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Post by EGfleet on Dec 21, 2012 6:55:28 GMT -8
Audit shows asbestos troubles continued on BC FerriesBy Andrew MacLeod December 20, 2012 04:17 pm 5 comments A BC Ferries official worried in an email that continued problems with asbestos would leave the publicly owned company vulnerable to a $150,000 fine if its management of the material again comes to WorkSafe BC's attention. In 2010 the cafeteria on the Queen of Burnaby, running between Comox and Powell River, was temporarily closed while WorkSafe BC investigated and BC Ferries conducted tests on loose material. Inhaled asbestos fibres can cause various often fatal diseases, including asbestosis, lung cancer and mesothelioma. Documents released today under a freedom of information request by the B.C. Coastal Transportation Society show asbestos continued to be a concern two years later on the Queen of Burnaby and other vessels, including inaccurate labeling of where it is present. "I am concerned re the decaling issue on the ship not reflecting the inventory report," wrote Kathleen Aslett, BC Ferries' manager of occupational safety and health in a June 18, 2012 email about the Queen of Burnaby's asbestos safety audit. "This was a major issue that was sited in the fine administered against the ship in 2010 (and on the [ Quadra Queen II]) so to see that this remains a deficiency is troubling as a second inspection by WSBC where this remains an issue will bring an automatic $150,000 fine," she wrote to Darren Johnston, the executive director of safety and security for BC Ferries. "I cannot state how urgent this must be to get right. I strongly recommend that this be addressed without delay," Aslett said. A Sept. 4, 2012 report summarised the asbestos audits on 10 vessels. Seven of them had problems: the Queen of Alberni, the Mayne Queen, the Bowen Queen, the North Island Princess, the Tenaka, the Tachek and the Queen of Burnaby.Besides decaling, problems included: "Emergency response kits either absent or missing key components"; "Crew unfamiliar with Emergency Response equipment and duties"; "Lack of understanding of company Safety Manual Emergency Response Plan"; and "Dated Training; original contingency training is often years ago and the lack of updated training or refresher training being offered, seasoned crew find they are unprepared to respond to a spill or failing ACM material incident with knowledge and confidence." A WorkSafe BC official did not immediately respond to questions. In 2009 the Merchant Law Group filed a class action lawsuit against BC Ferries on behalf of people exposed to asbestos on the Quadra Queen II. thetyee.ca/Blogs/TheHook/Transportation/2012/12/20/AsbestosFerry/
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 22, 2012 20:13:35 GMT -8
According to BC Ferries news releases, the asbestos was supposed to have been removed on the Burnaby during her last refit.
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Neil
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Post by Neil on Dec 26, 2012 22:19:37 GMT -8
If you want a good example of why you shouldn't believe everything you read, here's an opinion piece from a Maple Ridge publication, which starts off with a fictional conversation between WAC Bennett and Northland Navigation's Harry Terry, continues with the assertion that 'Blackball' (sic) was owned by the CPR, and doesn't get much better after that. For amusement purposes only... www.mrtimes.com/Ferries+needs+another+Captain+Terry/7745265/story.html
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Post by Ferryman on Dec 26, 2012 22:56:58 GMT -8
If you want a good example of why you shouldn't believe everything you read, here's an opinion piece from a Maple Ridge publication, which starts off with a fictional conversation between WAC Bennett and Northland Navigation's Harry Terry, continues with the assertion that 'Blackball' (sic) was owned by the CPR, and doesn't get much better after that. For amusement purposes only... www.mrtimes.com/Ferries+needs+another+Captain+Terry/7745265/story.htmlToo funny. But hopefully the public doesn't take that article too seriously with all of that misinformation.
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Post by WettCoast on Dec 27, 2012 10:07:04 GMT -8
If you want a good example of why you shouldn't believe everything you read, here's an opinion piece from a Maple Ridge publication, which starts off with a fictional conversation between WAC Bennett and Northland Navigation's Harry Terry, continues with the assertion that 'Blackball' (sic) was owned by the CPR, and doesn't get much better after that. For amusement purposes only... www.mrtimes.com/Ferries+needs+another+Captain+Terry/7745265/story.htmlToo funny. But hopefully the public doesn't take that article too seriously with all of that misinformation. I don't think this piece of so-called journalism is 'funny', more like pathetic. One is hard-pressed to find anything in it that is factual. I gather, nevertheless, that its author is attempting to pass this off as 'factual'. As I said, 'pathetic'.
