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Post by Gunny on Nov 20, 2007 16:50:07 GMT -8
JROCK,
I would encourage you to overlook the "monster" comment, and deal with the issue, which many feel is a misrepresentation on an application and an ommission of critical information about a criminal conviction and possible extradition.
IF you feel that a misrepresentation is acceptable argue that. If you there is something that outweighs this ommission we encourage you to present it. However, I feel that this omission is not justified, regardless of current contributions to society. (As a Commerce Student I tend to side with management).
This said, I DO believe that the union has to provide legal support to this terminated employee. If they do not they maybe found by the LRB to be not fulfilling thier duty to thier membership. Furthermore, the implications of this case extend beyond a alleged (and convicted) crime, it extends to any knowing omission of fact from a application.
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Post by Scott on Nov 20, 2007 18:55:49 GMT -8
Sorry about using the word ass here I assumed most of you would be able to handle such vulgarity. Which would suggest that vulgar language is an "adult" characteristic? In my opinion, it's actually a juvenile characteristic that does nothing but aggravate and insult the reader and the person the profanity is directed at. It doesn't lead to constructive and intelligent debate, but rather stifles it. I realize that we're dealing with maritime topics and sailors have a reputation for having some colorful language, but I try to keep this forum along the lines and standards of a mainstream radio-talk show. I usually overlook the odd expletive that pops up, but I stand behind my moderators in stating that your (JROCK) language (it was more than just the word "ass") was inappropriate. We have members on this forum (who have participated in this thread) who have very lively and heated debates that are very interesting, but they don't resort to swearing or disgusting imagery. You're welcome to take part in this forum as long as you follow the few rules we have: ferriesbc.proboards20.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=rrr&thread=1152081919&page=1
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Post by JROCK on Nov 21, 2007 5:00:07 GMT -8
I'm sorry that my reply was inflamitory but being in that I know the man it is somewhat personal, hense the emotional replies. I've said my bit whether it is agreed with is not of importance. My view on war (no matter which) is simply, history is written by the victors... if that is amoral to some then so be it. Repugnant as it may be the world is not black and white Neil. Kyle I assure you if I was here to troll for an argument I wouldn't choose a thread posted by a member of this site that reads a news article and deems it fact, all I wanted to say was give this man a chance to have a fair trial before we label him a monster. I found this board because I'm interested in some of the ships I work on and maintain and for no other reason. If a moderator wants to remove my posts please go for it
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Post by kylefossett on Nov 21, 2007 16:03:28 GMT -8
JROCK, there have been people that have come on this board before and stirred up problems. if you had of registered as a member and then brought up your thoughts i would not of had an issue. We do live in Canada and the last time I looked you were allowed to have your own thoughts and express them as you deem fit.
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Post by Scott on Nov 21, 2007 17:04:42 GMT -8
I'm actually glad you made the counter-point that this man has perhaps been misrepresented in all media reports in regards to his life in Europe. I think sometimes we put too much stock in newspaper articles; I think we're all aware how often they get things wrong when it comes to ferry news. On the other hand some very nice people can have dark secrets in the present or the past. I don't think we should pass judgement on the man other than it sounds like he wasn't completely truthful in his application to BC Ferries.
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Neil
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Post by Neil on Nov 21, 2007 17:29:29 GMT -8
John, this man was not misrepresented in the media. It is an undisputed fact that he was convicted of war crimes in the torture and murder of seven people in Croatia, sentenced to fifteen years in prison, and has been sought since by the Croatian government. You may not accept the fairness of the Croatian justice system, but surely no one would expect BC Ferries to keep him employed when it became clear that he withheld this information at his hiring. And that is really all that matters here; what I think of him, what his buddies think of him, or how anyone else 'judges' him, is not the issue.
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Post by Scott on Nov 21, 2007 19:13:57 GMT -8
I actually have no knowledge of the Croatian justice system. And I know the original story of this thread was about the man's firing from BC Ferries which most (including myself) would agree seems to be justified. But if someone wants their name cleared or takes exception to a friend being labled a monster, I don't have a problem with them trying to present the other side of the story.
