West Coast Steamships - general thread

[Neil]

For those interested in the CPR, Union Steamships, and other now departed carriers, and those interested in the broader picture of how the steamship helped our coast develop, this exhibit at Victoria's Maritime Museum sounds really worthwhile. I know I'll be wanting to get over and see it.
www.saanichnews.com/portals-code/list.cgi?paper=28&cat=23&id=988821&more=

mmbc.bc.ca/happening.html

I haven't gone over for the Titanic exhibit; I've been kind of conflicted about whether it's legitimate history, or tacky profiteering from a plundered grave site. Not sure about that one.

[Low Light Mike]

Thanks for sharing that info on the POSH exhibit.

I couldn't find any mention of how long this steamship exhibit runs for. Do you have any idea?

That exhibit announcement has me interested..... My inlaw-roots include the Union Steamships: my late father-in-law travelled on them, between Cortes and Powell River & Vancouver....and his family lost a wagon during the Cheslakee sinking at Van Anda (later salvaged...)

As an aside on this topic, when my late father-in-law was living his last years in the dementia ward of a seniors home, in his confused state, he often thought that he was back on a Union Steamship. I suppose that the long hallways and resident-rooms reminded him of a ships hallway and cabins. When the nurse or visitor came, he'd ask to see the "Captain".



=====================
re the Titanic exhibit, I haven't gone yet, and will likely delay this until after summer. I know someone who's gone, and it appears that the "live drama" aspect of issuing each person a ticket with a passenger's identity is part of the intrigue for some of the customers. The lady that I know said that the drama/emotion that she felt was worth it.

For me, I'd rather visit the cemetery in Halifax, to get a good dose of drama & emotion from that historical event.

[Retrovision]

hornbyguy said:

pscurr said:

Early transportation of the coast. Three vessels arriving at Sturdies Bay. Do not know the names other than the Motor Princess.

For the No. 3 photo, see p. 92, Princess Story, (Hacking & Lamb), or p. 7, Pacific Princesses, (Turner).

Looks like the R.P. Rithet, the "largest and finest of all the sternwheelers on the British Columbia coast". Built Victoria, 1882.

R.P. Rithet, pride of the Pioneer Line fleet for her short time before amalgamation with the Hudson's Bay Company fleet to form the Canadian Pacific Navigation Company, predecessor to the CPR's British Columbia Coast Steamship Service's famous Princess fleet...

From: "The Princess Story: A Century and a Half of West Coast Shipping" by Norman R. Hacking (Including this passage and the entire first half that it's in) and W. Kaye Lamb, Page 91...

While his competitors fell by the wayside, Captain Irving and the Pioneer Line flourished. Despite the loss of the Elizabeth J. Irving, the family was able to finance construction of the magnificent R.P. Rithet, named after Captain Irving's brother-in-law, and the most elaborate passenger steamer yet to appear in B.C. waters. At this period it was reported in the press that the Irving family had sold some of their land in East Portland for $65,000, which doubtless helped finance the new ship. R.P. Rithet, who had married the sister of Mrs. John Irving, was also a merchant prince of the day, a partner in the firm of Welsh, Rithet and Co., of San Francisco and Victoria, with big sugar interests in the Hawaiian Islands.

The R.P. Rithet was 177 feet long, and was equipped with all the plush and gilt magnificence of her day, with gingerbread work to set off her pilot-house. Built and designed by Alexander Watson, she was christened at Victoria on April 20, 1882, by Captain Irving's sister, Mrs. T.L. Briggs.

She is best described in the lush prose of the period by the New Westminster British Columbian on her maiden arrival on June 10, 1882.
"Perfect in lines and model, she is finished and found in every respect in first class style. The carving in the saloons is elaborate and ornate, while the upholstering, gilding and general finish are simply gorgeous. The staterooms are spacious and convenient, provided with luxurious spring beds and fittings. In short, in the perfection of her lines, the completeness of her appointments, and the elegance of design and finish, the R.P. Rithet is truly a floating palace. She is provided with the patent hydraulic steering gear, and is brilliantly lighted throughout with electricity, having two powerful head-lights placed in huge reflectors. These lights shone with dazzling brilliancy as the noble steamer came into our harbour on Saturday night, the New Westminster Militia Band, who were on board, playing a lively air . . . The wharves were literally crowded with people who went down to welcome Captain Irving and congratulate him upon his last great triumph in marine architecture."