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mrdot
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Mr. DOT
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Post by mrdot on Dec 27, 2012 11:42:43 GMT -8
:)as for these old news items from the days of wacky's navy, they might be mixed up in folklore, but the new age political adds, which claim lowest taxes in the country, and controlled gov't spending, and other tommyrott, while we can afford non-stop global adds! give me another drink! mrdot.
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Post by Curtis on Jan 23, 2013 17:05:14 GMT -8
An article from the Powell River Peak Today... Not a whole lot that we haven't heard before, but more of a "Time to Get the Ball Rolling" article.
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Post by Low Light Mike on Jan 23, 2013 17:38:52 GMT -8
An article from the Powell River Peak Today... Not a whole lot that we haven't heard before, but more of a "Time to Get the Ball Rolling" article. It's good to know that ferries are not pumpkins. "We are the W.C.P.F." - My WCPF user-name would be " The Great Pumpkin" - Let's take a trip on the Gourd Queen - After a hard landing, the ship gets squashed - Deas Dock to be nicknamed "the pumpkin patch"
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Post by Mike C on Jan 23, 2013 17:54:13 GMT -8
An article from the Powell River Peak Today... Not a whole lot that we haven't heard before, but more of a "Time to Get the Ball Rolling" article. It's good to know that ferries are not pumpkins. "We are the W.C.P.F." - My WCPF user-name would be " The Great Pumpkin" - Let's take a trip on the Gourd Queen - After a hard landing, the ship gets squashed - Deas Dock to be nicknamed "the pumpkin patch" Suddenly the Pumpkin Tart in the buffet becomes relevant. I will not be forgetting my glass slippers while running for the next Queen of Cowichan sailing.
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Post by WettCoast on Jan 23, 2013 19:18:03 GMT -8
There is little hope of seeing new vessels in three years if they don't even know at this point what the design of the new vessels will be. Then there are the funding issues. It is probable that nothing will decided until well after May's election.
Will the replacements for the Burnaby & the Nanaimo be of the same design; will they be built at or about the same time? Many questions. Does anyone have any idea about what sort of vessel will serve Texada?
Many other vessels (e.g. PR class) are equally old & in need of replacement. Has there been any prioritization of needs done?
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Post by Deleted on Jan 23, 2013 20:57:22 GMT -8
There is little hope of seeing new vessels in three years if they don't even know at this point what the design of the new vessels will be. Then there are the funding issues. It is probable that nothing will decided until well after May's election. Will the replacements for the Burnaby & the Nanaimo be of the same design; will they be built at or about the same time? Many questions. Does anyone have any idea about what sort of vessel will serve Texada? Many other vessels (e.g. PR class) are equally old & in need of replacement. Has there been any prioritization of needs done? Yes, the Queen of Burnaby and the Queen of Namaiomo replacement vessels will probably be the same design. Hopefully the Queen of Namaiomo replacement vessel is designed for the Southern Gulf Island with a turntable on the car deck. I think Texada will get a 50 car vessel which it design will be base off the Tackek.I think the PR class needs to be replace too. I see a Queen of Cumberland or the Island Sky design to replace the PR class.
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Post by Mike C on Jan 23, 2013 21:48:38 GMT -8
There is little hope of seeing new vessels in three years if they don't even know at this point what the design of the new vessels will be. Then there are the funding issues. It is probable that nothing will decided until well after May's election. Will the replacements for the Burnaby & the Nanaimo be of the same design; will they be built at or about the same time? Many questions. Does anyone have any idea about what sort of vessel will serve Texada? Many other vessels (e.g. PR class) are equally old & in need of replacement. Has there been any prioritization of needs done? Yes, the Queen of Burnaby and the Queen of Namaiomo replacement vessels will probably be the same design. Hopefully the Queen of Namaiomo replacement vessel is designed for the Southern Gulf Island with a turntable on the car deck. I don't mean to be a negative nancy, but there will be no turntable on the vehicle deck of the future Queen of Nanaimo.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 23, 2013 21:52:54 GMT -8
Yes, the Queen of Burnaby and the Queen of Namaiomo replacement vessels will probably be the same design. Hopefully the Queen of Namaiomo replacement vessel is designed for the Southern Gulf Island with a turntable on the car deck. I don't mean to be a negative nancy, but there will be no turntable on the vehicle deck of the future Queen of Nanaimo. Why? It would mostly like would make it safer for every one to load/ unload the boat and quick to unload the boat since all the cars will be facing the same way.