I stand corrected - the media has completely represented that this man has been tried and convicted in Croatia of war crimes, but it has done nothing to clarify the context - whether it was a fair trial, etc. Today I read in the paper a story of a woman in Saudi Arabia convicted of some sort of crime and sentenced to 200 lashes and 6 months in jail. What did she do? She was with an unrelated man who along with 4? other men raped her (who were also convicted and punished). If she moved to BC, applied to BC Ferries, didn't say anything about her criminal conviction, was discovered and fired, I'm sure she and others would want to clarify the circumstances around her assumed guilt.
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Neil
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Post by Neil on Nov 21, 2007 20:45:24 GMT -8
John, with respect, I don't think that's the best analogy. If Mr Budimcic had been guilty of a minor crime, by our or Croatian standards, and had neglected to mention it upon hiring, this story would probably have had a different ending. We are talking about war crimes; complicity in murder and torture. We empathise with women in patriarchal societies who are in effect tortured by the authorities upon conviction- we feel rather differently about people convicted of complicity in murder. BC Ferries cannot be expected to start making value judgements about the quality of judicial outcomes in the Balkans, and they did what probably any employer would have done when faced with an employee who had lied by ommission about a very major criminal record.
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Post by JROCK on Nov 21, 2007 23:00:00 GMT -8
Niel you have a propensity to regurgitate partial information that you've read. I appears you've based your judgment on very little factual information. This is typical of someone that lives in fantasy, as said before the world is not black and white Joe's "trial" was held with no legal representation in a court room where he was not even present or informed for that matter! Amnesty international among many others have discounted the the system as unjust. To argue these facts is simply out of nothing more then blind childish ignorance. I know that the issue is his dismissal but your continued slandering of this man is dangerous and irresponsible. Get the facts before spreading further rumors and conjecture
The issue of "lying" on his application is another complete and utter insult. Niel have you seen the BC Ferries application for employment? Honestly you are arguing that Joe lied on his application or during his interview. This is a interesting.. The application the last time I filed it out (and was hired) asked if I had a criminal record with a box for yes and box for no, Joe has no criminal record here in Canada the RCMP has confirmed this he is a bondable Canadian citizen.. check for yourself. The interview process for the Engineering department takes place with a Chief Engineer and an ER person, the ask suitability questions and nothing about ones past. Whats more they are not in a position to these days, they are literally begging for people and sometimes filling positions with warm bodies to meet the TC regs.... to suggest Joe lied is further slander on a man that is a victim of his birthplace and sadly a civil war. Unless you are prepared to bring something factual to the table please lets wait and see what our countries courts decide about this mans future.
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Post by Scott on Nov 21, 2007 23:08:33 GMT -8
Lets be clear, I don't think BC Ferries is in the wrong. And I don't think the crime, whether major or minor, should have any bearing whatsoever on the case. If he didn't properly declare his criminal history on his application, it's grounds for dismissal.
No, the Saudi Arabia example isn't the greatest analogy, but it does illustrate that there are corrupt and unreasonable justice systems in other parts of the world that have nothing in common with ours. And even justice systems that are similar to ours like America, even they hold and convict prisoners of war (or in some people's eyes "war criminals") on flimsy or non-existant evidence. So I think it's fair for someone who feels their friend (whose name is publicly associated with war crimes) is being mis-judged (apart from the firing issue) to bring up the fact that these accusations could be wrong. However, like I hinted at before, he could be the nicest guy in the world and still be a war criminal... a lot of people "can't believe it" when they find out their friend or co-worker is a pedophile or serial killer.
JROCK may have suggested that he was wrongfully fired (sort of reading between the lines)... and I wouldn't agree with that. But I think it's okay if he wants to defend his character... I hope he's right.
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Post by JROCK on Nov 22, 2007 0:36:26 GMT -8
Well if the application asked for his history and he said nothing then it's his own doing, if they asked him if he'd even been charged or convicted of a crime in his interview and he'd lied then for sure. I'm not naive I know they let him go as any major company under extreme scrutiny must in a situation like this but the ferries have a history of poor middle management.. to be honest that part of this story I could care less about.
I believe that Joe is someone that has lived through a pretty nasty bit of civil war in his country, All I know of him is his history here and what I too have read and been told. His story will be mainstream soon enough and the entire point of my posting is that he should be granted the right to clear his name before anyone labels the man a monster, a criminal, a liar or anything other then a fellow human being, that is all.
