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Post by jcachristian2000 on Dec 16, 2005 12:32:43 GMT -8
On today's Noon News hour (Friday) it was reported that Washington Marine Group plans on returning the Pacificats under a new name to service on a run from North Vancouver to Downtown Nanaimo.
No other info was available at this time.
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Post by Ferryman on Dec 16, 2005 13:29:47 GMT -8
I wonder if they're going to build new terminals, or run them on the run they were originally on?!
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Post by Jcachristian on Dec 16, 2005 15:06:45 GMT -8
Let me clarify: The Pacificats were on the Departure Bay to Horseshoe Bay run with BC Ferries. Washington Marine wants to run them from North Vancouver to Downtown Nanaimo. Persumably a new dock would have to be built in North Vancouver and either a brand new terminal will have to be built or have major modifications to thier current terminal beside the Nanaimo Harbour Gabriola Terminal done. The Pacificats will not use BC Ferries Facilities from what I heard on the news.  |
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Post by Ferryman on Dec 16, 2005 15:15:50 GMT -8
That would be really interesting to see then. The only thing is..where would they build a new terminal in North Van...there isn't alot of space left besides that contaminated land below the Lions Gate Bridge, which is on a Native Reserve anyway I think. But whatever it is that they do, Departure Bay and Horseshoe Bay have enough traffic to deal with.
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Post by Doug on Dec 16, 2005 15:51:38 GMT -8
This is a good idea...Cascade will love it. "BC Ferries should open up the market". Well perhaps BC Ferries doesn't have to as they will have a competition anyways with new ports. I heard the same rumour from Scott a few weeks ago, but didn't know if it was reality yet. I will continue on this later.
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Post by Dane on Dec 16, 2005 15:53:36 GMT -8
My feeling is any FastCat service wouldnt be a direct competition to BC Ferries. I mean BCFS being the only car ferry operator it is sort of automatic competition but the Fast Cats are a tourist attraction on to themselves (Hell I'll be there for the first day). The cost to travel on it would be high, I suspect. If they're to offer a premium service (I'm only speculating now) I hope they do something to make the ships more spacious and enjoyable to be on. This has the potential to cut my Qualicum Beach-Deep Cove commute down signifigantly. A trip I make about every two weeks. And I know you'll all love this! en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fast_Ferry_Scandal |
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Post by NMcKay on Dec 16, 2005 15:58:10 GMT -8
probably the same cost as Hlynx
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Post by Dane on Dec 16, 2005 16:07:31 GMT -8
Heres an article from CBC. Ussually their links die after a few days www.cbc.ca/bc/story/bc_fastcats20051216.htmlThe article is flawed, however. The FastCats (2 of 3) did in fact see regualr service. The Explorer held down a regular run for quite some time before they were given the axe. Also, the third vessel was never a BC Ferry. |
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Post by Low Light Mike on Dec 16, 2005 22:53:00 GMT -8
The Nanaimo downtown terminal might be the old CP dock by Port Place mall.
Seaspan uses it for the rail ferry, and I think Seaspan is part of WMG......so maybe that dock would make sense.
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Post by Scott on Dec 16, 2005 23:06:44 GMT -8
The guy from the Nanaimo Chamber of Commerce said a few things on the World Today on CKNW. Like Dane said, he said it wouldn't quite be "direct" competition... he figured there would be enough "new" business created by this that BC Ferries wouldn't be too much affected by it. He also said that WMG was trying to stay close to BC Ferries in terms of fares.
It has a possibility to succeed I suppose. Like Dane, I'd be there on day one (or soon thereafter) to see how the competition is... but like I've said before, as a passenger the PacifiCats were about the worst ferries I'd ever been on when there was a full load... and even when there wasn't, they're still nothing special inside. In my opinion there are lots of downsides as far as the passenger experience goes. Maybe if they're not operated as fast ferries, you'll be able to stay on the car deck???
