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Post by Dane on Jan 24, 2013 20:16:05 GMT -8
I don't inherently disagree that bigger vessels can be a good long term planning decision. I often think about the Coastal class and question where we will be in twenty years with them; it is almost as if they will be relegated to #2 boat status most of their careers, notwithstanding the CI on Route 30. However to build bigger assumes more traffic. For sustainable increases in traffic there needs to be industry or population increases to justify growth, and ferries need to be a viable (quasi-affordable) method of travel to serve everyone. Not being an expert in BC demographics I am out of my arcs of fire a bit, however:
- Powell River and the mid-Island do not seem to have a lot of growth that will lead to ferry traffic on Route 17. Additionally the vessel on the route now, as so many have said, is excessive capacity by a long shot.
- Current SGI service is perhaps not as effective as will be needed, insofar as efficiency, in future years. It is very hard to predict what wil happen but regardless of which party is running government I expect to see this being one area of major changes in service deliver. Route 9 going to SSI makes no sense, for example. Is it nice, certainly. But three routes to such a small Island is a relic of different political times.
Thus, I think it is hard to predict where BC Ferries is going to go. Additionally the Liberals have shown no interest recently in funding ferries for vessel replacement and ongoing infrastructure concerns. The NDP have been mute on any meaningful policy propositions. Resulting from my opinion here I find a lot of the discussion simply academic - but very interesting.
Key to the longer term viability, IMO, is a far greater standardization in the fleet. Vessels built to templates can be more efficient even if potentially slightly too large for a route. We tend to group Route 9 and 17 together because they both have B Class vessels, and they both need to be replaced now. However, I am unsure if that is really a fair or logical connection to make. Sure both (presumably) need some sort of protected deck design, but capacities and onboard service requirements could be very different.
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Post by Scott on Jan 24, 2013 21:24:11 GMT -8
I don't inherently disagree that bigger vessels can be a good long term planning decision. I often think about the Coastal class and question where we will be in twenty years with them; it is almost as if they will be relegated to #2 boat status most of their careers, notwithstanding the CI on Route 30. However to build bigger assumes more traffic. For sustainable increases in traffic there needs to be industry or population increases to justify growth, and ferries need to be a viable (quasi-affordable) method of travel to serve everyone. Not being an expert in BC demographics I am out of my arcs of fire a bit, however: - Powell River and the mid-Island do not seem to have a lot of growth that will lead to ferry traffic on Route 17. Additionally the vessel on the route now, as so many have said, is excessive capacity by a long shot. - Current SGI service is perhaps not as effective as will be needed, insofar as efficiency, in future years. It is very hard to predict what wil happen but regardless of which party is running government I expect to see this being one area of major changes in service deliver. Route 9 going to SSI makes no sense, for example. Is it nice, certainly. But three routes to such a small Island is a relic of different political times. Thus, I think it is hard to predict where BC Ferries is going to go. Additionally the Liberals have shown no interest recently in funding ferries for vessel replacement and ongoing infrastructure concerns. The NDP have been mute on any meaningful policy propositions. Resulting from my opinion here I find a lot of the discussion simply academic - but very interesting. Key to the longer term viability, IMO, is a far greater standardization in the fleet. Vessels built to templates can be more efficient even if potentially slightly too large for a route. We tend to group Route 9 and 17 together because they both have B Class vessels, and they both need to be replaced now. However, I am unsure if that is really a fair or logical connection to make. Sure both (presumably) need some sort of protected deck design, but capacities and onboard service requirements could be very different. I agree with most of what Dane has said. If things stay the same, I don't see any great rush of people moving to Powell River. I happen to really like how beautiful and quiet it is up there, but part of the reason is that it's not too easy to get to, and with high ferry fares, not a lot of people are going to want to move there or vacation there. Powell River is a nice little town, but if you spend a bit of time there you can tell it's not thiriving. Comox/Courtenay, on the other hand, is growing I think. But that will put more pressure on Route 2, not Route 17. As far as statistics go, there are "similar" traffic numbers both with vehicles and passengers on Route 7, Route 9 and Route 17. Fiscal 2012 numbers have AEQ numbers at 190,795 - 154,673 - 169,262, respectively. And passenger numbers are 339,021 - 434,582 - 365,822 respectively. So you could make the argument that they could use the same type of ferry, and like Dane said, perhaps it would be cheaper in the long run to have 2 or 3 identical ferries rather than 2 or 3 totally different ones, even if it means a bit of extra capacity at times. And theoretically they could be used on the major routes for extra sailings or for truck traffic. It's interesting to think of how Route 9 could be changed. I've always thought that Saltspring Island - Tsawwassen has been popular. Maybe if they cut it back to certain days of the week in the winter or just once a day? I guess if the point was saving money by shutting down Long Harbour terminal, then a direct connection would not be possible. But if you shut down Long Harbour, then not only do you isolate Saltspring Island from Vancouver, but also all the rest of the Gulf Islands which could be detrimental to the "Southern Gulf Islands" community.
