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Post by Low Light Mike on Apr 20, 2008 16:57:59 GMT -8
This is a thread for those on the forum who like to consider that sometimes what the company (BCFS) is saying is not the whole truth or sometimes not even the truth. Sometimes the official word from BCFS (or any company) is "Business-Truth", which is something that's not entirely true but is said anyway for the cause of the company.
So what are some possible instances of business-truth at BCFS?
How about the "it's a whole new travel experience", which is a frequent comment of business-truth from BCFS, used in different circumstances.
How about any circumstance where BC Ferries is publishing a schedule, but knows that there are crew shortage issues that haven't been addressed by the company, and that there is an increasing risk that some scheduled sailings may not occur?
And how about a comment from BCFS communications dept that "our V-class ships have no sizable amounts of asbestos in them".
I know that these items have already been discussed to some degree on other threads, but this thread is re the practice of speaking "Business-Truth" at BCFS re these issues.
I think it's a given that there will always be a fuller-story-of-truth that's not available to the general public, and sometimes not available to the regulators/inspectors. This is the reality for most companies. Even the financial audits allow for instances of "business truth" in the finances, as the audit only states that the auditors think that the financial statements are in accordance with GAAP "in all material respects". The phrase "in all material respects" is supposed to cover the typical user of the information, and whether a misstatement would change that person's decision that's based on the information. So there are always some errors/mis-truths that are considered to be either far too irrelevant or only slightly irrelevant, that aren't supposed to make a difference. But are those issues really irrelevant to all users of the information?
My auditor / finance example can be taken to represent most other kinds of regulatory comfort that we get re issues at BC Ferries.
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So what's the point of this thread? Here is the discussion that I'm interested in seeing re this topic:
- How do you feel about business-truth issues at BCFS?
- What are the areas where you think that the official story is not the whole-story?
- What are the common-sense or alternative-source reasons for your doubts about the truth in some content from BCFS corporate-communications?
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Post by kerryssi on Apr 24, 2008 15:34:13 GMT -8
From my experience and in my opinion, very innovative accounting procedures which can be used to shift costs from one route or one ship to another. Hidden management costs which are costed to the runs rather than where they originate, in management The true size of management..
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Post by Political Incorrectness on Apr 24, 2008 19:27:20 GMT -8
Well if BCFS is trying to make itself "accountable" as an independent operator. They sure know how to make people pay on the minor routes, but on the major routes, its maintained as bad as the Esquimalt without a refit. Last summer, they had to do at least one additional round trip out of Nanaimo every Sunday and have a deadhead back to Departure Bay. Wouldn't it have been easier to schedule another round trip with the 3rd vessel? I do not know why they do not have the Langdale #2 vessel do a round trip or schedule additional round trips on Tuesday and Wednesday between June and July but if they want to save money, they might want to risk scheduling another vessel to run earlier in the year to avoid paying crew overtime and exhausting them.
BC Ferries keeps advertising need for employees, yet I have heard a few people here who like ferries do not get in. If they are really in a shortage, why are we literally being discriminated against? People who have a passion for something will perform well at their job and it will satisfy them since it is a dream. I see this also as a good customer service advantage since some members of the traveling public take interest (although not many) of the boats. If you are to have an employee that does not have some historical background, it makes it seem as if they do not care about their work in a ways. I do not see why BCFS has hired non ferry-geek people. Either they have terminal attendant positions full or it is discrimination against the ferry geek.
Also if they wanted to be financially accountable, I want to see all the numbers in plain clear view instead of hidden because "it's private". When hearing that statement from Kevin Falcon, I pretty much spat since that is a load of C*R*A*P! If the ferry commission can approve fare hikes, then they should have the power to cap fares as well. If they do not, then the Liberal government needs to be replaced. Ferries are not a gated community, they should be apart of the marine highway, not a barrier causing economic hardships.
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Post by Guest on Apr 25, 2008 22:14:23 GMT -8
What do you expect from Gordon Campbell selling off B.C. gov't companies.
Look at what happened when the Highways Dept went to private contractors.
BC Hydro is next.