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Post by Curtis on Jan 23, 2013 22:05:26 GMT -8
There is little hope of seeing new vessels in three years if they don't even know at this point what the design of the new vessels will be. Then there are the funding issues. It is probable that nothing will decided until well after May's election. Will the replacements for the Burnaby & the Nanaimo be of the same design; will they be built at or about the same time? Many questions. Does anyone have any idea about what sort of vessel will serve Texada? Many other vessels (e.g. PR class) are equally old & in need of replacement. Has there been any prioritization of needs done? The way I see it, BC Ferries would be well into the bidding process on these newbuilds if Cost Saving issues and the Public Consultation weren't front and centre the last few months. Add in the BC Election in May and the earliest I see any activity on new vessels occurring is late Summer. Of course, all BC Ferries' plans will likely go down the drain should the NDP form government. Now if BC Ferries did manage to get a contract handed out by the end of this year, I'm sure we all agree the only way these new vessels are in service by 2016 is if "Built by Flensburger" is on the side of them.
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Post by Ferryman on Jan 23, 2013 22:14:59 GMT -8
I don't mean to be a negative nancy, but there will be no turntable on the vehicle deck of the future Queen of Nanaimo. Why? It would mostly like would make it safer for every one to load/ unload the boat and quick to unload the boat since all the cars will be facing the same way. Been there, done that. Apparently the first vessel to serve Route 9, the Queen of the Islands, had a turntable on the car deck. The only reason it was worth putting on there was probably due to the shorter beam with that ship for those big boats of a cars they used to make fifty odd years ago or so. But that didn't last long either from what I understand. Loading the Queen of Nanaiamo in a full load situation takes extra time, but no where near as much time as what a turn table would take having to wait on one car to be spun around at a time. Plus they would still have to drive in reverse to get to the aft end of the ship. Having lots of experience directing your average driver in reverse can be the most challenging part of loading a car deck. Most people get flustered easily and tend to make mistakes easily and therefore makes for an even less safer situation. Chances are, the new vessel will be double ended, RAD driven, and smaller than the Queen of Nanaimo, based on speculation.
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Post by Mike C on Jan 23, 2013 23:15:23 GMT -8
There is little hope of seeing new vessels in three years if they don't even know at this point what the design of the new vessels will be. Then there are the funding issues. It is probable that nothing will decided until well after May's election. Will the replacements for the Burnaby & the Nanaimo be of the same design; will they be built at or about the same time? Many questions. Does anyone have any idea about what sort of vessel will serve Texada? Many other vessels (e.g. PR class) are equally old & in need of replacement. Has there been any prioritization of needs done? The way I see it, BC Ferries would be well into the bidding process on these newbuilds if Cost Saving issues and the Public Consultation weren't front and centre the last few months. Add in the BC Election in May and the earliest I see any activity on new vessels occurring is late Summer. Of course, all BC Ferries' plans will likely go down the drain should the NDP form government. Now if BC Ferries did manage to get a contract handed out by the end of this year, I'm sure we all agree the only way these new vessels are in service by 2016 is if "Built by Flensburger" is on the side of them. I personally don't think that it's going to matter who forms government - something's gotta give. The NDP will not likely send this order to FSG, although, as I have stated before, the products we have received from them have been phenomenal (as compared to a similar, smaller product built here at home during the same time frame). That being said, with a provincial government that has heavily mismanaged transportation infrastructure over the past decade, my hope is that a change in government will allow for this process to go ahead at a more reliable rate. BC Ferries, over the past few years, has executed in what my opinion has been a distinct lack of foresight in vessel designs - meaning they have built their vessels to be route-specific, whilst retiring other ferries that were more flexible for use on other routes during refit season. Between the future cable ferry, the new stern-design for Northern vessels, and the design of the Island Sky, these designs are limiting to what and where the vessel can operate. Hopefully newer designs to vessels will incorporate not just the intended routes, but other routes where the vessel could relieve another in the fairly common event of a refit.
