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Post by Hardy on Oct 19, 2008 11:12:10 GMT -8
Our fellow member 'gordon' seems to frequently post in topics with queries that lead them OFF TOPIC. I have therefore taken it upon myself to create a THREAD JUST FOR ANSWERING gordon's QUESTIONS.
Thanks for your indulgence, and I hope that gordon can find ALL his answers here!
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Post by Hardy on Oct 19, 2008 11:17:46 GMT -8
Originally from Fare Hikes thread: How does the Golden Ears Bridge toll rate you mentioned compare with the rate for the recently removed Coquihalla tolls? Is there a possibility of a road option to Langdale & the Sunshine Coast that is closer to the Lower Mainland Tolling a new Pattulo Bridge is a bone of contention between Vcitoria & Translink. Translink has talked about tolling it but the government says not so fast. The final decision n replacing Pattulo Bridge lies with Translink. It is very hard to compare the GEB tolls to the Coq tolls. The Coq was a much larger project and saved over an hour of time. It was a rural connector between two remote areas, with nothing really in the middle. The GEB is about 1 km long and is in the middle of an urban area. $8 compared to $20. In one day, I have only gone both ways on the Coq a few times for work. In my line of work, there are days when I criss-cross the Greater Vancouver area several times, Port Mann, Alex Fraser, Pattulo, Geo Massey etc. Some routes for me need me to cross the Port Mann 4 times in one day. A road connection between the mainland (Squamish area) and the Sunshine Coast has been discussed - I cannot find the study, and it is not for lack of searching. Can someone with a better memory post me the link I need? A replaced/upgraded Pattulo would DEFINITELY be tolled. The government has said so. Translink, while responsible for the bridges, doesn't have the budget to make it a FREE crossing, and therefore would HAVE to implement tolls. |
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Post by Low Light Mike on Oct 19, 2008 12:25:11 GMT -8
Great idea to create a place for our busy Q-man to match his Q's to our A's.
[housekeeping note: not everyone needs their own thread, but this member has so many Q's that they deserve a home of their own.]
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Post by Hardy on Oct 19, 2008 14:43:43 GMT -8
Great idea to create a place for our busy Q-man to match his Q's to our A's. [housekeeping note: not everyone needs their own thread, but this member has so many Q's that they deserve a home of their own.] Thanks for the mod-stamp of approval. While I myself am guilty of getting lured in to answer his off-topic queries and thereby drag a thread further off topic, I don't have the TIME nor INCLINATION to find the proper thread to reply to his queries in. I just figured a 'catch-all' would work best. gordon: don't get me wrong, a lot of your questions are VALID and insightful, but MISPLACED. Here's your lost and found sandbox to throw them all into!  |
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Post by Hardy on Oct 19, 2008 14:57:13 GMT -8
Hardy What do you think would a reasonable toll for the size of truck that you were talking bout in your earlier post? If you purchase the transponder, as you will have to in order to receive a reduced toll, and if they institute a "frequent user" program for courier/delivery companies as I have written them to consider, then I would think that the following toll structure for the GEB would be appropriate: 1-ton courier style van/16' box GVW up to 5500kg: $3-4 per pass 5-ton-ish single-axle delivery truck/20-26' box up to 14500 kg: $4-5.50 Otherwise, if you get the tolling too high, then vehicles will avoid the bridge. I know it is a user pay system, but in order to pay it off, don't you want people to use it? It is a typically Canadian thing -- price the single price so high because you think you can't move enough inventory, rather than the US model of pricing it low and making your profits on VOLUME of the product. High value x low occurance lower value x high occurance Which makes more sense? The other way that they could work it would be moderate rates on the individual tolled crossings and then apply a "bulk-discount" factor monthly to the corporate accounts. One delivery company I worked for put out about 10 trucks per day doing residential goods deliveries and the scheduling necessitated them to cross multiple bridges per day. They are already looking at zoning OUT certain areas each day so as not to have to cross so many bridges. But this has a trickle-down effect of DECREASING customer satisfaction and customer service. Tolling is a trade off. I don't see an INITIAL problem with "high" tolls on the GEB, but once the next adjacent bridge (Port Mann) goes toll, then you will see issues arise. I think it would be better managed from their perspective to set the pricing right the first time out of the gate. |
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Post by Northern Exploration on Oct 19, 2008 14:58:03 GMT -8
Here's your lost and found sandbox to throw them all into! I always wanted a sand box to play in when I was a kid but we had a lot of cats in our neighbourhood in Burnaby and cats love sandboxes. So in searching for some nuggets of wisdom in the sandbox watch for other nuggets.  |
