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Post by lmtengs on Sept 28, 2011 16:00:37 GMT -8
I may be giving advice, Neil, but I'm just as suspicious as you. I cited many of your above points as well, and LCR seems to have glided over most of them.
LCR, could you post some more photos of the ship (or boat, as it looks) that you plan on using? On board photos would be appreciated too. Like I said, from how it looks, you're planning on ferrying people across the Georgia Strait on a modified speedboat. That surely will not fly with anyone who wants to ferry to Vancouver.
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Post by NMcKay on Oct 6, 2011 9:34:26 GMT -8
you'll never make it with just the commuter, there just isn't enough business to do that.
get the tourist, and you have money rolling in.
oh, and lets see how good that boat runs when it is a log or sucks up some chop.
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Neil
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Post by Neil on Oct 6, 2011 10:24:51 GMT -8
you'll never make it with just the commuter, there just isn't enough business to do that. get the tourist, and you have money rolling in. oh, and lets see how good that boat runs when it is a log or sucks up some chop. Nanaimo has an under utilized convention centre, an unbuilt hotel, a largely vacant cruise ship terminal, and the worst unemployment in the entire province. There are no tourists clamoring for a passenger service to the city, and those who are travelling to areas around Nanaimo are taking their cars. There will never be 'money rolling in' for any passenger only service, and no one will ever be successful over the long run without a subsidy.
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KE7JFF
Chief Steward
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Post by KE7JFF on Oct 7, 2011 4:28:12 GMT -8
Nanaimo right now is just a mid-island hub for people coming from the Lower Mainland and it does great at that if you have a car. I think that's because there's no great ground connections for foot passengers; if they could solve that problem, I could see a foot ferry being more viable.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Oct 7, 2011 6:17:24 GMT -8
My reasoning for thinking there could be an opportunity here is that there are 15+ daily return air flights. Full fare is pushing 100$, one way. Yes the "flight" is 15-20 min, but once you add check in time etc... the door to door difference will not be extreme. Also they don't fly after dark.
If log strikes are anything but a very rare occurrence for small boaters out there I would like to know that. At 65km with a seat belt and buoyancy tanks there should be no serious injuries, although the boat would be out of service.
“sucking chop” I assume refers to waves. Again, up to about 4 ft of chop will be fine. “swells” are not an issue (at least not for the boat). The plan is that riders that must go all the time could take another mode of transportation on those days.
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Post by Low Light Mike on Oct 7, 2011 7:25:12 GMT -8
If log strikes are anything but a very rare occurrence for small boaters out there I would like to know that. At 65km with a seat belt and buoyancy tanks there should be no serious injuries, although the boat would be out of service. ...We should probably warn you about the killer sea-serpents that prowl around our waters. You'd probably like to know about that, too. I like your "should be no serious injuries" safety slogan, noted above. Very reassuring.
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Post by EGfleet on Oct 7, 2011 8:03:07 GMT -8
If log strikes are anything but a very rare occurrence for small boaters out there I would like to know that. At 65km with a seat belt and buoyancy tanks there should be no serious injuries, although the boat would be out of service. ...We should probably warn you about the killer sea-serpents that prowl around our waters. You'd probably like to know about that, too. I like your "should be no serious injuries" safety slogan, noted above. Very reassuring. That would be the elusive Cadborosaurus, no? en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cadborosaurus_willsi
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Post by WettCoast on Oct 7, 2011 8:13:57 GMT -8
You will no doubt recall the incident when the Queen of Richmond while sailing on route 2A hit and killed a Cadborosaurus in 1968.
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Post by lmtengs on Oct 7, 2011 17:53:35 GMT -8
“sucking chop” I assume refers to waves. Again, up to about 4 ft of chop will be fine. “swells” are not an issue (at least not for the boat). The plan is that riders that must go all the time could take another mode of transportation on those days. I advise you to ride BC Ferries' ships for a few trips across the straight during wintertime. You'll notice that on average, seas reach or surpass 4 feet more than 3 days a week. That would be a lot of cancelled sailings, and a lot of unhappy and seasick passengers.
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Neil
Voyager
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Post by Neil on Oct 7, 2011 18:15:24 GMT -8
“sucking chop” I assume refers to waves. Again, up to about 4 ft of chop will be fine. “swells” are not an issue (at least not for the boat). The plan is that riders that must go all the time could take another mode of transportation on those days. I advise you to ride BC Ferries' ships for a few trips across the straight during wintertime. You'll notice that on average, seas reach or surpass 4 feet more than 3 days a week. That would be a lot of cancelled sailings, and a lot of unhappy and seasick passengers. But "no serious injuries". That's all been figured out. With regard to points raised by Mr Horn, EGfleet and Wett Coast, it should be pointed out that Ihab Shaker stated that one of the main reasons for his company's demise was the high cost of serpent collision insurance. One of lcr's little jet boat pontoons would be no match for a rock-hard caddy skull.