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Post by kylefossett on Apr 25, 2008 23:46:29 GMT -8
PI, BC Ferries is in need of employees, qualified employees
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Post by Political Incorrectness on Apr 26, 2008 8:17:26 GMT -8
Well I hope you enjoy working overtime Since it seems that there is no creative solution and we are just playing on a fact that is known all throughout BC. Everyone wants skilled workers. What kind of experience? If it is on job experience, then how do people get into the jobs if after they graduate cannot get into the workforce because they have no on job experience.
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Post by kylefossett on Apr 26, 2008 11:47:13 GMT -8
a qualified employee is one that has taken the required courses and has the required certifications
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Post by kerryssi on Apr 26, 2008 18:53:08 GMT -8
These days on BCFS a qualified employee is one who is breathing.
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Post by Guest on Apr 26, 2008 21:22:34 GMT -8
You also have to put up with the stupidity too ;D
Get use to the not me it was him finger pointing from managment.
As for the Ferries not being safe that is untrue they are very safe yes accidents happen.
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Post by kerryssi on Apr 28, 2008 8:15:51 GMT -8
I don't think you will see much posted here due to the danger of a "slap suit" For those who don't know, that is a law suit usually instigated by a large company or government organization against an individual or group of individuals who claim to have information detrimental to that company and who are trying to make that information public. The only purpose is to tie things up in court until the individual or group is bankrupt. This type of thing was banned in the past but Campbell and his Fiberals brought it back. It is why everything you see on Save our Ferries has been checked and rechecked and most of it is in public domain anyway. It has just never been assembled in one spot before and it is information which the media have largely ignored. Both BCFS and the Liberals would love to see SOF shut down.
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Post by Guest 100 on Apr 28, 2008 8:53:14 GMT -8
Go to the 2002 accounts and you see that they have indemnified the need for more skilled / trained crew – Bridge personal. It was highlighted again in 2006 and you also read about it in the press/media. What you may not have read was the “Apprenticeships Program” that David Hahn killed off. So the question is why? Do they have something else in mind?
Why are they using foreign companies to re-write the safety manual, and to bring in Safety training & Bridge Training courses? Could it also be that by killing off the apprenticeship program – as maybe it wasn’t working or producing the correct goods – that this new incentive – will produce the correct type of personal for BC Ferries?
Big risk isn’t?
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Post by Guest 101 on Apr 28, 2008 9:02:13 GMT -8
Concerned about contracts been awarded to “friends” of the Directors of BC Ferries.
If it is correct – then why didn’t we see any mention of a tendering for Cell phones? It appears that Tom Harris Cellular has won that contract.
OK – maybe they won it fair and square – after all this is what they say about themselves…..and of course no one tells lies in business….do they?
Tom Harris Cellular is one of the largest, most experienced TELUS Mobility dealerships in Canada offering digital wireless voice, data, and internet services to both business and individual customers.
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Post by Guest 102 on Apr 28, 2008 9:22:33 GMT -8
I wonder how many senior employees of BC Ferries have a side line – running there own little consultancy – and then selling on this service to BC Ferries – whom they should be working 100% of the time……or is it something else,…. like promoting enterprise within the Province?
There is no problem with a senior person leaving BCF and setting up a business – then offering this to BCF – but doing it while still a fully paid employee is something else.
So how wide spread is this practice?
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Post by Balfour on Apr 28, 2008 10:46:56 GMT -8
Cascade,
I know of a few people that have their own business yet still are employed by a company however they are not related to BCF. I think it is alright to do this as long as it is not a conflict of interest. One of my Drafting teachers has also designed and built or renovated a few homes here on the coast during his off time from VCC. There are also many part time Ski Instructor's out there who own businesses.
So this is a fairly wide spread practice.
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Post by Low Light Mike on Apr 28, 2008 11:11:18 GMT -8
I don't think you will see much posted here due to the danger of a "slap suit" Good point, Kerry. Maybe that's why some matters that are discussed on this forum appear to be "speculation", when there might be more to the matter that can't really be said on an open forum. And that brings up a common shortcoming of discussion-forums such as this one: That because some inside-allegations can't be specifically spelled out on a forum (for fear of legal ramifications), they need to be dumbed-down and appear as speculation.......which makes it difficult for readers to discern the difference between silly-speculation and carefully-worded allegations.....as both might appear vague. But then our mandate here isn't exactly to be uncoverers of dirt, is it? Sometimes it could feel like an X-Files episode......the truth is out there, somewhere.
