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Post by Scott on Oct 25, 2013 20:08:30 GMT -8
Not only is the 99 B-line the busiest route in the system, according to the Translink ridership numbers, the #9 (the regular-stop Broadway bus) is the third busiest, with 8.8 million boardings. Add that to the 17 million of the B-line and you have a very busy corridor. Even more when you consider that the #14 runs along the same route from Granville St. to UBC and is also a busy run. Even with Skytrain to UBC, the #9 will be necessary of course, to fill in the gaps between stations.
Having the Skytrain run to UBC would also alleviate pressure on other UBC routes that don't run the Broadway corridor, such as the #84, #41, #25, #33, #49... all of which run from Skytrain Stations to UBC.
PS. I wonder how they calculate the boardings? The majority of people getting on the bus use "flash media" which of course doesn't keep track of numbers getting on and off the bus.
- John H
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Post by Cable Cassidy on Oct 26, 2013 21:16:53 GMT -8
PS. I wonder how they calculate the boardings? The majority of people getting on the bus use "flash media" which of course doesn't keep track of numbers getting on and off the bus. CMBC uses "traffic checkers", dedicated staff hired to check the loads of buses. For example, they'll send checkers out at random spots and days, gather numbers, and then use that as an estimate for what ridership is like over the year. Some coaches do have automated passenger counters, look above the front and rear doors and you can see the little lasers pointed down  |
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Post by Blue Bus Fan on Oct 27, 2013 15:27:37 GMT -8
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Neil
Voyager 
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Post by Neil on Oct 27, 2013 20:46:10 GMT -8
AC: I was looking back over the last several pages, and it seems to me that random shots of buses in traffic are making this thread waaay more cumbersome than it needs to be. And, if we start highlighting each route with multiple photos it will end up being a hundred pages long. Visual interest really counts for something. |
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Post by Mike C on Oct 27, 2013 22:38:17 GMT -8
AC: I was looking back over the last several pages, and it seems to me that random shots of buses in traffic are making this thread waaay more cumbersome than it needs to be. And, if we start highlighting each route with multiple photos it will end up being a hundred pages long. Visual interest really counts for something. Just to add to this, we would prefer images that are unique or otherwise significant. Several of us, myself included, commute on public transit every single day, and random buses in traffic is pretty much our daily experience. |
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Post by Blue Bus Fan on Mar 19, 2014 15:46:34 GMT -8
Two of the Refurbish Mark I for the SkyTrain. I am post these photos because to compare the refurbish Mark I to the non-refurbish cars.    |
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Neil
Voyager
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Post by Neil on Mar 19, 2014 16:42:33 GMT -8
Two of the Refurbish Mark I for the SkyTrain. I am post these photos because to compare the refurbish Mark I to the non-refurbish cars. Could you please read your stuff over before you post? Is there any difference in these cars, on the outside? I don't see any change. |
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Post by Mike C on Mar 28, 2014 8:20:03 GMT -8
The 99 B-Line is the busiest bus route in North America, and the lineup shows that. The passenger queue for the bus at all stops, especially at Commercial-Broadway station, are starting to pose a problem of blocking the sidewalk. So TransLink hired firm Nelson/Nygard to investigate a solution. Instead of expirementing with different simulations on a computer, they went to Commercial station, and brought along chalk, tape, and stanchion fencing to see first hand how riders react to different methods. By day's end, they had successfully determined what works, and what doesn't. Read onward here: m.theatlanticcities.com/commute/2014/03/watch-real-time-transit-planning-helps-north-americas-busiest-bus-line/8725/Some time-lapse videos of them toying with different lineup methods, and what crowds look like on the 99 on the average day |
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Post by northwesterner on Mar 28, 2014 8:46:45 GMT -8