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WettCoast
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Post by WettCoast on Jan 24, 2013 21:25:46 GMT -8
Jim: I believe the Bannerman book mentions the turntable on the QoTI. I have checked Bannerman's book and have found no reference to a turn-table. I have also checked the books Dogwood Fleet (Cadieux & Griffiths) & The Queens of British Columbia (Favelle); again nothing about a turn-table. I also checked ship's plans for the QotI in the materials that I have from my brother's collection. Again, no indication of a turn-table. To be fair though, I have a zerox of drawings reproduced from a magazine article. They are not all that detailed or clear. I also phoned my brother (Mr. DOT, aka David) and asked him. He thinks that yes, there was a turn-table, but when I asked if he knows for certain, he says 'no'. It would sure be nice to have some proof confirming a yes or no. Perhaps a thourough examination of the deck of the Spirit of the Nation could produce evidence of where there once was a turn-table.
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Post by Dane on Jan 24, 2013 21:45:23 GMT -8
I cannot seem to paste into the forum right now. Progress. Regardless, Google "Queen of the Islands turntable" and a post by Jim four years ago will raise the same questions, and the same outcome we have right now
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 25, 2013 17:52:24 GMT -8
BCFS next newbuild program is going to be fairly complex... for example, no one knows how they're gonna replace the 'Wack. A hybrid vessel like they have today seems like a bad idea, because BCFS is likely going to want to have passenger cabins on the NorDisco (which would be wasted space on the southern runs) to help attract more tourism on the route - that is if BCFS doesn't scrap the route. I wouldn't be surprised if the money-losing route 40 is cancelled altogether and they build a southern boat to replace the 'Wack. The NorEx could stop at Bella Bella only during the summer and the Nimpkish could stop at all the Island communities.
Oh, I can't wait until the next newbuild program begins...
As for the turntable, the only mention of it I could find was on John's website's page of the QoTI.
PS: I am liking the increased discussion & debate on this side of the forum as of late. With more 'issues' coming to the surface in light of the upcoming provincial election, there should be more interesting discussions & debates on the BCF side of the forum.
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Post by Curtis on Jan 31, 2013 14:05:34 GMT -8
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Post by ferrytraveller on Feb 1, 2013 17:41:19 GMT -8
Just a quick FYI, bc ferries will be down sizing the ships replacing the Burnaby and nanaimo . Expect a rad driven single bridge double ended lay out! The pr class and hsq will be replaced by an island sky class, that's assume the hsq route isn't canceled. The other minor vessels will all be replaced by a 60 adequate vessel - them being tachek, qq2 and maybe nip
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 2, 2013 12:53:00 GMT -8
Just a quick FYI, bc ferries will be down sizing the ships replacing the Burnaby and nanaimo . Expect a rad driven single bridge double ended lay out! The pr class and hsq will be replaced by an island sky class, that's assume the hsq route isn't canceled. The other minor vessels will all be replaced by a 60 adequate vessel - them being tachek, qq2 and maybe nip That's what Ferryman was saying as well. As for the Tachek and QQ II, I'm surprised that there's even plans for them, as they're not scheduled to be replaced unitl 2029.