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Post by dofd on Oct 7, 2011 21:22:47 GMT -8
I would think the cost to run 20 people across (if you could get 20 each way) would cost a lot. You would have your boat payments, crew, fuel, maintenance, docking fees?, insurance, commercial license fees and customer amenities. = little, if not no profit
And yes: "no serious injuries" doesn't help.
Sorry I forgot Maintenance x 2
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Post by lmtengs on Oct 7, 2011 21:31:16 GMT -8
Just for kicks, I'd like to ask: Where exactly do you define the border between 'non-serious injury' and 'serious injury'? Is a non-serious injury considered as any that the victim needs not go to the Emergency room to have looked at? Maybe the border is whether one needs corrective surgery for their injuries? Or do you consider permanent loss of mobility to part of one's body a 'serious' injury?
Of course there are those who believe a serious injury is any booboo that involves a red bump, but for some reason I don't think that's the case here...
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Kam
Voyager
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Post by Kam on Oct 7, 2011 21:47:40 GMT -8
Just for kicks, I'd like to ask: Where exactly do you define the border between 'non-serious injury' and 'serious injury'? Is a non-serious injury considered as any that the victim needs not go to the Emergency room to have looked at? Maybe the border is whether one needs corrective surgery for their injuries? Or do you consider permanent loss of mobility to part of one's body a 'serious' injury? Of course there are those who believe a serious injury is any booboo that involves a red bump, but for some reason I don't think that's the case here... In the US, Title 49 Code of Federal Regulations (CFR) section 830.2 defines a fatal injury as any injury that results in death within 30 days of an accident. It defines serious injury as that which requires hospitalization for more than 48 hours, commencing within 7 days from the date the injury was received; results in a fracture of any bone (except simple fractures of fingers, toes, or nose); causes severe hemorrhages, nerve, muscle, or tendon damage; involves any internal organ; or involves second- or third- degree burns, or any burns affecting more than 5 percent of the body surface.
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Post by dofd on Oct 7, 2011 21:50:16 GMT -8
Just for kicks, I'd like to ask: Where exactly do you define the border between 'non-serious injury' and 'serious injury'? My guess would be any injury that does not require medical services.
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mrdot
Voyager
Mr. DOT
Posts: 1,252
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Post by mrdot on Oct 7, 2011 21:54:53 GMT -8
:)late breaking Global news has it that Crusty will re-establish passenger service to Nanaimo as this is a critical hub of island political correctness, and she will establish a new queen of richmond as her first crack at back to the good old days! and a delerious mr.dot was heard lustily singing in the good ol dogwood days!
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Post by lmtengs on Oct 7, 2011 22:17:42 GMT -8
or involves second- or third- degree burns, or any burns affecting more than 5 percent of the body surface. Then I suffered serious injuries on my trip to Cuba last April! Falling asleep on a beach chair for 5 hours when you have fair hair and very light skin isn't exactly the best idea when you're not wearing sunscreen. Let's just say I was rather skinless on the entirety of my back for about six weeks after I got burnt. I guess that's my only serious injury so far... unless the time when I had a canoe go through my ankle counts... or the time when I sliced off a chunk of my thumb and put it back on with electrical tape. Huh.
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Post by Low Light Mike on Jul 24, 2013 16:30:14 GMT -8
A Nanaimo Daily News story about the idea of a Nanaimo-Vancouver passenger ferry. This one might actually turn into something tangible... from here: Link here:
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Post by Scott on Oct 9, 2013 19:15:49 GMT -8
Not sure if there's a more in-depth news article somewhere, but this is on News1130 right now: www.news1130.com/2013/10/09/passenger-ferry-between-vancouver-and-nanaimo-may-sail-again/I don't know yet what they're going to do different than all the other times they've tried. Maybe they're hoping the new hotel will help? Mr. Gautier says things have "dramatically changed" since last time, but I'd like to know what he means by that. Or maybe you guys know? - John H
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Post by Low Light Mike on Oct 9, 2013 20:08:48 GMT -8
I don't know yet what they're going to do different than all the other times they've tried. Maybe they're hoping the new hotel will help? Mr. Gautier says things have "dramatically changed" since last time, but I'd like to know what he means by that. Or maybe you guys know? I've been following this story for the past few months. What's changed since last time? - Nanaimo now has a new Economic Development Corp (controlled by the City) which gives a better effort on attracting a ferry service operator and/or investors to the city. - The General-Manager from the last fast-ferry in Nanaimo is now a Nanaimo city councillor (interesting bit of trivia for you) - Maybe the Nanaimo Port Authority is going to be more on-side with the service than they were last time (based on what I remember reading last time from the General Manager's son) - Nanaimo now has an almost-new cruise ship dock which could be used as a ferry landing and terminal area. The City and Regional District are also serious about locating a transit exchange in that area.