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Post by Northern Exploration on Jan 24, 2013 13:21:30 GMT -8
Why? It would mostly like would make it safer for every one to load/ unload the boat and quick to unload the boat since all the cars will be facing the same way. Been there, done that. Apparently the first vessel to serve Route 9, the Queen of the Islands, had a turntable on the car deck. The only reason it was worth putting on there was probably due to the shorter beam with that ship for those big boats of a cars they used to make fifty odd years ago or so. But that didn't last long either from what I understand. Loading the Queen of Nanaiamo in a full load situation takes extra time, but no where near as much time as what a turn table would take having to wait on one car to be spun around at a time. Plus they would still have to drive in reverse to get to the aft end of the ship. Having lots of experience directing your average driver in reverse can be the most challenging part of loading a car deck. Most people get flustered easily and tend to make mistakes easily and therefore makes for an even less safer situation. Chances are, the new vessel will be double ended, RAD driven, and smaller than the Queen of Nanaimo, based on speculation. I agree that turn tables are slow. I have seen a number of them in operation in various places. One is here in one of the office towers and our convention centre. Trunks pull in and a turn table turns them so they can back up to the loading dock all underground. It can save considerable space. Space squeezed between underground shopping malls, subway lines, etc. is tight and then there doesn't have to be the extra space taken up for a truck to turn around. It also means the truck can drive up and out of the ramp which is much safer than backing out. If you have watched any of the TV shows that show the inside workings of cities (Nerve Center, Toronto Inside Out etc.) what goes on underground unseen is amazing. Some places are so crowded underground that they have started putting cars above ground and using elevators and other innovative ways of moving vehicles, or robotic elevators that take your car away to some unseen slot and then retrieves it when you want it. I know Vancouver is using all sorts of the new parking systems too because downtown is so dense. As efficient as those are for manpower and space they are slow too so doubt they will ever go on a ferry that needs fast turn around.
In a ferry the car has to be driven onto the turntable, secured with a parking brake, and the trouble people have with following instructions screw ups will happen, as I am sure Chris sees everyday. And if a car stalls on the turntable? If there is something dumb people can do in a and with a car, they will.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 24, 2013 15:57:33 GMT -8
I do not agree with BC Ferries replacing the Queen of Namaimo and the Queen of Burnaby with smaller vessel because of future growth in Comox, Powell River and all of Southern gulf Island. I would say to replace the Queen of Namaimo with a single 250 car vessel year round in the on season paired with a 100 car vessel or two 144 vessels for the off season and three 144 car vessels during the on season. For the Comox to Powell River route a single 225 car vessel or two 115 car vessel all year.
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Post by WettCoast on Jan 24, 2013 16:37:12 GMT -8
It is very probable that new vessels will have about the same or less auto capacity then the Nanaimo & Burnaby, the vessels that they replace. In the case of the Burnaby a 125 car vessel is adequate almost all the time, and at peak demand times they could put on a fifth round trip to increase capacity if demand warrants.
There has been some discussion regarding eliminating or radically altering route 9. The scenario that I have heard is that all Salt Spring traffic would be via 'thru-fares' on route 1 connecting with the Skeena Queen at Swartz Bay. Perhaps they could include route 2 and the HSQ in this arrangement too. Service to other Gulf Islands might be provided by a Chetzemoka sized vessel connecting Tsawwassen with Village Bay & Sturdies Bay. Pender & Saturna would be reached only by transferring to a route 5 vessel. Keep in mind here the fact that there is no money tree at BC Ferries. They have to find ways to cut costs without creating large service impacts.
Lastly, about turn-tables. No vessel in the fleet today has one nor do I expect to see them on any new-builds. As for the Queen of the Islands having had one in the beginning - to my knowledge this was not the case. I have never seen any 'hard evidence' of such ever being aboard that vessel. If someone has something concrete showing that it did indeed have such please share it with us.