The 99 B-Line is the busiest bus route in North America, and the lineup shows that. The passenger queue for the bus at all stops, especially at Commercial-Broadway station, are starting to pose a problem of blocking the sidewalk. So TransLink hired firm Nelson/Nygard to investigate a solution. Instead of expirementing with different simulations on a computer, they went to Commercial station, and brought along chalk, tape, and stanchion fencing to see first hand how riders react to different methods. By day's end, they had successfully determined what works, and what doesn't. Read onward here: m.theatlanticcities.com/commute/2014/03/watch-real-time-transit-planning-helps-north-americas-busiest-bus-line/8725/Some time-lapse videos of them toying with different lineup methods, and what crowds look like on the 99 on the average day Nelson/Nygard. a firm that uses identical methodology in every route planning consulting report they write (I've read more than a few over the years) actually did a real neat job with this experiment. |
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SolDuc
Voyager
West Coast Cyclist
SolDuc and SOBC - Photo by Scott
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Post by SolDuc on Mar 28, 2014 20:18:11 GMT -8
The 99 B-Line is the busiest bus route in North America, and the lineup shows that. The passenger queue for the bus at all stops, especially at Commercial-Broadway station, are starting to pose a problem of blocking the sidewalk. So TransLink hired firm Nelson/Nygard to investigate a solution. Instead of expirementing with different simulations on a computer, they went to Commercial station, and brought along chalk, tape, and stanchion fencing to see first hand how riders react to different methods. By day's end, they had successfully determined what works, and what doesn't. Read onward here: m.theatlanticcities.com/commute/2014/03/watch-real-time-transit-planning-helps-north-americas-busiest-bus-line/8725/Some time-lapse videos of them toying with different lineup methods, and what crowds look like on the 99 on the average day Now that's some interesting stuff! The lines can only make you guess the crowds. Can you actually board the bus once it has passed Commercial-Broadway? Now that needs Skytrain (or Goundtrain in this context). Some interesting stuff: - I like how the people make three lines for each door. Now that's something we don't have in Seattle. Since virtually all of the buses are pay-as-you-board, only a single line is formed, usually going towards the end of the bus. And even such lines are only found during peak, rarely off-peak and never on weekends. Bellevue TC or the transit tunnel have the finest examples in the region.  For the services that have all-door boarding, the crowd just waits at the stop then boards when it's time to go. No nice lines. I'm a big advocate of pay-at-the-station buses since they can essentially load twice the amount of people per door as pay-as-you-board (and quadruple it if there's two doors and so on). And it fills the back of the buses which otherwise tend to be empty. So many times I've heard the "please move back" announcement when there were even seats left in the back. It's just so efficient! - It's amusing to see how organized we are in the Pacific Northwest. We wait in lines without cutting, we wait for the next bus when it's full without making a cake out of it, we pay our fares (or at least most of the time, umum you know who you are). In France it's exactly the opposite. |
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Post by northwesterner on Mar 28, 2014 20:57:37 GMT -8
Well, there are stops west of Commercial on Broadway where you can, in theory, board a 99 B-Line. Quite a few years ago, they instituted a "99 Special" which operated non-stop from Broadway Station to UBC during peak hours. The theory was to get all the UBC bound students on their own bus, leaving room for the regular 99 to accommodate the passengers at the in between stops. Despite the logic of this service pattern, it did not last long. Translink claimed the time savings weren't that great and the service was underutilized. However, the buses didn't run that often, and many wouldn't wait for one to show up, and would just crowd onto the regular 99s instead. The lack of rapid transit along the Broadway corridor is the number one example of the failure of transit planning in the Greater Vancouver Region. I'm all for BRT and other bus based transit options (as, all too often, LRV or equivalent systems are pushed where they aren't needed) but the 99 B-Line has reached full capacity, at all hours of the day. On the other hand, the 9-Broadway trolley coach service, is by comparison, underutilized. I haven't been on, or even seen, a cram-packed coach on that route in years. One of the problems is Translink has not instituted a stop reduction program on many of the historical route corridors in Vancouver, and the 9-Broadway is painfully slow, stopping seemingly every block. If they could speed that service up a bit, it would take a load off the 99 (kind of ironic, as the 99 was created 16? years ago to take a load off of the 9). |
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Post by northwesterner on Mar 28, 2014 21:00:59 GMT -8