Anyways, it's all speculation. Someone in WMG must have leaked it out to the news.. maybe to see what the reaction was among the public. From what I head, it was mostly along the lines of "BC Ferries needs competition... I hope it works". More than a few people laughing about how ironic it will be if they do come back. They're still doing a business analysis on whether or not to run them... and from what I heard, it's only one of the options they're looking at over the next few months.
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Post by Retrovision on Dec 17, 2005 20:27:55 GMT -8
The Nanaimo downtown terminal might be the old CP dock by Port Place mall. Seaspan uses it for the rail ferry, and I think Seaspan is part of WMG......so maybe that dock would make sense. Although this has (I'm sure) been mentioned in the other thread regarding this subject, I thought it was a good idea to clarify here, as well: The terminal used at the Nanaimo end of the route (according to most media reports on the matter that I've read) will be BCF's Duke Point terminal. ------------------------------------------------------- Also, another mis-print, this time in the Globe and Mail, states that the terminal on the Vancouver end of the route would be in downtown Vancouver, when it's been clearly stated that it will be in North Vancouver. |
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Doug
Voyager 
Lurking within...the car deck.
Posts: 2,213
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Post by Doug on Dec 17, 2005 21:41:11 GMT -8
Duke Point only has one berth. The terminal should be in downtown Nanaimo...it would probably help recover the low economy, and, it's a downtown-downtown service. Why go from downtown North Vancouver-Duke Point, 20 km southeast of Nanaimo?
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Post by Retrovision on Dec 17, 2005 22:01:08 GMT -8
well, here's the link to the CBC story: www.cbc.ca/bc/story/bc_fastcats20051216.htmlIn the first paragraph it talks about Duke Point being used: "The company that bought the three controversial fast ferries has confirmed it's considering putting the catamarans into service between North Vancouver and Duke Point on Vancouver Island." Duke Point does make some sense, as it sounds like the proposal is for 6 round trips per day, and Duke Point is only used by BCF for about 1/2 an hour out of every 2 1/2 hours during the day. As for a terminal, Duke Point is already built, and BCF is obliged to let competitors use it. Also, (wishful thinking for WMG) Duke Point was originally built to easily accomodate the construction of a second berth (a picture of mine sort of demonstrates this: community.webshots.com/photo/506349204/507750316PsKKGk ). |
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Post by Ferryman on Dec 17, 2005 22:01:15 GMT -8
There isn't alot of room in Downtown Nanaimo I don't think. Because there's the Gabriola ferry terminal, and then the rail yard to get on to the Seaspan ferries. If anything, I think Nanaimo has been booming alot lately. The last time I was over, things were improving fast. Like how they finally did a bit of a renovation to Harbour Park Mall, which is now Port Place Mall I think, and they've demolished a bunch of buildings in the old part of Nanaimo as well to make way for newer nicer ones. Plus it looks like they're finally doing something with that conferance building I think it is, which is right beside the Harbourlynx terminal I think. I bet if they put the Terminal at Duke Point, the City of Nanaimo would extend they're transit out there as there would be two ways to connect to Vancouver there.
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Doug
Voyager
Lurking within...the car deck.