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Post by Mike C on Jan 24, 2013 17:46:21 GMT -8
I do not agree with BC Ferries replacing the Queen of Namaimo and the Queen of Burnaby with smaller vessel because of future growth in Comox, Powell River and all of Southern gulf Island. I would say to replace the Queen of Namaimo with a single 250 car vessel year round in the on season paired with a 100 car vessel or two 144 vessels for the off season and three 144 car vessels during the on season. For the Comox to Powell River route a single 225 car vessel or two 115 car vessel all year. Those vessel AEQ numbers are pretty high. I would agree with Jim that a 125-car vessel is adequate for servicing Route 17, seeing as the Burnaby sails empty a lot of the time. The Sidney/Tsawwassen were an ideal size for this route, because of the smaller capacity but full galley service. As for Route 9, traffic sees such a high fluctuation on this route that it's difficult to judge what is adequate. In addition, as Jim also mentioned, discussions are ongoing of potential route alteration. Those discussions could potentially be integrated and have an effect on what kind of vessel is built. I am personally on board with 3 125-car vessels that are closed deck, with full galley services, similar to the Tsawwassen/Sidney. The logic here would be that one could be sent to Route 17 full time, and one to Route 9 full time, with the third providing for extra Route 9 service during summer/Christmas, and relief service the rest of the year. However this scenario is unlikely, due to increased costs of building a third vessel, and increased crewing/operations costs.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 24, 2013 18:05:33 GMT -8
I do not agree with BC Ferries replacing the Queen of Namaimo and the Queen of Burnaby with smaller vessel because of future growth in Comox, Powell River and all of Southern gulf Island. I would say to replace the Queen of Namaimo with a single 250 car vessel year round in the on season paired with a 100 car vessel or two 144 vessels for the off season and three 144 car vessels during the on season. For the Comox to Powell River route a single 225 car vessel or two 115 car vessel all year. Those vessel AEQ numbers are pretty high. I would agree with Jim that a 125-car vessel is adequate for servicing Route 17, seeing as the Burnaby sails empty a lot of the time. The Sidney/Tsawwassen were an ideal size for this route, because of the smaller capacity but full galley service. As for Route 9, traffic sees such a high fluctuation on this route that it's difficult to judge what is adequate. In addition, as Jim also mentioned, discussions are ongoing of potential route alteration. Those discussions could potentially be integrated and have an effect on what kind of vessel is built. I am personally on board with 3 125-car vessels that are closed deck, with full galley services, similar to the Tsawwassen/Sidney. The logic here would be that one could be sent to Route 17 full time, and one to Route 9 full time, with the third providing for extra Route 9 service during summer/Christmas, and relief service the rest of the year. However this scenario is unlikely, due to increased costs of building a third vessel, and increased crewing/operations costs. I agree with you but I think 2 of 124-car vessels should service route 9 all year. One 125- car vessel on route 17. I would build four and make the fourth the spare for Earls Cove - Saltery bay,route 5, route 9, route 17.
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Mayne
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I come from a long line of sinners like me
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Post by Mayne on Jan 24, 2013 19:13:39 GMT -8
Those vessel AEQ numbers are pretty high. I would agree with Jim that a 125-car vessel is adequate for servicing Route 17, seeing as the Burnaby sails empty a lot of the time. The Sidney/Tsawwassen were an ideal size for this route, because of the smaller capacity but full galley service. As for Route 9, traffic sees such a high fluctuation on this route that it's difficult to judge what is adequate. In addition, as Jim also mentioned, discussions are ongoing of potential route alteration. Those discussions could potentially be integrated and have an effect on what kind of vessel is built. I am personally on board with 3 125-car vessels that are closed deck, with full galley services, similar to the Tsawwassen/Sidney. The logic here would be that one could be sent to Route 17 full time, and one to Route 9 full time, with the third providing for extra Route 9 service during summer/Christmas, and relief service the rest of the year. However this scenario is unlikely, due to increased costs of building a third vessel, and increased crewing/operations costs. I agree with you but I think 2 of 124-car vessels should service route 9 all year. One 125- car vessel on route 17. I would build four and make the fourth the spare for Earls Cove - Saltery bay,route 5, route 9, route 17. There is no way to justify having two ships on route 9 this time of year, I haven't been on the nanny this winter but most of the time in the winter off months you could shoot a cannon down the car deck. I strongly agree with everything Mileagephoto said on the 3 boat idea but I know building a third vessel would never fly with the situation we are now in.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 24, 2013 19:18:37 GMT -8