I think those plans (that ferrytraveller is mentioning) will come to fruition if BCFS and the Coastal Ferry Act itself isn't scrapped. I can tell that there's going to be a lot of discussion & heated debate on this forum during the May Election Campaign, on election day, and after the election. For now, we 'watch and wait'.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 2, 2013 15:20:30 GMT -8
Just a quick FYI, bc ferries will be down sizing the ships replacing the Burnaby and nanaimo . Expect a rad driven single bridge double ended lay out! The pr class and hsq will be replaced by an island sky class, that's assume the hsq route isn't canceled. The other minor vessels will all be replaced by a 60 adequate vessel - them being tachek, qq2 and maybe nip I do not understand why BC Ferries will replace a 192 car vessel with a smaller sized vessel. I think it will back fire on them in the future.
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Post by DENelson83 on Feb 12, 2013 16:10:58 GMT -8
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targe
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Post by targe on Feb 19, 2013 16:10:23 GMT -8
Feb 2013 - Times Colonist A departing B.C. Ferries vessel had to be turned around Sunday morning, after a woman left her five-month-old infant with a stranger on board so she could retrieve something onshore, and the ship sailed without her. The incident caused delays for all remaining sailings that day.
Ferries’ spokeswoman Deborah Marshall confirmed that a woman and her child boarded Queen of Cowichan for an 8:30 a.m. sailing out of Horseshoe Bay to Nanaimo, after leaving a couple of coolers in the onshore luggage rack.
The coolers weren’t permitted, so the woman was paged on board, Marshall said. “She left her baby with a lady she had met in the waiting room, went off the vessel to go collect her coolers, and in the meantime, the vessel had been cleared for sailing.
“Our crew didn’t realize she had a baby on board, so obviously she was quite upset about the situation once she realized the ship had left,” Marshall said. “So when we had the communication between the ship and shore, the captain decided to bring the vessel back to Horseshoe Bay and pick her up.”
Marshall said it took several minutes for the situation to come to Ferries staff members’ attention. The whole incident caused an hour’s delay.
B.C. Ferries will, on occasion, turn a vessel around. The most common reason is a medical emergency, when it’s closer to bring a ship back into port so a passenger can get medical help, rather than continue the voyage to the other side.
However, Marshall added, given that B.C. Ferries has an average of 500 sailings a day, it’s extremely rare to turn a ship around and return to port.
“This was quite an unusual [Sunday]. I can’t say I’ve ever heard of it.
“Leaving a five-month-old in somebody else’s hands is, how can I put this? It’s not advisable.”
Marshall said B.C. Ferries is looking into how it handled internal communications in the situation, including why staff members didn’t know the woman was leaving a baby on board and if there was enough time for her to return ashore to collect her belongings.
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Post by Dane on Feb 19, 2013 16:31:11 GMT -8
Anything ferry in the budget? I don't get a lot of BC media out here, although CBC Manitoba had a heck of a time pronouncing the finance minister's name!
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Post by Low Light Mike on Feb 19, 2013 17:25:52 GMT -8
Here is a link to the BC Ministry of Transportation & Infrastructure's 2013/14 to 2015/16 service plan. - this is a regular document presented for each ministry, released at same time as the Provincial Budget. link------------------------ Highlights: Ferries are mentioned implicitly on Page 23, where it shows that the budget for the line item "Public Transportation" decreases in 2013/14 and again in 2014/15. - footnote #4 says that "...Public Transportation operating expenses include government contributions towards public transit and coastal ferry services." From the estimates report document, it looks like the coastal ferries funding decrease is $10 million for 2013/14 compared with 2012/13 estimated actual. The report has other transportation items that will be of interest to forum members (re highways, public transit projects, etc), but you will need to filter-out the political spin (just like you'd need to for the reporting from any government).