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Post by Hardy on Oct 19, 2008 15:15:43 GMT -8
Here's your lost and found sandbox to throw them all into! I always wanted a sand box to play in when I was a kid but we had a lot of cats in our neighbourhood in Burnaby and cats love sandboxes. So in searching for some nuggets of wisdom in the sandbox watch for other nuggets. Very valid comparison. I see that gordon has not found his sandbox yet. I bumped my own off-topic reply in the original thread to try to lure him over here. Maybe if I answer some of his other questions here .... |
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Post by Hardy on Oct 19, 2008 15:19:46 GMT -8
Can large commercial vessels (freighters& cruise ships transit AP? I don't know that they have much need to transit that particular stretch of water. There is no need for freighters to be going that way, as there are suitable alternatives which are much less restrictive. Not knowing the rules and regulations of the area, I am not sure if larger vessels are permitted there --- I cannot really see why they would NOT be allowed to transit Active Pass. On the other hand, I cannot see why they would WANT to transit Active Pass. Your one example of a cruise ship may be an exception, if they want to go sightseeing. More than likely though, the captain would have very limited experience in these here waters and may not feel comfortable, so unless they had a local master aboard or something, I am unsure if the cruise line would risk their multi-million dollar ship to go play in Active Pass. |
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Post by gordon on Oct 19, 2008 15:20:03 GMT -8
I would suspect if they want to draw traffic from the Port Mann, a lower toll would likely draw more traffic.
One Issue, this being a P3 The consortium building & operating the bridge needs to get its share of the revenue, so that could lead to a slightly higher toll.
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Post by Hardy on Oct 19, 2008 16:42:18 GMT -8
I would suspect if they want to draw traffic from the Port Mann, a lower toll would likely draw more traffic. One Issue, this being a P3 The consortium building & operating the bridge needs to get its share of the revenue, so that could lead to a slightly higher toll. P3's still need to operate within a set of parameters and be responsible to the stakeholders. Yes, the private sector part needs to make a profit on it, but the province is also in the firing line for the public access to the asset. And the level of the toll needs to be set realistically. Once the Port Mann is twinned, and plans for what they are going to do with the Pattulo are in place, then there can be a revisting of this topic. But I don't think that they can come out of the gate with ludicrously high tolls -- as I say, people will be more likely to avoid a high toll crossing than going over it. You get the toll point just right, and the time savings is an incentive. Lower toll x more vehicles equal greater revenue. This will come to be especially true when you have 3 toll crossings next to each other, as I have stated, and the only free options are Abbotsford-Mission and Alex Fraser. |
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Nick
Voyager 
Chief Engineer - Queen of Richmond
Posts: 2,078 
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Post by Nick on Oct 19, 2008 20:09:56 GMT -8
For the Active Pass question:
After the Queen of Victoria incident of 1970, freighters were "banned" from using Active Pass. It was found that there was far too much ferry, fishing, and pleasure craft traffic to allow more large vessels to pass through. Also, with the ever-increasing size of today's freighters, I'm not sure many would be able to physically do the pass. Note that freighter traffic was restricted before the 'Victoria incident, but I don't think it wasn't banned outright.
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D'Elete BC in NJ
Voyager
Dispensing gallons of useless information daily...
Posts: 1,671
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Post by D'Elete BC in NJ on Oct 20, 2008 3:49:59 GMT -8
Hardy What do you think would a reasonable toll for the size of truck that you were talking bout in your earlier post? If you purchase the transponder, as you will have to in order to receive a reduced toll, and if they institute a "frequent user" program for courier/delivery companies as I have written them to consider, then I would think that the following toll structure for the GEB would be appropriate: 1-ton courier style van/16' box GVW up to 5500kg: $3-4 per pass 5-ton-ish single-axle delivery truck/20-26' box up to 14500 kg: $4-5.50 Hardy, To give you a comparison of local rates for the NYC and Philly area, look here and here. These rates are charged in one direction only, so halve them for a bi-directional rate charge.
Having successfully tested Hardy's resolve against off-topicness and found his will to be strong and his heart in the right place, I will now try to support his efforts at reform ;D |
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