This last great triumph proved to be the apotheosis of the Pioneer Line, which combined its ships with those of the Hudon's Bay Company early in 1883 to found the Canadian Pacific Navigation Co. Ltd.

R.P. Rithet:




-

And to the same post Neil was referring to, here's a broad view of the Princess Royal...

[pscurr]

Thanks for all the feedback. Good information. I did not realize that paddlewheelers plied the coast. Familiar with the interior boats, but not the ones that made stops on Galiano Island. Thanks again.

[Retrovision]

Back to what this thread of ours stands for, eh


From my newfound favorite historic account of our naval history, "Steamships and Motorships of the West Coast" By Richard M. Benson, "Copyright 1968 by Superior Publishing Company, Seattle Washington" (I count myself as fortunate to hold a first edition , though The Haunted Bookshop of Sidney can take most of the credit including for immaculately wrapping up my copy in plastic and offering it for a mere $20)



First, the great 1927-built Redwood Empire before conversion from an SF bay ferry to become the Quinault that we cherished before her recent retirement

www.ferrypicsbygraham.fotopic.net/p49253925.html

Next let's move on to 1947's Black Ball baby, and subsequent flagship let alone B.C.'s Chinook II and eventually Sechelt Queen, the sleek and so streamlined Chinook

www.ferrypicsbygraham.fotopic.net/p49253923.html
...Forgive the blur, this is her only appearance in this fine publication of yore.

...And we can't forget our classic Kalakala, first and only streamlined ferry (such a popular idea of railways at the time, I among so many are thankful of the shortlived fad extended to the waterways offered even to the former SF ferry burnt hull Peralta (Yes, the same name as one of the famous breakwater hulks at Powell River)

www.ferrypicsbygraham.fotopic.net/p49253923.html

And now for some present yet ever-changing and, in addition to not being recognizable, not near static nautical sights, specifically this view of Victoria's Inner Harbour as seen by Herrington (2nd edition of Beautiful British Columbia Magazine, 1960, Page 13) including the venerable Iroquois in her last form as a cargo carrying, though still sailing, mule for Black Ball.
www.ferrypicsbygraham.fotopic.net/p49253920.html


Speaking of the devil, so to speak, here's the vererable Iroquois, first as SS (steamship), built for the Grate Lakes originally, eventually being rebuilt to look nothing like her former self a a freight ferry jockey for Black Ball...
www.ferrypicsbygraham.fotopic.net/p49253921.html


...And last in her last form before scrapping as a diesel freight ferry, though quite unrecognizable compared to her original form us true fans would have appreciated her extension of life despite deformation.
www.ferrypicsbygraham.fotopic.net/p49253922.html


Many more images and even quotes soon from this same publication.

[EGfleet]

tsawwassenterminal said:

B

Speaking of the devil, so to speak, here's the vererable Chinook, first as SS (steamship), built for the Grate Lakes originally...
www.ferrypicsbygraham.fotopic.net/p49253921.html


...And last as, though quite unrecognizable, freight jockey for the Black Ball company, however us true fans would have appreciated her extension of life despite deformation.
www.ferrypicsbygraham.fotopic.net/p49253922.html



chance to relay some historical notes later, but I felt these images were paramount among your and my desires to be published. Many more images and accounts soon from this same publication.

I think you meant Iroquois here and not Chinook.

[Queen of Nanaimo Teen]

Recently I have been doing tons of reasearch on all the ships that operated on the West Coast Early on. But it has been really frustrating becuase I keep finding more and more! I would like to know if these are all the big companies that operated on the west coast early on.

Union Steamships Ladies (and others)
Canadian Pacific's Princesses
Grand trunk Pacific's Prince's
BC Ferries's Queen's
Blackball's ships....
Are these all the major ones?

[bcfcbccsscollector]

A couple others were:

Kitsap County Transportation Company
Puget Sound Navigation Company (Later Black Ball/WSF)

looking under the former names might provide some more details.

Steve (Evergreenfleet) could provide more information on these I am most definite.

[Neil]

You might look into Coast Ferries, and Gulf Islands Ferry Co., although they were much smaller, and there's not a lot of information around.

Since you live in the Okanagan, a good book to read, if you haven't already, is "Sternwheelers and Steam Tugs", by Robert D. Turner, which highlights the CPR's lake services. Some of those boats were pretty spectacular. Another, smaller book is "Paddlewheels on the Frontier", by Art Downs.