Those vessel AEQ numbers are pretty high. I would agree with Jim that a 125-car vessel is adequate for servicing Route 17, seeing as the Burnaby sails empty a lot of the time. The Sidney/Tsawwassen were an ideal size for this route, because of the smaller capacity but full galley service. As for Route 9, traffic sees such a high fluctuation on this route that it's difficult to judge what is adequate. In addition, as Jim also mentioned, discussions are ongoing of potential route alteration. Those discussions could potentially be integrated and have an effect on what kind of vessel is built. I am personally on board with 3 125-car vessels that are closed deck, with full galley services, similar to the Tsawwassen/Sidney. The logic here would be that one could be sent to Route 17 full time, and one to Route 9 full time, with the third providing for extra Route 9 service during summer/Christmas, and relief service the rest of the year. However this scenario is unlikely, due to increased costs of building a third vessel, and increased crewing/operations costs. I agree with you but I think 2 of 124-car vessels should service route 9 all year. One 125- car vessel on route 17. I would build four and make the fourth the spare for Earls Cove - Saltery bay,route 5, route 9, route 17. AC, you are missing the point that BC Ferries has no money to build extra vessels. As it is right now, they have trouble finding enough cash to just replace the ageing fleet. So don't expect them to expand their fleet. Where else in the developed world would you find a ferry still operating that was built in 1958? And By European Standards, the Coquitlam, Cowichan and Alberni would be retiring very soon. A 130 car vessel for route 17 would be sufficient and a 180-car vessel for route 9 would fit. During refit season, when the route 17 vessel goes down to route 9, a 130-car capacity is enough for route 9 in the middle of winter. As for the replacement of other minors, it will be interesting to see what they come up with. It's gonna be a challenge to design a boat to replace the Bowen Queen with all the routes she operates on. My prediction is a modernized, more fuel efficient Queen of Capilano. Lastly, I would agree with cutting route 9 service to Otter Bay in the off peak season. Last February, 809 cars and 1659 passengers left Otter Bay on route 9. I know it's only paper stats, but it's worth consideration. Jim: I believe the Bannerman book mentions the turntable on the QoTI.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 24, 2013 19:20:35 GMT -8
I agree with you but I think 2 of 124-car vessels should service route 9 all year. One 125- car vessel on route 17. I would build four and make the fourth the spare for Earls Cove - Saltery bay,route 5, route 9, route 17. There is no way to justify having two ships on route 9 this time of year, I haven't been on the nanny this winter but most of the time in the winter off months you could shoot a cannon down the car deck. I strongly agree with everything Mileagephoto said on the 3 boat idea but I know building a third vessel would never fly with the situation we are now in. During the on season both boats operate daily in the off season Friday to Sunday. Single boat service in off season is Monday to Thursday.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 24, 2013 19:26:08 GMT -8
I agree with you but I think 2 of 124-car vessels should service route 9 all year. One 125- car vessel on route 17. I would build four and make the fourth the spare for Earls Cove - Saltery bay,route 5, route 9, route 17. AC, you are missing the point that BC Ferries has no money to build extra vessels. As it is right now, they have trouble finding enough cash to just replace the ageing fleet. So don't expect them to expand their fleet. Where else in the developed world would you find a ferry still operating that was built in 1958? And By European Standards, the Coquitlam, Cowichan and Alberni would be retiring very soon. A 130 car vessel for route 17 would be sufficient and a 180-car vessel for route 9 would fit. During refit season, when the route 17 vessel goes down to route 9, a 130-car capacity is enough for route 9 in the middle of winter. As for the replacement of other minors, it will be interesting to see what they come up with. It's gonna be a challenge to design a boat to replace the Bowen Queen with all the routes she operates on. My prediction is a modernized, more fuel efficient Queen of Capilano. Lastly, I would agree with cutting route 9 service to Otter Bay in the off peak season. Last February, 809 cars and 1659 passengers left Otter Bay on route 9. I know it's only paper stats, but it's worth consideration. Jim: I believe the Bannerman book mentions the turntable on the QoTI. But when it comes to the future the vessels would not meet capacity needs. So, BC Ferries should get start in build new bigger vessel now.
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