel-Electrics were darkened at night. In the old wooden configuration, only one or a few light bulbs were screwed fully in the sockets. Sometimes, all were out in their observatories. In the new configuration of the ILLAHEE, NISQUALLY, and QUINAULT, the fluorescent lights were turned out in the last 24 feet (three window sets) at each end.
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Post by Barnacle on May 4, 2009 6:58:39 GMT -8
If this was in the 1940s, you would have seen a KITSAP, the classic old 166-foot 1925 ferry, doing trips from Port Townsend to Keystone for the Black Ball Line. This ferry you are seeing tonight is the current 328-foot version and is heading to Edmonds. Actually the old KITSAP only worked PTK until 1940; after that, the ROSARIO took over the run until Black Ball abandoned it as far as I know. The KITSAP was on the Mukilteo-Columbia Beach run from 1941 to 1945 and Pt. Defiance-Tahlequah from 1947 to 1949 that I can prove.
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FNS
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Post by FNS on May 4, 2009 7:27:51 GMT -8
I went by what "evergreenfleet.com" has written on the history of the old KITSAP. Begin of quote: "She began work on the Fauntleroy-Vashon route, but in 1930 was switched over to the Suquamish-Ballard run. Five years later, in November of 1935, a labor strike forced KCTC to sell out to PSN. The Kitsap and her two sisters were painted in the colors of PSN and raised the Black Ball flag from their masts. The ferry remained on the Suquamish-Ballard run until 1938, when PSN sent her to the Mukilteo run. She stayed there for two years then moved up to the Port Townsend-Keystone route in 1940, where she remained until 1947, when PSN moved her back to Mukilteo, then back to her first route at Vashon Island." End of quote. I'll have to dig up more info on this.
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Post by EGfleet on May 4, 2009 8:36:28 GMT -8
I went by what "evergreenfleet.com" has written on the history of the old KITSAP. Begin of quote: "She began work on the Fauntleroy-Vashon route, but in 1930 was switched over to the Suquamish-Ballard run. Five years later, in November of 1935, a labor strike forced KCTC to sell out to PSN. The Kitsap and her two sisters were painted in the colors of PSN and raised the Black Ball flag from their masts. The ferry remained on the Suquamish-Ballard run until 1938, when PSN sent her to the Mukilteo run. She stayed there for two years then moved up to the Port Townsend-Keystone route in 1940, where she remained until 1947, when PSN moved her back to Mukilteo, then back to her first route at Vashon Island." End of quote. I'll have to dig up more info on this. WHich just proves Barnacle and I need to communicate more--he's got the Black Ball schedules for that era. I'll have to go back and make the changes. ;D
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FNS
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Post by FNS on May 4, 2009 8:48:31 GMT -8
Just dug up some more info. The little south sound ferry FOX ISLAND was placed on the Keystone run. Date not clear. If this writing is correct, this was Olympic Ferries' first ferry. Fox Island (ferry) The ferry route between Port Townsend and Ke stone, Whidbey Island, was purchased from the Puget Sound Navigation Co. by Olympic Ferries, Inc., organized by Capt. Oscar Lee, H. J. Carroll and A. C. Grady. The 20 -car motor ferry Fox Island, in wartime service in the Bremerton area by the Horluck Transportation Co., was purchased by the new firm and placed in service in charge of Capt. Lee. The route was last in use in 1943 and it was necessary to construct new landing facilities at Keystone, the old ferry slip having been destroyed by storms during its period of disuse. Gordon Newell, Maritime Events of 1947, H.W. McCurdy Marine History of the Pacific Northwest. Seattle :Superior Publishing Company, 1966, p. 546 www.cimorelli.com/cgi-bin/magellanscripts/ship_bio1.asp?ShipName=FMORE INFO: www.geocities.com/ferries_bc/profiles/retired/bcf_georgespearson.html
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Post by EGfleet on May 4, 2009 14:47:59 GMT -8
Just dug up some more info. The little south sound ferry FOX ISLAND was placed on the Keystone run. Date not clear. If this writing is correct, this was Olympic Ferries' first ferry. Fox Island (ferry) The ferry route between Port Townsend and Ke stone, Whidbey Island, was purchased from the Puget Sound Navigation Co. by Olympic Ferries, Inc., organized by Capt. Oscar Lee, H. J. Carroll and A. C. Grady. The 20 -car motor ferry Fox Island, in wartime service in the Bremerton area by the Horluck Transportation Co., was purchased by the new firm and placed in service in charge of Capt. Lee. The route was last in use in 1943 and it was necessary to construct new landing facilities at Keystone, the old ferry slip having been destroyed by storms during its period of disuse. Gordon Newell, Maritime Events of 1947, H.W. McCurdy Marine History of the Pacific Northwest. Seattle :Superior Publishing Company, 1966, p. 546 www.cimorelli.com/cgi-bin/magellanscripts/ship_bio1.asp?ShipName=FMORE INFO: www.geocities.com/ferries_bc/profiles/retired/bcf_georgespearson.htmlThat sounds right. And after the second "Sturdy Gertie" Tacoma Narrows opened up in 1950, Pierce County sold the Skansonia and Defiance (which had been operating under lease from the Skansie brothers, if my memory is correct). Oly Ferries got the Defiance and sold off the Fox Island. The Defiance would run on Pt. Townsend-Keystone from then until the San Diego arrived in 1971. Steamboat Bill # 117 Spring of '71 reports that the Defiance was replaced and "kept as a reserve boat." By Steamboat Bill #118, SUmmer of 71, they report Olympic Ferries has the Defiance up for sale. #120, Winter Steamboat Bill reports the Defiance sold as of October of 1971. Olympic Ferries reported at that time if they weren't allowed to shut down between October and APril 15th they'd go out of business. Steamboat Bill #126 Summer 1973: "Neighbors and patrons of the Port Townsend-Keystone (Whidbey Island) Ferry have been urging the State of Washingont to acquire the route and proved year-round service. San Diego operates April through October only." Steamboat Bill #130 Summer 1974: "Olympic Ferries Inc, is not expected to resume operations this spring. They have sold their boat San Diego to Embry Enterprises, Vancouver, B.C. who plan to convert it into a showboat restaurant-excursion boat named Klondike Queen complete with a dummy sternwheel." We all know well how that worked out. The San Diego currently is abandoned off Decker Island along the Sacramento River. "If the Port Townsend-Keystone (Whidbey Island) service is not resumed, the Washington State Ferries are required by law to operate the route during the late spring and summer." And in spring of '74, WSF took over the route.
