SolDuc
Voyager
West Coast Cyclist
SolDuc and SOBC - Photo by Scott
Posts: 2,055
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Post by SolDuc on Dec 9, 2012 11:50:10 GMT -8
And...I have one more pic that is for Ferrynut: (right under the nameplate, that's you) Steve: 200+ photos? I took 485!
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Post by Steve Rosenow on Dec 9, 2012 12:23:46 GMT -8
Yeah, a lot of them ended up being unusable or close to being duplicates. I usually shoot less to preserve space on my SD card for client work, and other stuff if I know I'm going to be traveling.
I have the Salish and Klahowya pix done (waiting to be uploaded), I'm taking off to do some errands and when I return I'll post those plus the ones I took aboard the Kitsap.
I took the last sailing out of Seattle at 12:50AM and caught some nice night shots of the Kitsap and experimented with some techniques with my flash and long exposures.
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SolDuc
Voyager
West Coast Cyclist
SolDuc and SOBC - Photo by Scott
Posts: 2,055
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Post by SolDuc on Dec 9, 2012 12:35:57 GMT -8
Yeah, a lot of them ended up being unusable or close to being duplicates. I usually shoot less to preserve space on my SD card for client work, and other stuff if I know I'm going to be traveling. haha, inverse for me. I usually empty my SD before doing those trips and I always carry at least 16GB (2x8GB) of space with me. I never used a more than one card but it's better having more memory than not enough.
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Post by Steve Rosenow on Dec 9, 2012 17:00:10 GMT -8
Upon arrival at Colman Dock, I was informed that the Salish would be a half hour behind schedule. At that point, I grabbed my camera gear and headed up to the terminal, where I bought some M&Ms and a bottle of water. From there, I headed down to the No. 1 Slip and watched as the Salish made her slow arrival to the dock. Her arrival was done with a USCG 2-boat escort, (which also escorted the Kitsap to the dock) and was filled with a little bit of eagerness on my part. This is my third time being aboard the Salish. I referred to this crossing as a "Don't get used to it, as it's likely to never happen again" moment! The Salish with one USCG boat making way for Slip 1. As I was taking this photo, her horn sounded. Which also sounded again the closer she got to the dock. The Salish making way to the dock, with the last frame showing the Wenatchee also making way to the terminal. The Salish at Slip 1. I have returned to my car in this photo. I had a trip to Wenatchee to make after this crossing, so I elected to drive on, and had the Salish been running on time, I nearly would've missed the departure! I arrived at the dock right at 11:10, which was her scheduled departure time. Boarding! The walkway platform is deployed to the picklefork, an unusual sight for this particular class of boat! Smith Tower reflecting off of one of the No. 2 End pilothouse windows. The No. 2 End Port Side sundeck ladderway. The back of No. 1 End's pilothouse. "Your Attention Please, we are now arriving at our destination..." has been sounded, and it's time to head back to the car deck. Here I am, standing at the back of my car (lower right), taking this photo of the Bremerton easing into the main slip at Bremerton. The Salish setting a perfect, and albeit likely-to-be-very-rare backdrop for the Harborside Fountain park scene. The Salish @ Bremerton's Slip 1. I have taken many a photo of the Kaleetan from these vantage points, and this was surreal seeing a KDT-class boat in Kaleetan's normal spot. The Salish departing for Seattle once again. Like my many photos of the Kaleetan from this angle, this was a treat! After I left here, I went to photograph the Kalakala, then headed over to Wenatchee after picking my brother up at a semi truck terminal in Kent. After I dropped my brother off in Wenatchee, I headed back, and I was lucky enough to make the last crossing of the night on the M.V. Kitsap, out of Seattle. Upon my arrival to Bremerton, I photographed the Salish at Bremerton Slip #2 for the night. Likely the last time we'll see this in a long time. I'd have to admit, yesterday was an awesome day. Got to experience my first ever crossing on an Evergreen State-class ferry, and the first crossing on the Salish in an unexpected setting! Without further adieu, I close this post off with the M.V. Salish, docked for the night, at Bremerton. A perfect cap to an excellent day for ferry watching!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 9, 2012 17:20:25 GMT -8
Upon arrival at Colman Dock, I was informed that the Salish would be a half hour behind schedule. At that point, I grabbed my camera gear and headed up to the terminal, where I bought some M&Ms and a bottle of water. From there, I headed down to the No. 1 Slip and watched as the Salish made her slow arrival to the dock. Her arrival was done with a USCG 2-boat escort, (which also escorted the Kitsap to the dock) and was filled with a little bit of eagerness on my part. Why was USCG escorting the Salish and Kitsap when the boats were arriving in Seattle?