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Post by Low Light Mike on Nov 22, 2007 12:33:09 GMT -8
Here's a 2-year-old news article from the Gulf Islands Driftwood, on the subject. I'm posting it so that we have some more things to consider re this thread. It's from Nov.2005: www.gulfislands.net/news.asp?ID=1499===================== War past haunts ‘Joe Somebody’ Gulf Islands Driftwood, Wednesday, November 02, 2005 By mitchell sherrin Islanders rallied around Salt Spring resident Josip Budimcic after he was branded a “war criminal” in a front-page story printed in the Times Colonist on Tuesday. Slumped in a chair at the Driftwood office on Tuesday, there was little Budimcic could say in his own defence about accusations he’d tortured and executed prisoners during the 1991-95 war in former Yugoslavia. Budimcic has lived on Salt Spring with his wife and children since 2003 and he runs a mobile mechanic and general handyman business called “Joe Somebody.” But before Budimcic could share his story with islanders about how in 1996 he was sentenced to 15 years in absentia for alleged war crimes in Croatia, he’d need to consult with his lawyer, he said. And so his story will need to wait. In the meantime, island friends have stepped forward on his behalf. Dr. Georges Benloulou knew Budimcic when they both lived in Saskatchewan and said they’ve been friends for nine and half years. “I think he has a lot of support on this island, including mine,” Dr. Benloulou said. “Certainly, as facts unfold and they become obvious, then you’ll realize that the way things are done in other judicial systems — especially under circumstances of anarchy and war — may actually be done in a way that isn’t quite Canadian.” Canadian authorities have had all the facts and they have chosen not to act, Benloulou said. “He’s never hidden from anyone. He’s always advised authorities where he’s been and I think that’s a very admirable thing.” And Salt Spring RCMP Corp. Dave Voller confirmed that he’s familiar with Budimcic’s case. “We’ve been aware of his presence here for some time so I was not surprised when I saw the story in the paper,” he said. Voller wouldn’t comment on the extent of the Salt Spring RCMP’s ongoing investigation, but he did confirm the detachment has worked with the Canadian Border Services Agency on the case. Long-time islander Dan Lee also called the Driftwood in support of Budimcic. “I trust him implicitly. He’d do anything for anybody that’s the way I know him. I support him. I’d go to the wall for him, whatever it would take.” Shortly after they first met, Lee talked with Budimcic about his experiences during the war that shook former Yugoslavia. “He’s pretty candid and pretty open,” Lee said. “He would describe how everything was fine and then, the next thing you know there’s a civil war going on and you’re on the wrong side of the line.” Living as a minority Serb in Croatia, Budimcic fled with his wife and two children to Canada as a refugee in 1995. And Lee doesn’t put too much weight on a 1996 criminal conviction from the Osijek County Court in Croatia after Budimcic was accused of war crimes. “The fact that he was tried in absentia, where a person doesn’t get a chance to defend themselves, that must have something to say. All of a sudden you are labelled a “war criminal” because you weren’t there to defend yourself.” According to Human Rights Watch, “Croatian courts have found ethnic Serbs guilty of war crimes even for such acts as theft of bedclothes, plates, or an alarm clock from a house.” Human Rights Watch criticized Croatian war crimes trials for “bias, lack of professionalism in the courts and inadequate police cooperation.” And the European Economic Union decided that membership negotiations with Croatia would be contingent upon cooperation with the International Criminal Tribunal. “Until Croatia demonstrates it can try war crimes cases fairly, it won’t be possible to say that the rule of law has fully taken hold in the country,” said Rachel Denber, acting Europe and Central Asia director at Human Rights Watch. Amnesty International also questions war crimes proceedings in Croatia. “Since the hostilities in 1991, the Ministry of Justice of the Croatian government has maintained lists of suspected Serb war criminals, numbering as many as 3,000 at one point. These ‘official’ lists have frequently been criticized for inaccuracies and uncertainties.” The Croatian government has been asking to extradite Budimcic from Canada to Croatia, but the two governments do not have an extradition agreement. Budimcic’s landlord Merv Walde also counts himself among the refugee’s supporters. “We’d quite like to have his side of the story come out.” They’ve been friends since Budimcic moved to the island and he’s confident that the islander will have his name cleared. “The facts of his case will come out and they will show that he’s not guilty of what he’s been charged with. It will all come out.” Walde was completely aware of Budimcic’s past before his name was splashed in headlines Tuesday. “If we were friends and I found out afterwards that this was the situation, that might be a different thing, but we were fully apprised of the situation when he came.” “We knew what he’d been up against all alone,” Walde said. “The fortunate thing is that he’s living in a community that cares and that will support him . . . That’s what community is all about, looking after our own members.” =================