[EGfleet]

bcfcbccsscollector said:

A couple others were:

Kitsap County Transportation Company
Puget Sound Navigation Company (Later Black Ball/WSF)

looking under the former names might provide some more details.

Steve (Evergreenfleet) could provide more information on these I am most definite.

Sorry, I belatedly found this thread....

Let me see...well here are some of the Puget Sound ones:

Alaska Steamship Company
Puget Sound Navigation
Washington Navigation Company
Sound Ferries Company
Kitsap County Transportation Company
Olympic Ferries Inc
Pacific Coast Steamship Company
Admiral Line
Pacific Steamship Company
Canadian Pacific Railway
Union Steamships Ltd
Grand Trunk Pacific
Columbia River Navigation Co
... to name a few. Many of these were bought up by Puget Sound Navigation...KCTC, Sound Ferries, and a few others came under the Black Ball flag.

Two excellent sources might help you out: Pacific Steamboats: From Sidewheeler to Motor Ferry and Pacific Coastal Liners both by Gordon Newell and Joe Williamson, circa the late 1950's (and not surprisingly, long out of print.)

Copies are still out there...try ebay or www.abe.com and they're still fairly affordable.

Hope that helps!

[Queen of Nanaimo Teen]

I agree that the Maggie was special, but I like the older CP steamer's better. ie: Princess Adelaide Charlotte Joan are a few I really like!

Also refering to my first post, I forgot to mention CP's 4 Duchesses. They may not have stayed Duchesses for long, but they are cool anyways. For those of you who don't know, they are: Duchess of Atholl, Bedford, York, Richmond. These ships were later renamed as Empresses.

[Low Light Mike]

History factoid re CP ship "Duchess of York":

- She was built in 1928.

Her namesake, the person who had the "Duchess of York" title during 1928 was Lady Elizabeth Bowes-Lyon, who's husband would later become King George VI, making her Queen.

She would eventually be known a "Queen Mother" to my generation.



------------------

In 1938, while Duchess of York was still sailing for CP, the "Duke of York" was a battleship in the Royal Navy.

[Queen of Nanaimo Teen]

Thanks for the extra info Flugel! One question though, why is there the name Duchess of Atholl?

[Low Light Mike]

klitsa said:

Thanks for the extra info Flugel! One question though, why is there the name Duchess of Atholl?

Here's some info on the lady who was honoured by this ship's name:

Katherine Marjory Stewart-Murray, Duchess of Atholl (1874-1960), Public servant; daughter of Sir James Ramsey

Public servant; often remembered as 'the Red Duchess' , in 1923 she became the first woman member from Scotland elected to the House of Commons. As a self-proclaimed crusader against international cruelty, she visited Spain and became actively involved in the care of Republican refugees. Her open criticism of the Conservative government's toleration of Franco cost her her position as party whip.

[BrianWilliams]

Bravo, Fluge!

Lady Marjory, late Duchess of Atholl, was an amazing, courageous woman. Perhaps she was wrong about the best way for 20th century society, but she heartened the debate.

[Low Light Mike]

brianwilliams said:

Bravo, Fluge!

Lady Marjory, late Duchess of Atholl, was an amazing, courageous woman. Perhaps she was wrong about the best way for 20th century society, but she heartened the debate.

I wonder if she was a believer in "B.O.L.T." (biology of life today).....or was that exclusive to Agnes in BC ?

But seriously now, this thread is an example that an interest in ships, and the origin of a ship's name, can teach you some interesting history.

[WettCoast]

Do you think that 50 years from now that some mythical Coastal Inspiration Teen will make inquiries as to the history of the name of his ship?

[Low Light Mike]

The future FlugelHorn of "50 years from now" would likely answer as follows:

- Coastal Inspiration's name was inspired by the name of a pop song on the album "Chicago 17".

- Coastal Celebration's name was inspired by the name of a pop song by the group "Kool and the Gang".

- Coastal Renaissance's name was inspired by the name of a hotel.

[BrianWilliams]

Grrr....

Pardon my grouchiness, but I'll bet that most Canadians already think our icebreaker CGS Pierre Radisson was named for a hotel chain.

Grrr.

[BreannaF]

tsawwassenterminal said:

millbay said:

Very, very nice photos of this classic old ship...

How I would have loved to have been able to travel on those ships and see them from the inside instead of just in pictures.