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SolDuc
Voyager
West Coast Cyclist
SolDuc and SOBC - Photo by Scott
Posts: 2,055
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Post by SolDuc on Dec 9, 2012 17:22:02 GMT -8
The Salish with one USCG boat making way for Slip 1. As I was taking this photo, her horn sounded. Which also sounded again the closer she got to the dock. The horn might've been the Puyallup's. Was dissapointed as it was only one long, without the two shorts The Salish making way to the dock, with the last frame showing the Wenatchee also making way to the terminal. Missed! The Puyallup is actually the boat departing, and the Wenatchee arrived at Colman Dock when we left.
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SolDuc
Voyager
West Coast Cyclist
SolDuc and SOBC - Photo by Scott
Posts: 2,055
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Post by SolDuc on Dec 9, 2012 17:26:13 GMT -8
Upon arrival at Colman Dock, I was informed that the Salish would be a half hour behind schedule. At that point, I grabbed my camera gear and headed up to the terminal, where I bought some M&Ms and a bottle of water. From there, I headed down to the No. 1 Slip and watched as the Salish made her slow arrival to the dock. Her arrival was done with a USCG 2-boat escort, (which also escorted the Kitsap to the dock) and was filled with a little bit of eagerness on my part. Why was USCG escorting the Salish and Kitsap when the boats were arriving in Seattle? USCG does a lot of random drills when they escort the ferry to a certain point with little armed zodiacs. What a zodiac looks like (with the Salish): And they also do more serious (but as random) drills when they deploy the rescue boat and stuff.
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Post by suburbanite on Dec 9, 2012 18:35:12 GMT -8
WSF just held the Salish at Coleman Dock to allow the Kitsap to lap her.
Amazing.
She must have the 6000 most underutilized horsepower on Puget Sound.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Dec 9, 2012 18:49:03 GMT -8
I think WSF will never put the Salish or any of her sisters on the Seattle to Bremerton route again.
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Post by Steve Rosenow on Dec 9, 2012 19:55:28 GMT -8
What really frustrates me is that the Salish can do 15 knots with relative ease and still do the crossing in an hour. When I boarded it up in Port Townsend it did ~15.6 knots steady from the time we gained cruising speed until the time we made the turn and slow-down to go to into Keystone Harbor.
I'm not sure if it has to do with fuel, but I think they're doing a big disservice to the riders and aren't really helping the public's perception of the ferry fleet in general if they are going to ever run the Salish ever again over there.
I had a lengthy conversation with a deckhand on the Kitsap last night. She was rather stunned to find that there are actually fans of the ferries, and wishes more people would appreciate them. Appreciation and a little of the "ya gotta spend money to make money" mentality applies.
I sorta wish we'd have talked to someone aboard the Salish to find out why they were running it so slow.
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Post by hergfest on Dec 9, 2012 20:22:03 GMT -8
Vibration problems? I know that they had issues on the Chetzemoka.
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Post by Steve Rosenow on Dec 9, 2012 20:34:41 GMT -8
It vibrated a little bit when the propulsion was @ full power pulling out of Seattle, from what I saw yesterday, but to me it was like the vibration that the Kitsap normally puts out.
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Post by chokai on Dec 9, 2012 21:10:02 GMT -8
How'd you figure she was doing 15.6kts? GPS? What was the tide?
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Post by Steve Rosenow on Dec 9, 2012 21:31:40 GMT -8
How'd you figure she was doing 15.6kts? GPS? What was the tide? I have an Android smartphone with GPS and my GPS function on it, plus the WSF mobile app's Vessel Watch both concurred.
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Post by chokai on Dec 9, 2012 23:17:04 GMT -8
Your phone's GPS is going to be measuring ground speed, so there will be no regard to the tide/currents and the force they exert on the hull of the boat. When sailing through Rich Passage this summer when I took picts of Kaleetan our sailboats GPS speed was ~2 knots, but the knotmeter was reading close to 6 for the actual speed of the hull through the water. The current in Rich Passage was nearly 4 knots (at least). There's a strong incoming tide right now and I just saw Kitsap spike to 19.3 knots going through Rich before dropping back to a more "sedate" 17. Vessel watch from what I can tell appears to come from the GPS data on the boats.
I personally do not think the KdTs are capable of more than the mid 15's that you saw without a hefty current. Also outside of raw HP there are limits to a boats speed based on it's hull length ratio, design and things such as the reduction gears but the role of those here is far far beyond me.