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Post by Low Light Mike on Nov 22, 2007 12:40:14 GMT -8
...and here's a more-recent article, from 2 months ago (The end of the article, as did the previous article, alludes to Joe's desire to tell his side of the story, to clear things up. This article says that the hearing starts Dec.3rd, and that the proceedings will be open to the media. This should be interesting reading, in early December....) =============================== www.gulfislands.net/news.asp?ID=1833Budimic refugee status hearing set Gulf Islands Driftwood, Wednesday, September 19, 2007 By sean mcintyre It was back to business for an island handyman convicted in absentia for war crimes by a Croatian court after the weekend’s headlines announced the date for Josip Budimcic’s December refugee-status hearing. “I’m sorry I took so long, I’ve been working all day,” said Budimcic during an interview at the Driftwood office on Monday evening. Budimcic, commonly known on the island as Joe Somebody, said he has received nothing but support from fellow islanders after a picture and front-page story on his case appeared in the National Post on Friday. Budimcic’s five-day hearing set to begin in Vancouver on December 3 will be open to the public following an application submitted by a National Post reporter. That’s of little concern to Budimcic, who said he and his lawyer welcome the opportunity to clear his name once and for all. “I want to leave the doors open,” Budimcic said. “I might as well let the public know I’ve got nothing to hide. I live here and this is what I want.” Budimcic was convicted of war crimes by a Croatian court after he arrived in Canada as a refugee in 1995. He has since obtained permanent resident status. The events allegedly occurred during Croatia’s war for independence between 1991 and 1995. The Immigration and Refugee Board hearing was scheduled following a request from Minister of Public Safety Stockwell Day in late 2006, according to Melissa Anderson, a spokesperson for the board. “This is only the first step in a long process to deport Mr. Budimcic,” she said. Anderson said the government’s case to revoke Budimcic’s refugee status is based on his “direct and deliberate misrepresentation of the facts” during the application process. “Any of the particular information will come up at the hearing itself,” she said. Budimcic did not provide any details on his involvement in the war and could not reveal on what grounds he and his lawyer will dispute charges levied against him. “I’m sorry. You’ll have to wait until the hearing,” he said. ===============
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Post by Low Light Mike on Nov 22, 2007 12:54:36 GMT -8
Re my above post, from the Sept.2007 Gulf Islands Driftwood newspaper:
"Joe's" hearing re his immigration-status is scheduled for week of Dec.3rd.
It will be open to public media. So I suspect and hope that the reportings from this procedure will go a long way to addressing some of the issues raised in this here thread.
For those concerned with the accuracy/bias of the media who might be there, hopefully there will be a variety of media so that a balance can be found. I suspect & hope that the Gulf Islands Driftwood will report on this hearing. Hopefully CBC will be there too.
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Post by JROCK on Nov 22, 2007 18:45:11 GMT -8
Thanks for posting those articles..
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Post by ferryrider42 on Nov 22, 2007 23:33:32 GMT -8
After thinking about this whole mess for a few days I have come to the same general conclusion as others. If Joe lied on his application, it is his own doing.
However, as Jrock pointed out, there is some vagueness regarding the application’s questions surrounding past convictions. There is a very real possibility that Joe and Ferries interpret the relevant questions differently. Unfortunately, this is a matter of semantics which, lawyers will have to fight out.
I also agree with Neil. BC Ferrie’s business is in moving boats around, they are not war crimes lawyers. Consequently, they have no business second guessing the decisions made by any other countries courts. For that reason, it doesn’t seem right to paint BC Ferries in a negative light. They simply did what they thought was best for their business.