Some interesting stuff: - I like how the people make three lines for each door. Now that's something we don't have in Seattle. Since virtually all of the buses are pay-as-you-board, only a single line is formed, usually going towards the end of the bus. And even such lines are only found during peak, rarely off-peak and never on weekends. Bellevue TC or the transit tunnel have the finest examples in the region. For the services that have all-door boarding, the crowd just waits at the stop then boards when it's time to go. No nice lines. I'm a big advocate of pay-at-the-station buses since they can essentially load twice the amount of people per door as pay-as-you-board (and quadruple it if there's two doors and so on). And it fills the back of the buses which otherwise tend to be empty. So many times I've heard the "please move back" announcement when there were even seats left in the back. It's just so efficient! - It's amusing to see how organized we are in the Pacific Northwest. We wait in lines without cutting, we wait for the next bus when it's full without making a cake out of it, we pay our fares (or at least most of the time, umum you know who you are). In France it's exactly the opposite. The lines at Bellevue Transit Center are primarily for the 532/535 Sound Transit commuter services. I've never seen such orderly boarding on any other route, at any other busy stop, in the system. Must be something about the politeness of middle aged, suburbanite, tech worker commuters. It's a little TOO orderly for me... I usually stand off to the side and board last. |
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Post by Scott on Mar 28, 2014 22:14:48 GMT -8
On the other hand, the 9-Broadway trolley coach service, is by comparison, underutilized. I haven't been on, or even seen, a cram-packed coach on that route in years. One of the problems is Translink has not instituted a stop reduction program on many of the historical route corridors in Vancouver, and the 9-Broadway is painfully slow, stopping seemingly every block. If they could speed that service up a bit, it would take a load off the 99 (kind of ironic, as the 99 was created 16? years ago to take a load off of the 9).
By comparison to the 99-B line, yes the #9 Broadway bus may be underutilized, but you will probably be surprised to know it is the 3rd busiest route in the Translink system, after the #99 and the #20 Victoria. This is based on "Annual Boardings". The #9 Broadway may be painfully slow if you're in a hurry (most city routes are), but it obviously serves a lot of people very well if you look it it's utilization. People don't generally use it to get across town, but from home to the grocery store, school, the hospital, doctor, etc. It only runs the full length of the route (to UBC) at peak hours during the university fall and winter semesters. And again, a lot of the #9's (maybe half?) only run between Commercial and Granville during the non peak hours.
Taking a load off the #99 is almost stretched to the max, which is why there's so much talk about rapid transit to UBC. There's the #43 Express from Joyce to UBC along 41st Ave during peak times. Also the #84 from VCC Stn. to UBC is a semi-express bus that runs along 4th Ave. I'm assuming that both those routes were created to help relieve the #99, but it's obviously not enough.
This is an interesting page on Translink's website with documents containing statistics for each route: www.translink.ca/en/Plans-and-Projects/Managing-the-Transit-Network/Transit-System-Performance.aspx
- John H
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Post by Mike C on Mar 28, 2014 23:32:18 GMT -8
On the other hand, the 9-Broadway trolley coach service, is by comparison, underutilized. I haven't been on, or even seen, a cram-packed coach on that route in years. One of the problems is Translink has not instituted a stop reduction program on many of the historical route corridors in Vancouver, and the 9-Broadway is painfully slow, stopping seemingly every block. If they could speed that service up a bit, it would take a load off the 99 (kind of ironic, as the 99 was created 16? years ago to take a load off of the 9).
By comparison to the 99-B line, yes the #9 Broadway bus may be underutilized, but you will probably be surprised to know it is the 3rd busiest route in the Translink system, after the #99 and the #20 Victoria. This is based on "Annual Boardings". The #9 Broadway may be painfully slow if you're in a hurry (most city routes are), but it obviously serves a lot of people very well if you look it it's utilization. People don't generally use it to get across town, but from home to the grocery store, school, the hospital, doctor, etc. It only runs the full length of the route (to UBC) at peak hours during the university fall and winter semesters. And again, a lot of the #9's (maybe half?) only run between Commercial and Granville during the non peak hours.
Taking a load off the #99 is almost stretched to the max, which is why there's so much talk about rapid transit to UBC. There's the #43 Express from Joyce to UBC along 41st Ave during peak times. Also the #84 from VCC Stn. to UBC is a semi-express bus that runs along 4th Ave. I'm assuming that both those routes were created to help relieve the #99, but it's obviously not enough.