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Neil
Voyager
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Post by Neil on Oct 9, 2013 21:24:09 GMT -8
As always with the notion of unsubsidized private ferry proposals, there is a stench of unreality around this story.
I cannot believe that people are still flogging the idea that there might be a significant number of customers who would be living in Nanaimo, and working in Vancouver. Yes, there are passengers to be poached from the seaplanes, but other than that, there is no proven or even realistic market.
"Hey honey! We can move to Nanaimo! I can drive downtown, get on the ferry, take a bus up Granville, and be at the office two hours after leaving home! Wow!"
I'm wondering if any of the principals in this venture were the same people who advocated the lamebrained idea of a cruise ship terminal for Nanaimo. To paraphrase Clint Eastwood, a town's gotta know it's own limitations.
I'm not gratuitously knocking Nanaimo. I like the city. I wouldn't mind living there.
Promoters of the ferry venture talk of different economies, and different relationships with port authorities. Maybe there's an analogy here with the Phoenix Coyotes. They have new owners, new funding, and they've blackmailed the city of Glendale, AZ, into a favourable arena lease. Unfortunately, one thing hasn't changed: the historical fact that there simply aren't a lot of hockey fans in Arizona.
Bill McKay states that Harbourlynx was making an operating profit when it shut down. That may be... but day to day operating profits do not determine the long term viability of an operation. The fact is that when the 'lynx suffered a catastrophic engine failure, it did not have the funds or the prospects to keep going. Experience has shown that a Vancouver to Nanaimo passenger ferry cannot be viable. Some people, apparently, need to keep learning the same lesson over and over.
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Post by BreannaF on Oct 11, 2013 20:16:00 GMT -8
The whole problem with the passenger ferry issue is that there would not be a lot of regular customers, so the business would be dependent upon tourism (either locals or people from elsewhere). There is a certain romantic idea that people would love to take a ferry from Vancouver to Nanaimo, and at first glance, of course someone would do that. Once. Or twice. But probably not often enough to support the service.
Examples from throughout Cascadia:
1) Yes, the last guy to try this was a pretty poor manager and not properly funded. It sounds like more folks are behind a possible effort this time. But it is certainly too early to tell. Besides the service would have to overcome the memories of the "Coastal Runner" or whatever that was called to be successful.
2) Port Townsend to Seattle: I think everyone around here wanted this. Trips to Seattle. Seattle tourists spending a day and their money in PT. But the reality was it consistently needed a few hundred passengers a day to make it work, not a few dozen. It didn't work for long.
3) Kingston to Seattle: This one had the backing of a lot of local groups, and a really good effort was made to get people riding it. And, on the day that I rode it, myself and my 6 fellow passengers had a fine trip. But even though there are hundreds taking the WSF ferry from Kingston to Edmonds, then the train or bus from Edmonds to Seattle, the direct passenger ferry was still not a big enough time savings to warrant making the change to an untested mode of transportation that, also, dropped people off in the Waterfront instead of up the hill on 5th Avenue near their offices. This is the one where I would look at what didn't they do that Nanaimo could do better.
4) Vashon to Seattle: This one works and fills the boat every day. It works because it is a Government-subsidized entity that doesn't need to make a profit. It works because it is proven, and when it was starting out, Vashon to Fauntleroy to a bus to Seattle was still readily available if it didn't. Also, it is a significant time and non-transfer alternative to the WSF ferry + bus. It is also a pool of regular commuting customers and not the least bit tourist-dependent. That seems to be the key here.
I know that a lot of people would love to see a service from Nanaimo to Vancouver. But it would have a long way to go to actually be successful.
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Post by Low Light Mike on Oct 21, 2013 16:34:43 GMT -8
The Nanaimo foot ferry group made a presentation to Nanaimo city council, last evening.
The City's meeting agenda lists the group as "Island Ferry Services Ltd"
Some excerpts from their report to Nanaimo city council:
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Neil
Voyager
Posts: 7,177
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Post by Neil on Oct 26, 2013 13:23:30 GMT -8
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Post by DENelson83 on Oct 27, 2013 11:08:53 GMT -8
This guy named David Marshall, the director of this venture... He's not related to Deborah Marshall, is he?
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Post by Low Light Mike on Nov 5, 2013 14:31:40 GMT -8
Nanaimo Daily News story, with more detail on the proposal, including the ship names and specs. ============================= And here's a link to a website with PHOTOS of the ships. - the headlines are a bit optimistic. This is not a done deal yet. CLICK HERE
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