But, most importantly the accusations made against Joe must be questioned by the public. We all know that some very real and nasty things happened during the Croatian War. Still, people are wrongly accused all the time, particularly when scape-goats are needed. So, I’m a little cynical of the charges laid out by the Croatian government. The fact that the Canadian government has known of Joe’s story, plus that they have thus far had no problem with his presence further reinforces my gut felling.
I look forward to seeing what comes out of the Dec 3 hearing. Hopefully this hearing will resolve all questions surrounding Joe’s past. I’m also betting that these recent government accusations of lies made during the application process are nothing more then bureaucrats getting shaky feet because of recent media attention. So, the whole process should be looked at as a positive opportunity to get some straight facts. Assuming of course we have decent media coverage from a variety of independent sources.
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Neil
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Post by Neil on Nov 23, 2007 11:42:02 GMT -8
The issue of "lying" on his application is another complete and utter insult. Niel have you seen the BC Ferries application for employment? Honestly you are arguing that Joe lied on his application or during his interview. This is a interesting.. The application the last time I filed it out (and was hired) asked if I had a criminal record with a box for yes and box for no, Joe has no criminal record here in Canada the RCMP has confirmed this he is a bondable Canadian citizen.. check for yourself. The interview process for the Engineering department takes place with a Chief Engineer and an ER person, the ask suitability questions and nothing about ones past. Oh, I get it now. This is kind of like the U.S. military's policy toward gays: "don't ask, don't tell". If your prospective employer doesn't specifically ask you, "Were you convicted of war crimes in any foreign jurisdiction, and are you under threat of deportation and/or extradition?".... you don't need to tell them. Well, jrock, apparently BC Ferries, the BC Human Rights Tribunal, and the Canadian government, all have some reservations about your interpretation of that principle. Since jrock is clearly a fellow who brooks no 'nonsense, ignorance, fantasy, childishness, heads in wrong places', and especially, no insults, and most of all, wants to stick to facts, lets deal just with the facts. And, as an expression of good will and a desire to stick to the facts, I'll change some things. I'll withdraw my 'monster' remark from my first post, and substitute 'convicted war criminal' (in parentheses, since Mr Budimcic disputes it). I also change a reference to lying, to "refusing to mention", and "conviction of torturing and executing..." to "conviction of complicity in torturing and murdering". That removes judgmentalism from the posts, and reflects the facts, as we know them at this time. So, lets sum up. Josip Budimcic was convicted, in absentia, in 1996 of war crimes involving the torture and execution of seven Croatian war prisoners. Budimcic denies the charges, though has not spoken publicly of his version of events. He applied for employment with BC Ferries, and was hired. He was subsequently fired when BC Ferries learned of his past, and accused him of misrepresenting himself by not disclosing his record. He appealed to the BC Human Rights tribunal. They sided with BC Ferries. The Canadian government is now seeking Budimcic's deportation, claiming " direct and deliberate misrepresentation of the facts" during his refugee/ immigration application process. Those are the basics of the story so far. The difference between failing to disclose information that you know an employer or immigration would consider vitally important, and outright lying, can be a very fine one, in some cases virtually non-existant. The record of Croatian justice against Milosevic's Serbian forces is indeed uneven, and there have been serious abuses. There also have been war criminals brought to justice, and convictions in absentia are sometimes necessary; criminals haven't always stayed around the face the music. jrock can have all the apoplectic fits of anger against me that he wants: while Mr Budimcic claims to have been open and honest, BC Ferries, and at least two branches of government say differently, and it's them that Mr Budimcic has his problems with. Along with the Croatians, if they choose to pursue this matter- which they seem likely to. I would be delighted if Mr Budimcic were able to clear his name. I would be the first person on this forum to congratulate him, and wish him a long and happy life in Canada. It would be a relief to know that immigration had not allowed a genocidal fugitive to slip away to a peaceful existence here, without answering for crimes abroad. We shall see. Final note, and this is aside from Mr Budimcic's case: I can't count the number of times over the years where I have read of war criminals, be they Nazis, Rwandans, or whomever, who've been unmasked after living many years in peace after committing their atrocities in some foreign land. And invariably, the reaction from neighbours, co-workers, and friends is always the same: "He was such a nice man"... or "He'd do anything for you"... or "He made wooden reindeers at Christmas"... People can be falsely accused. And criminals can satiate their desires, and slip away to lead a false life in peace. I hope for his sake, and our sake, that Mr Budimcic is in the former category. (Ferryrider: I appreciate your comments, but please note that since we are trying to deport Mr Budimcic, the Canadian government does indeed seem to have a problem with him.)