This is an interesting page on Translink's website with documents containing statistics for each route: www.translink.ca/en/Plans-and-Projects/Managing-the-Transit-Network/Transit-System-Performance.aspx
When I evaluate the busyness of a route, I tend not to look at the average boardings, but rather the average load numbers, especially when comparing local stop services to limited stop services. The 9 and 99 are two different animals - the 9 has more stops, so the passenger turnover rate will be way higher, even though the bus will have fewer people on board at any given time. This, along with a variety of other reasons, is why the 9 has not seen articulated trolleys (unlike the 3, 8, 10, and 20). With regard to 99 relief services, there is a long list of routes that attempt to relieve the 99 - specifically, these are the 25, 33, 43, 44 (Downtown), 49, 84, 258 (West Van), and 480 (Richmond). All of these routes see pretty extreme overcrowding during peak periods. All of such routes could be reduced to an extent, or outright eliminated, after real rapid transit begins on Broadway. Now that's some interesting stuff! The lines can only make you guess the crowds. Can you actually board the bus once it has passed Commercial-Broadway? Now that needs Skytrain (or Goundtrain in this context). During the AM rush, generally no - if a person wants to get to UBC from the Canada Line, they would take the 480, or from downtown, the 44. It is nearly impossible to board a 99 beyond Commercial/Bway station. |
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Post by northwesterner on Mar 30, 2014 1:00:37 GMT -8
When I evaluate the busyness of a route, I tend not to look at the average boardings, but rather the average load numbers, especially when comparing local stop services to limited stop services. The 9 and 99 are two different animals - the 9 has more stops, so the passenger turnover rate will be way higher, even though the bus will have fewer people on board at any given time. This, along with a variety of other reasons, is why the 9 has not seen articulated trolleys (unlike the 3, 8, 10, and 20). With regard to 99 relief services, there is a long list of routes that attempt to relieve the 99 - specifically, these are the 25, 33, 43, 44 (Downtown), 49, 84, 258 (West Van), and 480 (Richmond). All of these routes see pretty extreme overcrowding during peak periods. All of such routes could be reduced to an extent, or outright eliminated, after real rapid transit begins on Broadway. Agreed here. Passenger turnover on the 9 Broadway is extremely high and the average load numbers are low by comparison. However, Vancouver has not initiated a comprehensive stop reduction program (other than what occurred when Main(?) and Victoria(?) - my memory is foggy - received stop reductions at the same time the "bus bulges" were added to the zones) and this is a severe limitation on the local bus service in the city. These routes are much to busy to be stopping every block and a half. If the 9 stopped every 3-4 blocks, it could legitimately take a load off the 99, but as it is now, its just too slow to do much good. In Seattle, Metro has spent years targeting one route at time for stop reductions. Sadly this process requires a pretty intensive public outreach, and often times major routes have to undergo stop reductions in phases. Over the last 15 years, the 44 (which runs three blocks from my place) has seen 3 or 4 rounds of stop reductions and finally is operating pretty efficiently. The Aurora Ave service just went through another set of reductions when it was converted to Rapidride, but sadly, the 5 still needs to be targeted as there are way too many stops, slowing service down. |
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Post by Scott on Mar 30, 2014 1:46:40 GMT -8
Vancouver could use some stop reductions, for sure. There's a block northbound Knight just before Kingsway that has two stops on the same block. Many other places where there are stops one block apart. I don't think there's been much reduction done on Victoria Drive... Main Street maybe south of 41st Ave. Both those routes have stops almost every two blocks north of 41st. When the #10 went to articulated, they eliminated a few stops along Granville.
- John H
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Post by Cable Cassidy on Apr 1, 2014 19:43:21 GMT -8
As the Coast Mountain Bus Company fleet ages, buses are put through refurbishment. Although not as drastic as a ferry MLU, they can get any combination of new seats, floors, paint, signs ect. Here's S7338 FRESH out of refurbishment on the 335. This is a 1999 New Flyer D40LF  |
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Post by Dane on Apr 1, 2014 20:12:25 GMT -8
But I guess they don't get destination sign refurbishment!
