Another election: Stephan has done it again

[Mike C]

I'm not necessarily looking for your political view, I'm just interested to hear some of your thoughts on the upcoming election.

[cohocatcher]

I think that the Conservatives will have the plurality (and a strong minority) in this the 2008 Federal Election.

For an interesting site, see

www.esm.ubc.ca

[Mike C]

just something to throw in here, thought it was kind of funny...

www.notaleader.ca

[Nick]

I'm sorry, but I think that is in very poor taste. It seems that elections in Canada have become more about attacking rival party leaders than what each party will do for Canada. I think that ads such as the ones the Conservatives have been running lately in all media forms shouldn't be allowed. Parties should instead outline what they would do better, and how.

I don't know how much affect those ads will have on most intelligent people anyway. I can't speak for anybody else, but I don't need somebody else to tell me what I should think of a politician. I can make up my mind for myself, thank you very much.

Honestly, I am getting rather tired of this. The thing that bugs me the most is that the Conservatives had these ads running almost a month before the election was officially called.

[Curtis]

I say, it's either Conservative Majority or we'll be at it again within two years. I'm surprised we have only seen Conservative ad after Conservative ad after Conservative attack ad, not a Liberal or NDP Ad in Sight.

My Opinion: Dion isn't the answer, neither is Harper. I'd rather see the NDP in office before Harper gets a majority. But either way none of these groups are going to make things much better than the other will. Go NDP! They'll never win but it would beat having Harper for 4 years.

[Neil]

Sept 20, 2008 12:25:30 GMT -8 Mike C said:

I'm not necessarily looking for your political view, I'm just interested to hear some of your thoughts on the upcoming election.

What sort of thoughts would people have on an election that aren't political?

And, by the way, we have a Stephen and a Stephane, but no 'Stephan'. Beware the scourge of Kieranitis in thread headings.

[D'Elete BC in NJ]

Sept 20, 2008 16:17:55 GMT -8 Nick said:

I'm sorry, but I think that is in very poor taste. It seems that elections in Canada have become more about attacking rival party leaders than what each party will do for Canada.

Unfortunately, studies have shown retention rates for negative ads bashing opponents are significantly higher than positive messages for your own cause. That's why you see so many of them now, both in Canadian politics and to an even nastier and larger degree in US politics. Oh, and be glad there's only been a month and a half of them...we been bombarded since January.

[farout]

At the end of the day i really don't like any of them but never the less we must vote for one. All of the party's have done something to tick me off. I was going to vote NDP but after that thing with the "prince of pot" on there books, I'm not sure if thats were I want to place my vote. I still might give it to them but I'll need to think on it. Harper, He get back in.

[Hardy]

Just a quick word about seeing Conservative ads before the rest: parties OTHER than the one in power CANNOT by Elections Canada law run political ads BEFORE the Writ is dropped; however, the party in power, because they control when the election is called, have some kind of an exemption on this and can begin running "Pro-us" ads ahead of time. I cannot find chapter and verse on this (yet) but this has been explained about three times on CBC and CTV near the beginning of this colossal waste of money.

[Deleted]

The Liberal Party was campaigning before the election was called. I got a call from someone from the local party office---I got so mad at them. I told them that the election hadn't been called yet and who I voted for was none of their business.

[Starsteward]

Whenever one watches world news events reported on television other media, one is always constantly reminded of the 'delicateness' of 'democracies' around the globe and the extreme sacrifices many millions of people make just in order to be able to cast a vote or to speak out on issues in their respective countries that effect every facet of their lives.
We take our 'democracy' in Canada far too lightly and I fear without much thought at times, so in fear of sounding preachy, or whatever, take the time to exercise your precious right to vote and protect the way of life we enjoy in Canada, which millions of people around the world would dearly love to have, as we do.
If there isn't a party/candidate you can support, GO to the polling place, spoil your ballot, but remember the price many of those who came before us, and still do to make sure we enjoy what we have.

[Mill Bay]

Sept 23, 2008 9:22:58 GMT -8 Starsteward said:

Whenever one watches world news events reported on television other media, one is always constantly reminded of the 'delicateness' of 'democracies' around the globe and the extreme sacrifices many millions of people make just in order to be able to cast a vote or to speak out on issues in their respective countries that effect every facet of their lives.

I could get lot of mileage out of this, disproving the notion that we actually live in a democracy, but I'll just keep it simple and say you can't take too lightly something that doesn't really exist.

The apparent freedoms of our society are the result of general affluence, based upon private enterprise, but under the surface we have just as much indelicacy in our system as many of the other less well-founded countries in the world.

[Low Light Mike]

Sept 23, 2008 12:21:31 GMT -8 Mill Bay said:

Sept 23, 2008 9:22:58 GMT -8 Starsteward said:

Whenever one watches world news events reported on television other media, one is always constantly reminded of the 'delicateness' of 'democracies' around the globe and the extreme sacrifices many millions of people make just in order to be able to cast a vote or to speak out on issues in their respective countries that effect every facet of their lives.