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Post by Ferryman on Mar 4, 2013 15:28:52 GMT -8
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SolDuc
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SolDuc and SOBC - Photo by Scott
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Post by SolDuc on Mar 4, 2013 16:04:46 GMT -8
Lol! Hilarious! Wondering how she could chain herself without anyone seeing it though.
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Mirrlees
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Post by Mirrlees on Mar 4, 2013 16:35:59 GMT -8
Lol! Hilarious! Wondering how she could chain herself without anyone seeing it though. This is what happens when there is no Pacific Buffet.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 12, 2013 17:03:05 GMT -8
Here's the article related to the wrapping up of the TSB report on the Coastal Inspiration's crash back in December 2011. The TSB mentioned that crews weren't trained with onboard emergency controls... www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/story/2013/03/12/bc-ferries-tsb-duk-point-crash.html...recall that 'not enough training' (says the TSB) was also a factor back when the Queen of the North crashed. Either crews still aren't being properly trained, or they have too many electronics to work with? I don't know what bridge crews have to say about it, but the amount of devices on the Coastal's bridges seems to be overkill for a 1.5hr crossing.
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KE7JFF
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Post by KE7JFF on Mar 17, 2013 1:17:50 GMT -8
I bet you the training on vessels like the Coastals is from BC Ferries and not the manufacturer direct to the primary crews of the ships. I bet you right there the BC Ferries training people are rewriting training material and skipping out lots of the small stuff that could be handy to know.
I know with new cruise ships, before the boat is delivered, the first crews are doing bridge training on full scale bridge simulators from the manufacturer to familiarize them with everything.
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Post by Mike C on Mar 20, 2013 18:23:01 GMT -8
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Post by DENelson83 on Mar 20, 2013 20:13:53 GMT -8
Previously uncharted, not "uncharged".
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Post by Mike C on Mar 25, 2013 14:43:10 GMT -8
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Post by Ferryman on Mar 25, 2013 17:32:46 GMT -8
Big deal. There already is a bit of a tax refund for transit usage which includes ferries. 408 bucks is a drop in the bucket. Ferry travel cost me around $2500 last year, and that was a conservative amount of trips across the pond with my car of maybe once a week or less. This incentive won't be buying any islanders votes.
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Post by Mike C on Mar 25, 2013 17:38:01 GMT -8
Big deal. There already is a bit of a tax refund for transit usage which includes ferries. 408 bucks is a drop in the bucket. Ferry travel cost me around $2500 last year, and that was a conservative amount of trips across the pond with my car of maybe once a week or less. This incentive won't be buying any islanders votes. I was not aware that the transit credit covered ferries. But you're absolutely right, the 408 limit is very low. For some families, that is a round-trip on a major route. I suspect this was a stunt by the BC Conservatives to buy votes in places where they do not see very high support.
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Post by Dane on Mar 25, 2013 19:11:16 GMT -8
I hate tax credits for fees the government already controls. Inefficiency to the max. I get that the intent is to target actual residents and hammer tourists but the additional administration costs must mitigate the added income by quite a bit.
Says the guy who issues parking tickets that cost four times in administration versus the fee paid by the recipient.
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Neil
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Post by Neil on Mar 25, 2013 21:33:34 GMT -8
It's easy for a political party that likely will not elect a single member to throw out bones to the travelling electorate. John Cummins hasn't addressed the contradiction of charging tolls on bridges and ferries, while giving rebates on same. I also don't trust his math where he claims this would only cost the provincial government $45 million.
But it's all moot. The Conservatives are irrelevant... or spoilers for the Liberals, at best. He can promise what he wants.
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