Posts: 2,213
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Post by Doug on Dec 17, 2005 22:07:02 GMT -8
Graham: Washington Marine Group (I believe) operates the port on Duke Point. The Duke Point ferry terminal isn't on Duke Point at all; it is on "Jack Point", just north of Duke. The port south of the ferry terminal is on Duke Point. I am not sure if they own it or not, but it is probably a more feasible location (besides the fact that it is more inland, but if the Cats will operate in Burrard Inlet, they can operate there). I believe the port is called Harmac. Chris: you are right that Nanaimo has been booming - but to the north. the central part is dead, or so I hear. Why not clear a little squatter land for a new ferry terminal?  |
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Post by Retrovision on Dec 17, 2005 22:08:56 GMT -8
I bet if they put the Terminal at Duke Point, the City of Nanaimo would extend they're transit out there as there would be two ways to connect to Vancouver there. I certainly hope they will, as they should have when the terminal was originally built. It seems obvious to me that there were some back-room dealings between parties such as translink, the GVRD and Nanaimo (possibly others) to not make route 30 attractive to transit users. |
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Post by Retrovision on Dec 17, 2005 22:12:52 GMT -8
Graham: Washington Marine Group (I believe) operates the port on Duke Point. The Duke Point ferry terminal isn't on Duke Point at all; it is on "Jack Point", just north of Duke. The port south of the ferry terminal is on Duke Point. I am not sure if they own it or not, but it is probably a more feasible location (besides the fact that it is more inland, but if the Cats will operate in Burrard Inlet, they can operate there). I believe the port is called Harmac. I wasn't sure either, but the clincher for me was this line in the CBC story, where the term "passenger" is used: "Washington Marine Group CEO Steve Frasher says the passenger service to the Island is one of two options being evaluated." This line sticks out in my mind because I've always been under the impression that the more likely operation run by WMG would be for commercial traffic only. |
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Post by Doug on Dec 17, 2005 22:14:53 GMT -8
One other note about the "new" Pacificat service. This is not new at all. I heard skeptical information about them running the Pacificats between the Mainland and Island probably over a year ago. The landing in the Island was, indeed, supposed to be at Duke Point. At that time, they were supposed to build a new terminal around the port. However, that plan became obsolete as they were going to send them to the east coast to be casinos. (This was absolute certain, so I don't know what happened to the plans.) Well, I guess that old plan lives again. |
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Post by Political Incorrectness on Dec 19, 2005 9:47:36 GMT -8
Cascade, they did replace the original engines with engines that cut fuel consumption by 25%, wake/wash I have no idea because I am not that much of an expert. Why would you run a Pacificat to Prince Rupert from Vancouver when there would not be much demand, unless most people who go on the Inside Passage cruise go from Vancouver then, it would make sense to relocate and maybe start an Inside Passage route from Vancouver.
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Post by Ferryman on Dec 19, 2005 9:48:19 GMT -8
I guess next year will be the 5th year, because I don't think they've been in at least part time service since 2001.
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Post by NMcKay on Dec 19, 2005 11:10:38 GMT -8
and apparently in the last six months they managed to sneak through the certifications, so they are now recertifided for Pax + Car Travel
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Post by NMcKay on Dec 19, 2005 11:30:24 GMT -8
yes. they were talking about that this morning on CKNW, and yes, they are going to be running @ a reduced rate, witha reduced amount of Pax (200 Cars and approx 100 Extra Foot Pax)
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Post by hergfest on Dec 19, 2005 12:02:43 GMT -8
I don't get it. What is the point of running Fastcats if they don't run at full speed? There is no advantage over taking BC Ferries, besides the drive to Horseshoe Bay. But if WMG uses Duke Point, then you have to drive all the way back into Naniamo, so you have to drive the same distance anyways. Doesn't seem like an advantage to me.
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Doug
Voyager
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Posts: 2,213
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Post by Doug on Dec 19, 2005 20:40:16 GMT -8
The reduced speed will be no faster than the typical Horseshoe Bay-Departure Bay ferry. If you look at the geography, though, why would you climb north to North Vancouver and end up south of Nanaimo on the Island? Why not just go via Tsawwassen if you want to go to the south...it would be just as fast. If you want to go up-Island, you'd travel via Horseshoe Bay. Thus the current BC Ferry terminals in the Lower Mainland seem to be in pretty good locations if you ask me.
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Post by Dane on Dec 19, 2005 23:01:05 GMT -8
I don't get it. What is the point of running Fastcats if they don't run at full speed? There is no advantage over taking BC Ferries, besides the drive to Horseshoe Bay. But if WMG uses Duke Point, then you have to drive all the way back into Naniamo, so you have to drive the same distance anyways. Doesn't seem like an advantage to me. Because they can make money on major assets they got for almost nothing. |
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