The PT/K run has a light east/west trend. The current in Admiralty Inlet can easily run several knots and up to 5 or 6 in some places. I used to love taking a speedboat through there with the tide and a little weather, what an awesome ride, or so my teenage self thought. :-) So while most of the current is perpendicular to your route, you might've gotten a little bit of a current assist for part or all of your crossing.
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Post by chokai on Dec 12, 2012 15:59:06 GMT -8
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Post by Steve Rosenow on Dec 12, 2012 16:42:44 GMT -8
I'll be taking a crossing on the Salish tomorrow for another trip over to Wenatchee. We shall see if they do that.
I dunno, but having been aboard it doing a hair over 15 and a half knots up at PT-K, I think the state can up the speed a bit.
*EDIT*
Seems to be a copy-pasta article from one I saw on KOMO News.
Nowhere did I find it in the article where the reporter or author asked that question although I did find it in the comment thread by a user of that paper's comment forums.
Either way, it's a question that needs to be asked. The Salish can do faster.
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Post by chokai on Dec 12, 2012 20:55:18 GMT -8
3rd paragraph from the bottom would imply the reporter asked the question and it wasn't a comment from a reader: "The 64-car boat, though only 18 months old, is traveling at only 11 or 12 knots. Ferries officials couldn't say Monday if it's just slow or if other factors were involved."
Regardless I agree definitely a question that can be asked very strenously. These boats were supposed to do 15 knots in trials, did they actually do that? If Chetzy with her fixed props can do even a knot more they should've been swapped at the end of the night one day. Poor commuters are miserable. If it's a fuel economy issue here I think it'd be safe to set that aside for a week given the situation. :-(
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Post by rusty on Dec 12, 2012 22:52:47 GMT -8
One story of the KdT's is that at high turns the propeller cavitates due to the boats' riding high in the water compared to the original Island Home. They can't put the power that they have into the wheel to achieve their potential speed.
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Post by Steve Rosenow on Dec 12, 2012 23:30:02 GMT -8
If that were true, it still doesn't explain why they're running an even 13 knots on straight stretches.
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Post by suburbanite on Dec 13, 2012 9:18:57 GMT -8
Steve
By high turns I believe Rusty means high propeller RPMs.
So the extra length added buoyancy and now the boat sits so high that the props can't get a bite in clean water at hull speed?
Ughhhh!
That settles it. It is time to ballast the lean out of the I-Leans.
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Post by chokai on Dec 13, 2012 9:35:45 GMT -8
Hrmm.. This might explain the large amount of spray I've noted in the wakes of the KdT's, in particular when they accellerate or maneuver at high speed. I believe the super-C's have been asserted to have a somewhat similar idiosyncracy with not enough water over the prop resulting in it being perhaps closer to the surface than ideal.
It seems that we are going through death by a thousand papercuts due to our "improvements" to the Island Home design. Each small change that was made might seem on it's own to be not that bad, but combined and you end up with real oddities like this. The original design was a solid boat and we tweaked it around just a little bit to much it seems..
This is almost always what happens when you modify an original design to much without really properly revisiting it. In computer programming we often joke about the "it's only a one line change" syndrome. Ok, but what line of code did you change?
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FNS
Voyager
The Empire Builder train of yesteryear in HO scale
Posts: 4,948
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Post by FNS on Dec 13, 2012 9:59:22 GMT -8
Here's a list of today's speeds as provided by MarineTraffic:
ISLAND HOME WHL-MVY MAX 15.6 AVG 11.2
CHETZEMOKA PDF-TAH MAX 13.4 AVG 09.0
SALISH SEA-BRE MAX 14.4 AVG 12.3
KENNEWICK PTN-KHC MAX 13.8 AVG 11.1
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Post by chokai on Dec 14, 2012 13:20:00 GMT -8
The top speed on the vessel stat page was moved down from 16 to 15 knots recently. :-P That brings them inline with the official trial speed. However most boats on that page list "service speed" (as noted in other discussions regarding top speeds of JMIIs and the like) and it's obvious that 15 knots isn't even the service speed on the KdTs. (See FerryNut's post above for example)
Rusty how much less are they drawing than Island Home. Do you (or someone else) happen to know?
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Post by rusty on Dec 14, 2012 17:27:53 GMT -8
I don't know the specific draft of the KtD's, but they lightened the design by incorporating an aluminum superstructure, elimination of the lift deck, no bow doors; and, as Suburbanite noted (and something I hadn't thought about), they added buoyancy to the design when they lengthened the boat.
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