You're not alone there, certainly. Of the things that I dwell on and lament too much I'd have to say that the speed with which our coastal liners were taken away from us - seemingly under similar circumstances as the loss of trams and streetcars in North America - and their lack of real reprive tops the list. If any one thing comes before that on the list, it might be the lack of public and political will to preserve our nautical heritage.

Sorry, gotta say something. I've been thinking this through for two days now.......

We have had posts on this forum over time that have asked why these fine passenger ships could not have continued, or alternatively, why we don't have a ferry or steamship or some form of water transportation between Seattle and Vancouver. The answer, my friends, is the automobile.

As recently as the 1950's (and arguably into the 1970's for any point North of Vancouver), if a traveler wanted to get from one city to another in our region, they would find a train or a ship (the public transport of the day) to take them there. Whether a person were a tourist or a business traveler, the normal situation was to find which steamer was traveling in your direction and book the space. I suppose life was slower then.

As we got to the late 1950's and the 1960's, technology and culture brought us some big changes. One was that in 1940, we were spread out in many smaller towns because farming and natural resources were the industry most people worked in, and many smaller towns were needed to have people living in all those areas. Secondly, the automobile was coming of age and better roads were being built. once everyone has access to a car and a good road to drive it on, it became more acceptable to abandon the little towns and gather in the cities.

This also meant that if you or I wanted to take a holiday in Seattle (for the BC people) or in Vancouver (for the WA people), it was just a matter of getting in the car and doing the drive. And if we didn't want to drive, then the good roads made bus transportation more efficient than the steam ship.

And all those business travelers? Well, they are not taking the steamer anymore, either. Many are also making the drive. But, of course, most are taking another type of ship to travel between cities. this would be the kind of ship that often sports the name "Horizon Air" or "Air Canada Jazz" on the sides. Like it or not, business people going to Prince Rupert are not taking the QPR or the NorAd to PR, they are flying there.

This is not at all to say that the ferries are an anachronism. They serve an important purpose in BC and in Puget Sound. But the steamship is a mode of transportation from our past, and it is not likely that a similar service will be started anytime soon.

And. Hey. History is my thing. I would want to see one of these icons of our heritage preserved for posterity as much as anyone else. Sadly, I don't think there are too many of us with a like mind out there. What a shame.

[Ferryman]

Today I was driving down East Columbia St and the Brunette Avenue out of New Westminster, and I noticed some sort of old steamer tied up along the Fraser River. It almost looks like it was set up for dredging maybe. It has a yellow funnel with a red maple leaf on the center of it. I don't have a photo of it, but would anyone have any ideas as to which ship it is, and if whether or not it was a Ferry?

[kerryssi]

There is an article in today's Times Colonist under This Day In History which some might find interesting.
Briefly...... On March 3 1909 a ferry service was started with the steamer Don. She went from Oak Bay (near Victoria) to Sidney, James Island, Saturna, Mayne, Pender and Saltspring Islands and returned the next day. She was a former naval pinnace and had been fitted up to carry 20 passengers and light freight. She was operated by B.W. Buller. Capt Maile had charge of the vessel. It travelled three times per week during the spring and summer months.

[Salt Chucker]

Today I was driving down East Columbia St and the Brunette Avenue out of New Westminster, and I noticed some sort of old steamer tied up along the Fraser River. It almost looks like it was set up for dredging maybe. It has a yellow funnel with a red maple leaf on the center of it. I don't have a photo of it, but would anyone have any ideas as to which ship it is, and if whether or not it was a Ferry?

I think you saw Samson V, a sternwheel snagpuller that's now a museum. She's being moored there while her usual berth is being dredged. Check out more info at samsonmuseum.org

[Retrovision]

There are indeed numerous vessels of the Samson name, most if not all having the Fraser River in common mostly.

My dad, about two decades ago or more, took part in making a documentary about what I'm fairly sure is the one that can - or atleast could for many years up to when I last saw her as you can see passing by on the Millenium Line between the Patullo Bridge and Sapperton Station - be seen moored on the Fraser River at New Westminster. The Samson that he helped document was tasked with removing dangerous shipping hazards in the Fraser such as deadheads primarily (waterlogged logs that still float at one end).

[Low Light Mike]

Here's a place to post this 1-off news item re the Valencia......

www.westcoaster.ca/modules/AMS/article.php?storyid=4442
===============
By Westcoaster.ca Staff

ALBERNI-CLAYOQUOT – The sinking of the SS Valencia off the West Coast of Vancouver Island in 1906 was named an event of national historic significance Friday.

(click on the above link to see the rest of the story.......)
----------