I could get lot of mileage out of this, disproving the notion that we actually live in a democracy, but I'll just keep it simple and say you can't take too lightly something that doesn't really exist.

The apparent freedoms of our society are the result of general affluence, based upon private enterprise, but under the surface we have just as much indelicacy in our system as many of the other less well-founded countries in the world.

On the other hand, our freedoms in Canada are great compared with countries like China or Myanmar/Burma. In China or Burma, I don't think I'd be able to voice my displeasure with various politicians, without fear of arrest (or worse). Here I can say exactly what I think about any political idea or party/person, and not fear for my life or of harm to my family.

To me, that's a huge difference, and why I feel blessed to live in Canada and why I'm thankful for that.

[Mill Bay]

Sept 23, 2008 14:17:53 GMT -8 Low Light Mike said:

Sept 23, 2008 12:21:31 GMT -8 Mill Bay said:

I could get lot of mileage out of this, disproving the notion that we actually live in a democracy, but I'll just keep it simple and say you can't take too lightly something that doesn't really exist.

The apparent freedoms of our society are the result of general affluence, based upon private enterprise, but under the surface we have just as much indelicacy in our system as many of the other less well-founded countries in the world.

On the other hand, our freedoms in Canada are great compared with countries like China or Myanmar/Burma. In China or Burma, I don't think I'd be able to voice my displeasure with various politicians, without fear of arrest (or worse). Here I can say exactly what I think about any political idea or party/person, and not fear for my life or of harm to my family.

To me, that's a huge difference, and why I feel blessed to live in Canada and why I'm thankful for that.

Truly we do have so much more freedom here in Canada, and I do appreciate it very deeply, but I believe we may have a tenuous hold on it. How bold some of those fighters for democracy must be in China or Burma because they still speak out knowing that their lives are at stake. And, at least they also have the added consolation of knowing that what they say will be listened too and that it must matter if tyrannical leaders are willing to take drastic action to silence their voices.

Here we rarely see people speaking out or marching en masse simply to preserve those simple freedoms, any more. Even when someone does voice a concern that a fundamental right is being violated who really listens? No one is going to hunt that person down with a death squad but, on the other hand, the even worse result is that no one will listen at all.

At least in war-torn and despot ruled countries, the people know when they are being lied to and oppressed because no one makes an effort to hide it. Here, the dishonesty is so cleverly covered up that we do not even realize when we might be being deceived and that may be the most chilling violation of our rights imaginable, when we don't even realize what we might be losing.

In this election, try to look beyond the rhetoric... ignore the campaign signs, change the channel when a commercial advertisement comes on. Close your eyes and, at the end of the day, vote for whom you think you can trust. Not who will save the environment, not who can balance the budget, not who can save the economy, because if you vote for any of those things, you are already being deceived.

Celebrate our rights and our heritage of preserving freedom by finding that one person to lead our country who is actually worthy of our trust to do so. I can't say who that is, but I hope we manage to find that person, and I pray that they succeed because, if we choose the wrong one, those people in Burma may someday be watching us fight for our freedom in the streets.

[Northern Exploration]

Not about this election per se but I actually believe that inclusion in politics and the process of what is worked on has greatly increased in recent years. Two examples while local to me are good illustrations of what I mean by this.

Firstly, Toronto has run a public consultation called Transit City, where stakeholders of all sorts gather for a one or two day conference open to anyone. This is advertised in advance and held on a regular basis. The large number of people who show up are divided into manageable groups who have imput on a whole range of transit issues. So businesses who are impacted by transit, people who use transit and even just transit nuts, all chew on the issues and come up with comments and recommendations. It has already generated many smaller innovations and put some ideas on the board for the future.

The second one is called Metrolinx. This public body was established to bring together ten different local transit systems and one regional system for the six million people that live in this region. Every part of the process is published and people are invited to participate in person and online components. Therefore anyone with a computer or access to one can be involved even if you can't take time off work.

The advent of the net has made government procedings and reports more accessible and involvement even easier. We can watch question period, email our representatives, and make comment of a wide range of things much easier and quicker now. If you have the time and access online you can find huge number of government reports and comment to committee members and departments.

There are many opportunities in our country to get involved. Work for a local, provincial or federal candidate. Volunteer for one of the whole range of committees that cities and other governments strike. Join a political party and get involved. Be faithful and work up so you can attend the policy convention and have a part in developing platforms.

Is the system perfect. No way. Can it be improved more? Absolutely.

Unfortunately because it is so easy here for us most don't put out the effort. Those who complain the most often are not the ones who put in much effort. It is much easier to be an armchair critic and complain then to actually be involved. A good number of the complainers don't even vote. Look at the abismal voter turnout numbers.

I have been not too popular this last week. Everyone who complains to me, I begin asking questions about their political involvement. I actually have been pleased with some of the answers people have given. Over half though change the subject very quickly as soon as they see where I am going. I want to see what positive things someone is doing to impact the situation rather than what they say.