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Post by Northern Exploration on Apr 28, 2008 14:02:38 GMT -8
This is very common among any shift workers. I know a few firemen who are freelance bartenders who work parties and catered events. I know one who has a weight training side business. Police officers can work the rentacop venues such as funerals, directing traffic at private events, and security at sales etc. Seasonal employees such as football players also work as financial consultants/real estate salespeople etc. An Emergency Nurse I know also has a bed and breakfast outside the city.
There is no problem incorporating yourself under a small business and "renting" out your time to various people. If you only have one client it gets tricky under Revenue Canada rules and they treat you as a contract employee rather than a business. There is positives to this and negatives. It allows some of the income to be taxed under the business rather than personally. Where it gets grey for me is if you have one job for an employer and then contract for a second set of duties unrelated does that count?
I have friends who work 2 days for one charity (can't afford them full time) and two days for another. By labeling themselves as a consultant they work for four days and with the tax savings almost equal out to a regular 5 day job.
Flug or the other bean counter types will have to weigh in on this cause I have reached the end of my knowledge.
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Neil
Voyager
Posts: 7,190
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Post by Neil on Apr 28, 2008 15:53:28 GMT -8
I don't think you will see much posted here due to the danger of a "slap suit" Good point, Kerry. Maybe that's why some matters that are discussed on this forum appear to be "speculation", when there might be more to the matter that can't really be said on an open forum. And that brings up a common shortcoming of discussion-forums such as this one: That because some inside-allegations can't be specifically spelled out on a forum (for fear of legal ramifications), they need to be dumbed-down and appear as speculation.......which makes it difficult for readers to discern the difference between silly-speculation and carefully-worded allegations.....as both might appear vague. I think that, more likely, a lot of the speculation and innuendo that appears here isn't backed up simply because there is nothing behind it, and it's just a matter of someone with an agenda popping off. Case in point, the totally unsubstantiated whispering above about cell phone improprieties, and the likewise unsubstantiated innuendo about BC Ferries execs billing the company for 'outside' consultant fees. The source- a guy with so much credibility that he's found it necessary to delete in the neighborhood of 2,000 posts from this forum, and who now regales us with his little theories under various clever aliases. With regard to 'slap-suits'.... It's difficult to determine whether supposedly damaging information is being withheld because of the threat of legal retaliation, or if, as is common with those who subscribe to conspiracy theories, it's just a cover for the lack of actual evidence to back up charges. Maybe Ms. Montgomery of the Province newspaper can tell us if she had any visits from the sinister 'men in black' after the paper ran their pesky articles on BC Ferries' ongoing safety and operational woes last year. Does BC Ferries have a culture of obfuscation and cover up when it comes to their business dealings, more so than other 'private' companies? How much is going on that is held back from the audited statements? We've heard very little from accountant types or political adversaries who might have something substantial. 'Save our Ferries' has done a good job at putting the whole financing, public/private issue in perspective, but has come up with little that would make David Hahn nervous. Of course, some would say that's because the company's lawyers are poised to pounce if anything contentious gets spilled. Believe that if you will, I guess. BC Ferries is in a strange situation; a 'private' company, owned by the public, and one which regular British Columbians have a definite sense of entitlement to. It's whole structure is looked upon with suspicion by many. Is this notion of clandestine chicanery justified, or is it a result of public frustration at having to deal with a corporate structure we don't understand, and mistrust?
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Post by tempest on Apr 28, 2008 18:40:58 GMT -8
Coastal Skier, I'm curious....why did you reply to Guest 102 as Cascade?