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Post by Scott on Apr 3, 2014 15:26:58 GMT -8
Going back in time with a 1969 GMC S6H-4503A Glasstop "Fishbowl", only 1 of 35 ever made, at Tsawwassen  Full size - 1200x340Chris, I'm interested in the story behind this photo. When was it taken and what was the occasion? - John H |
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Post by Cable Cassidy on Apr 3, 2014 17:15:05 GMT -8
Chris, I'm interested in the story behind this photo. When was it taken and what was the occasion? This photo was taken back in September of 2011, shortly after purchase by it's forth owner. Originally ordered for a cruise line in Alaska (Holland I think?), it ran in Alaska shuttling cruise ship passengers for several years. When the bus was replaced, a private collector in Dallas bought the bus. He owned it for a few years and then sold it to someone in Vancouver who was running a vintage charter bus company. Sadly he never got a lot of interest in the bus for charters, and his drivers didn't like the old bus, so he sold it to a start-up charter company in the Fraser Valley. The owners at the time also had a 1991 New Flyer D40LF, and I had become quite good friends with them. In fact, I became the unofficial photographer which meant I was out with them and the buses quite a bit. So, when they bought the Fishbowl, guess who was there to take photos?  The day after the purchase, we took the bus for a cruise around Vancouver for various photos. Canada Place, Stanley Park, Granville Island and the Olympic Cauldron were all featured stops for photos. Tsawwassen ended up being a last second decision. I had a friend getting off a route 1 sailing that night and needed a ride into Skytrain, since we were in the area, I offered to have the bus pick him up. At the same time, we took a few minutes to snap some photos. Unfortunately, the bus never generated any charter business over the next year. The only times it went out on the road was when I covered insurance and fuel for a quick transit fan trip. We did take it to the Hells Gate Air-Tram in 2011, boy was that a fun ride. The loan used to purchase the bus expired and the bus was sold off to a movie bus company. Their New Flyer D40 ended up going to the same movie company a few months later, and now the company is "up in the air". |
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Post by Dane on Apr 3, 2014 19:56:09 GMT -8
A rare Chris bus typo! They owned a D40 But seriously that company seems poorly managed. Pro tip #1, don't post potential business opportunities on your corporate social media account before you've actually met the company and made arrangements. |
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Post by Cable Cassidy on Apr 4, 2014 7:57:58 GMT -8
A rare Chris bus typo! They owned a D40 But seriously that company seems poorly managed. Pro tip #1, don't post potential business opportunities on your corporate social media account before you've actually met the company and made arrangements. Whoops! I've been a little off this week haha
I'm reluctant to call them a "company" anymore. The main plan they had at first was a commuter bus from Chilliwack to Surrey via Abbotsford. Sure, the route COULD make money but they didn't have the capital to run the service at a loss for several months. For ridership to pick up, there needed to be consistency. Charters from their "Grand Pacific Coach" division was to cover for the losses with the Valley Express service, but charter work was few and far between.
They now run as "Compass Tours" with an early 1990's Ford shuttle bus.
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Post by Mike C on Apr 4, 2014 8:31:06 GMT -8
Chris, I'm interested in the story behind this photo. When was it taken and what was the occasion? This photo was taken back in September of 2011, shortly after purchase by it's forth owner. Originally ordered for a cruise line in Alaska (Holland I think?), it ran in Alaska shuttling cruise ship passengers for several years. When the bus was replaced, a private collector in Dallas bought the bus. He owned it for a few years and then sold it to someone in Vancouver who was running a vintage charter bus company. When we traveled to Alaska in 2008, they were still operating these buses as cruise ship shuttles in Juneau. They didn't seem specific to any cruise line (we were Royal Caribbean) so they were operating at full capacity on that stormy afternoon to and from all the ships in port. I never got to ride one unfortunately, since we were just being herded like cattle on to a plethora of coaches, but it was still pretty incredible to see them in revenue service, especially with such strength in numbers. |
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Post by Cable Cassidy on Apr 4, 2014 12:15:32 GMT -8
Now that I think about it, northwesterner might be able to shed some more light on the Fishbowls in Alaska. 208 probably left before he went up there though. |
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Post by WettCoast on Apr 4, 2014 13:23:07 GMT -8
I saw this bus at Ketchikan, AK, in August 2010...  Old bus & Celebrity cruise ship Mercury @ Ketchikan, AK - 13 August 2010 [ photo © WCK/JST] |
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