[Neil]

Part of me agrees with Karl Marx; the democracy we have in the west is a sham, designed to make gullible citizens outside the corporatist halls of power think they have some hand in their own fate. You look at the system the Americans have devised for perpetually dividing power between two business oriented parties, the whole primary system and the corporate controlled media making sure that no one even as mildly dangerous as Ralph Nader, or, heaven forbid, Ron Paul, ever gets so much as a sniff at power. Barack Obama scares no one on Wall Street. How could he, when his most 'audacious' weapon is hope?

But then I think... this is the system we have, it's not going away any time soon, and we may as well participate, or at least, be aware, and make the best choices we can. Sitting on the sidelines saying 'no one's acceptable', accomplishes nothing, and probably just gives more power to people who don't deserve it.

And then there's the motivation of voting against Stephen Harper. I respect anyone's right to feel differently, but I've never loathed a politician like I loathe Harper. Not Nixon, not Reagan, not Bush, not Mulroney. Gordon Campbell is Winnie-the-Pooh-loveable next to Harper, in my book. The man makes my skin crawl. From his cuts to culture to his faux Arctic sovereignty policy, child care to economic issues, and worst of all, his powder blue sweaters and Karla Homolka eyes, I want him gone.

But he won't be. Conservative majority, most likely. The people are always right.

[Starsteward]

To some degree or another, you all make valid points in your postings. What is most important is the fact that we are engaging in 'dialogue' which if nothing else should stir the thinking process so that we can assess our beliefs in relatation to those around us.
There may well be many times where we may " agree to disagree" but that in itself is a productive outcome of discussing important isssues.

[Northern Exploration]

Well the arts budget is down from $3.36 Billion to somewhere around $3.29 or so BILLION!! Now that includes all of Heritage and Sports funding. So the additional funding for the 2010 for athletes, and English language classes and orientation for immigrants, besides funding for traditional arts is all in there. Still while the categories have been restricted to who receives funding, there actually is more money going for the arts that is still being funded. CBC had an interesting piece last night that said with a lot of qualification what Harper is saying is a bit of a stretch but not a total lie. However, the furor and blatantly incorrect statements that the other candidates are saying is downright wrong. I have a number of friends who receive funding from the arts grants. I can say with certainty that there are times I consider getting into the arts because of the things these people get paid to do. My tax dollars! Believe me the examples of stupid things you see funded in the news is only the tip of the iceberg. As much as I help the pure arts raise money through my professional life (in the multi-millions of dollars) and believe artists need to be funded, I am appalled at what goes on under the guise of "art". The opposition is seeking to shore up their traditional support base by igniting a fire in a contentious area with people who are unlikely to support the conservatives anyways. Pretty smart but when you gotta lie to get votes - lets call a spade a spade. I by the way had an email exchange with someone who is an insider with one of the parties and the response to this was, "all is fair in love and war (pause) and politics (giggle)."

The National last night had an interesting comparison with the furor south of the border with the election there and somewhat apathy here in Canada in comparision. Whatever takes place south of the border it will be an historic outcome. Either the first African American President who has run on very little substance of a plan, or the first Female Vice President and President who was a prisoner of war (I put the latter in the order on purpose ).

Personally I believe Minority Governments have been among the most effective though often too short lived forms of government. The two year governing and two year election cycle south of the border isn't what I would wish for Canada.

I am one of the non-pigeon holed people who does not fall within any political party. None of them fully represent my views. I like some of the NDP social policies but with the exception of Saskatchewan and the Bob Rae government in Ontario (tried to govern like a centrist party once in power), they do a very crappy job of running a government. Debt to fund social programs will be catostrophic in this economic climate. So throw the Liberal party platform with some deletions, the Conservative with corresponding deletions, and a couple of spoonfuls of some NDP social programs in a blender and you have something close to what I would call "my platform". So since I am tired of the election nonsense, (not the actual voting - the party stuff) that may influence how I end up voting as much as anything. And sometimes the devil you know is better than the one you don't. I may not like the party in power. However, the stuff I hear about two of the leaders from the insiders who know what they are talking about, makes it very unlikely I would ever vote for those two individuals. If that is what they are like now, they will be like that in power and probably even worse. If you think the Harper government doesn't listen, one of the other leaders is as bad or worse. And because he is not listening now his days as a leader is numbered.

So long and short I understand some of the apathy in the Canadian populace. But believe me after the election if people keep chewing on the same things they have before, and didn't vote or get involved they gotta know how I am going to respond and how much I will listen to. Nada!

[Neil]

Pretty long post on the election from a guy who's "tired of the election nonsense".

No matter how many insiders one claims to know, or how independent one claims to be, I think most of us form our certainties about 'blatantly incorrect statements' and lies through the filter of our biases and belief systems. Arguing about funding for the arts is as much a minefield as the difference in peoples' perception as to what is art, as witnessed by your statement about "pure art", and your being appalled at what you judge to not be art. Again, personal perception, and the antithesis of what someone else might feel. Based on what- insight, or bias?

Older I get, less I believe in absolute truth, in just about anything. Except for my absolute truths, of course.