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Post by Low Light Mike on Apr 28, 2008 19:53:23 GMT -8
Coastal Skier, I'm curious....why did you reply to Guest 102 as Cascade? Pardon my jumping-in on this one, but I've occasionally referred to various guest monikers as "Cascade" too. My reason: Some of us prefer the more personal touch or nostalgia. Kind of like referring to the Queen of the North as "Stena Danica", or referring to the Duchess of Windsor as "Wallace" or referring to Yusuf Islam as "Cat Stevens". Or to Vader as Anakin. I could go on: Referring to Muhammad Ali as Cassius Clay. Kareem as Lew. Elton as Reginald. Abraham as Abram. George VI as Bertie. Hitler as Schicklgruber. Spinal Tap as the New-Originals. Diddy as Daddy. Daddy as Combs. Homer as Max Power. Tiger as Eldrick. Fonzie as Arthur. What's that? you want more? John as Nimpkish. Nimpkish as Cortes. NDP as CCF. Marilyn as Norma Jean. The Rock as Dwayne Johnson. Renée Richards as Richard Raskind. Ringo Starr as Richard Starkey. David Bowie as David Jones.
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Post by WettCoast on Apr 28, 2008 20:13:01 GMT -8
Other examples:
Israel Beilin (Irving Berlin)
or HMCS Nanaimo (Flugel Horn) ...
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Neil
Voyager
Posts: 7,190
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Post by Neil on Apr 28, 2008 21:20:45 GMT -8
Given the creative posting record of the character in question, past and present, Woody Allen's Zelig comes to mind. Or from Star Trek -Next Generation, Lt. Reg Barclay's heroic holodeck personalities.
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Post by Balfour on Apr 29, 2008 7:05:32 GMT -8
It brings me to: Old Tar as Cascade.
This guest, who used to be the member "Cascade" now known as "Old Tar" for some reason likes to post as a guest. Fluge and I can both tell it is him because of a very unique posting style he has.
People can change names and Identities on a forum but their style often remains the same.
It's like Q Sandwich has gone to being Strong Skier then to Coastal Skier
mainlander101 to Queen of Burnaby Teen to Michael and now NewFlyer
Captain Jean-Luc Picard became Locutus of Borg.
I could go on with this... but I won't
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Post by Hardy on Apr 29, 2008 11:44:06 GMT -8
Or it could all just be Multiple Personality Disorder too ... but we won't delve into the mental health of guests and members as that would be a "kettle and pot" scenario....
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Post by kerryssi on Apr 29, 2008 13:27:55 GMT -8
Flugel Horn has it right. There was a well publicised story in the Times Colonist a while ago which emphasized the fact that slap suits were once again legal and were being used against individuals to suppress information. I can not at this date remember the details. I do know that information taken off the "private, BCFS employees only" website has been used by BCFS management to threaten employees who have been too forthright. I have a lot of information but I can not post it here because I am aware that BCFS management and their lawyers Cruise this site. This is of course just my opinion and is not a statement of fact......right? I have given SOF a letter written by an ex cabinet minister and ex CEO of BCFC which details how management is hiding their true costs. That letter was given to me with the express desire to see it in print. So far the media, which were given the same letter, have chosen to ignore it.
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Neil
Voyager
Posts: 7,190
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Post by Neil on Apr 29, 2008 15:45:36 GMT -8
Flugel Horn has it right. There was a well publicised story in the Times Colonist a while ago which emphasized the fact that slap suits were once again legal and were being used against individuals to suppress information. I can not at this date remember the details. I do know that information taken off the "private, BCFS employees only" website has been used by BCFS management to threaten employees who have been too forthright. I have a lot of information but I can not post it here because I am aware that BCFS management and their lawyers Cruise this site. This is of course just my opinion and is not a statement of fact......right? I have given SOF a letter written by an ex cabinet minister and ex CEO of BCFC which details how management is hiding their true costs. That letter was given to me with the express desire to see it in print. So far the media, which were given the same letter, have chosen to ignore it. If you have any credible, damning information about improprieties regarding BC Ferries finances, why not forward it to various media outlets who have shown that they're quite happy to publish or broadcast stories that cast the company in an unflattering light? We have a Province reporter in the forum membership who has covered BC Ferries- why not send her a PM? Why not share your information with some of us- privately if you wish- so we can see if there is anything there? Because, frankly, the line that "I can't say this because the lawyers will get me, and the press is keeping things hushed up" can sound like a bit of a dodge. With the public distrust of BC Ferries, I have the feeling certain elements of the media would love a good meaty scandal, if there was any substance to it.
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