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Post by Gunny on Nov 24, 2007 21:17:33 GMT -8
It is interesting Neil, because that is NOT what the Human Rights Tribunal said. The failure to reinstate Joe was strictly procedural.
This case is VERY interesting... it is too bad it hasn't shown up in my 392 (Managing the Employment Relationship) class.
Gunther
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Neil
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Post by Neil on Nov 24, 2007 23:36:55 GMT -8
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D'Elete BC in NJ
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Post by D'Elete BC in NJ on Nov 26, 2007 9:18:17 GMT -8
Neil,
I looked at the recording of the proceedings, and I would agree completely with Gunny's assessment. While the tribunal did discuss the fact that Budimcic was terminated by BCFS for failure to disclose his conviction, the complaint by Budimcic was dismissed on a technicality - he failed to submit his case soon enough. The tribunal proceeding states clearly that it was felt Budimcic had sufficient knowledge of the cause of dismissal - his claim was he didn't know why BCFS had dismissed him until after the deadline to file - to file a complaint prior to the designated deadline, and since he failed to do so, he would not be able to present his case.
Again, although the recordings do point out the conviction as the primary dismissal cause, there is no consideration of whether or not BCFS acted fairly in the termination. Budimcic's case was dismissed due to his failure to meet the deadline to file his case, and his inability to demonstrate a reasonable cause for the delay.
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Neil
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Post by Neil on Nov 26, 2007 22:52:48 GMT -8
You're right, it was not an examination of the BC Ferries case against Mr. Budimcic- although the end result of the failed motion was to end things in BC Ferries favour.
I think it's very significant that despite having counsel, and thus apparently an understanding of how and when things needed to be done, the motion was not filed in time. If we're being really, really, charitable, we might conclude that was just an oversight.
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Neil
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Post by Neil on Dec 3, 2007 17:48:38 GMT -8
from Canadian Press, Dec. 3:
Canada tries to strip refugee status from alleged war criminal living in B.C.
VANCOUVER - More than a decade after a Saltspring Island, B.C., man gained Canadian refugee status, the Canadian government wants to strip him of the status and return him to Croatia to face a 15-year prison term for war crimes.
Hearing officer Jessie Davidson told an immigration hearing Monday that Josip Budimcic withheld information when he applied as a refugee to come to Canada. Davidson said while Budimcic claimed he was in the military, he didn't elaborate on that military experience.
Budimcic is wanted in Croatia after he was convicted in absentia of torturing and executing prisoners while a member of the Serbian paramilitary police in 1991.
Budimcic's lawyer Dennis McCrea told the hearing his client is innocent. "What we're going to be doing is prove that he didn't do anything wrong," McCrea told reporters. "The courts in Croatia just can't be trusted to provide valid verdicts, especially at a time when they were still involved in a civil war." McCrea said justice officials in Croatia were pursuing anyone who didn't fight on their side.
Budimcic reportedly came to Canada in 1995 as a refugee, a year before a Croatian court sentenced him to the 15-year prison sentence. Canadian law allows the country to withdraw refugee protection if it finds a decision to grant the status was obtained by an applicant who withheld facts on a refugee application. Refugee status also can't be granted if that person committed a war crime.
The first witness at the hearing was visa officer Stephane Stebelski, who processed Budimcic's application in Belgrade. Stebelski said Monday he didn't remember Budimcic, noting he processed thousands of similar applications at that time of the reign of Slobodan Milosevic. The former Yugoslav president was later charged for crimes against humanity by a United Nations criminal tribunal but died in the middle of the trial. Stebelski told the hearing the fact that Budimcic mentioned military service on his application wasn't unusual. Budimcic claimed he was mobilized with the military three times with police, but Stebelski only wrote down two dates.