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Post by whidbeyislandguy on May 6, 2009 17:27:47 GMT -8
So I thought I would start doing a ruff boat history for this run.. here is the 1st part.. and the 2nd... More to come......
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Post by whidbeyislandguy on May 7, 2009 23:46:27 GMT -8
And here is the time of the Fox Island and the other Olympic ferries inc.
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Post by SS Shasta on May 8, 2009 14:06:42 GMT -8
Just wondering what kind of traffic has been experienced on the Edmonds-Port Townsend route this week. Has the vessel MV Kitsap been running at capacity or close to capacity? Is it mostly truck traffic?
It would also be interesting to know if any of the regular WSF routes besides Edmonds-Kingston have been impacted by the bridge closing?
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Post by Kahloke on May 8, 2009 14:28:48 GMT -8
I can't speak for the Edmonds-Port Townsend route, but I know first hand that traffic levels were definitely a lot lighter than normal on the Edmonds-Kingston route last Saturday, and that was when Walla Walla was still the 2nd boat on the run. I also peeked at the Kingston ferry cams last Sunday, and the lot looked nearly empty in the middle of the afternoon, but that was still when Walla Walla was on the route. Kitsap didn't replace her until late afternoon.
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Post by EGfleet on May 8, 2009 16:12:37 GMT -8
Just wondering what kind of traffic has been experienced on the Edmonds-Port Townsend route this week. Has the vessel MV Kitsap been running at capacity or close to capacity? Is it mostly truck traffic? It would also be interesting to know if any of the regular WSF routes besides Edmonds-Kingston have been impacted by the bridge closing? A quick glance at the holding lots at 5:13 PM shows Edmonds empty and Kingston all but empty.
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Post by whidbeyislandguy on May 15, 2009 17:49:28 GMT -8
Well I guess I shall keep doing this as I have gotten so many PVT Messages Emails and Even Snail Mail Post-cards.. I thank you... So Once WSF Took over we had as follows.. The Rust marks on the Rhoddy here, are from an actual photo. Thanks Evergreen Fleet I hope you all keep Enjoying them, I will keep working ..
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Post by whidbeyislandguy on May 16, 2009 14:13:58 GMT -8
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Post by EGfleet on May 21, 2009 7:19:30 GMT -8
Well, at least now we know the Steilacoom II isn't going anywhere... Extra summer runs on Port Townsend-Keystone ferryBy Barney Burke of The Leader Washington State Ferries has added more round trips on the Port Townsend-Keystone ferry for this summer, June 21 through Sept. 26. The service change announced is as follows: • One additional round trip on Thursday evenings. • Two additional round trips on Friday, Saturday and Sunday evenings. • One additional, early round trip on Monday mornings. The additional trips provide the same service as in the summer of 2008, said WSF spokeswoman Laura Johnson. This is the second year without two ferries on the route, following the sudden retirement of all four Steel Electric ferries in November 2007 due to rusty hulls. Under construction now is a 64-car ferry based on the Island Home of Massachusetts; it is expected to be in service sometime in the summer of 2010. Meanwhile, Pierce County officials have said they intend to sign a lease extension allowing the use of the ferry Steilacoom II through August 2010.Funding for the extra service this summer comes from the 2009-11 budget just passed by the Legislature, said Johnson. A proposal to offer additional sailings in spring of this year was not funded, she noted. The additional runs will appear in the printed summer schedule and on the WSF website, www.wsdot.wa.gov/ferries/schedule.
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Post by SS San Mateo on Sept 1, 2009 14:06:07 GMT -8
Have there any proposals made to have the Steilacoom II as a 2'nd vessel during the summer until the 2'nd new vessel (which is listed as a B Class vessel in the contracts section on the WSF website) goes into service?
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FNS
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Post by FNS on Sept 1, 2009 14:19:31 GMT -8
Have there any proposals made to have the Steilacoom II as a 2'nd vessel during the summer until the 2'nd new vessel (which is listed as a B Class vessel in the contracts section on the WSF website) goes into service? My guess is that the STEILACOOM II will leave for her home waters in Pierce County once the new one arrives.
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Post by Barnacle on Sept 1, 2009 14:38:36 GMT -8
I'm almost certain that it will return to Steilacoom. It's my understanding that Pierce County has been making rather pointed remarks about wanting their boat back.
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Post by ferryfanatic on Sept 1, 2009 14:48:08 GMT -8
I can't blame Pierce County for wanting her back. She has probably has spent more time at PTK than at home. Not to say that the lease money they are getting must be nice and the state is require to maintain the boat.
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FNS
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Post by FNS on Mar 25, 2010 13:42:46 GMT -8
Found this on the Port Townsend Leader.
That's one way of washing your car with sea water.
That STEILACOOM II has gone through a lot of different conditions. I've been in this kind of one aboard the OLYMPIC on the Clinton run in the early 1970s and the KULSHAN in the mid 1970s.
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