Budimcic is well-known in the small Saltspring Island community as Joe Somebody, a handyman and mechanic.
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Neil
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Post by Neil on Dec 4, 2007 22:05:16 GMT -8
Immigration hearing told Saltspring man met criteria for refugee status
Canadian Press, December 4
VANCOUVER - A Canadian immigration official said Tuesday he wouldn't process an application for refugee status from someone accused of war crimes but admitted the impartiality of war crimes courts in the former Yugoslavia in the early 1990s was questionable. Brian Casey, the program manager for Canada's immigration and visa office in Belgrade until 1995, said he was satisfied with the information provided on the 1994 refugee application of a Saltspring Island man convicted of war crimes in Croatia. Casey was testifying on the second day of a hearing to determine whether Josip Budimcic should be stripped of his refugee status.
The Canadian government claims Budimcic lied on his application about his role with the Serbian military police in 1991. He was granted permanent residence status in Canada in 1995 but that status can be revoked if he is found to have lied on his application.
In 1996 Budimcic was convicted in absentia for war crimes and handed a 15-year sentence by a Croatian court.
"If you are aware of war crimes charges against somebody you would stop the application process until the court proceedings were completed," Casey said under questioning by hearing officer Jessie Davidson. Ross Pattee, the Immigration and Refugee Board member hearing the case, asked Casey why his department did not look into outstanding charges against any refugee claimants. "In those days, war crimes tribunals were just being set up," said Casey, adding that there was no easy way to access information. "We weren't monitoring local press, and we didn't have the Internet," he said. With local media becoming polarized along ethnic lines, he said impartiality was doubtful. Casey said based on the information available at the time, Budimcic met the criteria for refugee status.
Budimcic, 43, is also accused of withholding information about his military record. In his application, he claimed his military service consisted of only a short stint from October 1982 to November 1983. In later interviews, he told immigration staff about three subsequent periods when he was mobilized for the army as a police officer in 1993 and 1994. Only two were recorded on his application.
Budimcic's lawyer Dennis McCrea suggested to Casey in cross-examination that staff who processed the application had failed to record information his client provided. "When an applicant tells you about being mobilized several times, shouldn't the officer follow up on the dates, times and circumstances of each one and write them down?" McCrea asked.
Visa officer Stephan Stebelsky testified Monday about working on Budimcic's application. Only two mobilizations are mentioned, and only in summary notes, he said. At the time of his application, Budimcic also failed to present documentation of his military service.
On Tuesday, a small, tattered green book - Budimcic's military booklet - was presented at the hearing. It contained his personal information, dates of entry into the service and his service record. When Budimcic finally took the stand late in the afternoon, he was asked why he kept the booklet. After a long pause, he began to cry. "I kept it because it was my only identification," he said. The military booklet has entries showing three periods of service prior to the mobilizations in 1993.
Between September and November 1991, Budimcic was deployed twice to a military base in Sombor. From November 1991 to March 1992 Budimcic was sent to Mostar in Bosnia. At that time, there was fighting across the former Yugoslavia related to the civil war.
Casey said the dates and locations of the deployment put Budimcic near the scene of heavy fighting, specifically the battle for the town of Vukovar. Casey, a 35-year veteran of the immigration service, told the hearing this information was critical for a refugee claim. "We would try to determine where the person had been during times of conflict," he said. "If they had been in zones of conflict at certain times we would explore that in any interviews." Casey said war crimes were a serious consideration in all claims. "We were in a situation where we were watching the break-up of Yugoslavia and seeing many atrocities," he said. "We wanted to be absolutely sure we were processing victims of the conflict and not giving shelter to perpetrators of atrocities." While service in the military alone is not grounds for denying refugee status, he confirmed that applications could be refused on the basis of misrepresentation.
Budimcic was expected to testify for at least two more days. The married father of two lives on Saltspring Island, B.C. where he is more commonly known as Joe Somebody, after his handyman service of the same name. On Tuesday, friends and supporters of Budimcic outnumbered reporters in the court.
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Neil
Voyager
Posts: 7,189
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Post by Neil on Dec 5, 2007 19:09:25 GMT -8
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Neil
Voyager
Posts: 7,189
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Post by Neil on Dec 6, 2007 17:35:08 GMT -8
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