|
|
Post by Scott on Feb 6, 2011 23:50:27 GMT -8
Here's where we can discuss fundraising ideas for BC Ferries! ;D
Seriously, does anyone have any ideas about what could be done to either reduce the impact of fares on island communities or else help fund increased provincial subsidies to BC Ferries. You can either come up with more (serious) ideas or discuss ones that have been put out there already.
1. What if commercial goods were more highly subsidized and non-commercial travellers were less subsidized? This would help keep the cost of living on these islands lower so people wouldn't feel that they had to move away from their homes because the price of groceries, gas, and other neccessities keep going up because of higher fares. As long as they don't leave the island much, they can afford to live there!
This might also help Island companies stay competitive, being able to "import" and "export" their products without prohibitively high transportation costs.
The negative effect of this would probably be a dampening on tourism, since non-commercial travellers would end up paying more.
2. I really don't like this idea, but what about a Ferry Gas Tax for Islanders to bring them up level with Metro Vancouver and our Translink Gas Tax? In my opinion, it's not really any different than raising fares, except it's got to go through levels of bureaucracy which makes it rather inefficient. But it might seem more fair to non-islanders.
|
|
|
|
Post by DENelson83 on Feb 8, 2011 16:23:44 GMT -8
How about community fundraisers and/or telethons to get the much-needed funds?  |
|
|
|
Post by lmtengs on Feb 8, 2011 17:30:17 GMT -8
How about community fundraisers and/or telethons to get the much-needed funds? - A bake-sale at every ferry terminal?
- Sell chocolate-covered almonds door-to-door?
- Tupperware party at David Hahn's house?
- Sign all the employees up as Avon salespersons?
- Lottery: Win a house, win a
car! retired ferry!
- Set up slot machines in the SeaWest Lounge of all the ships that have them, and in staterooms on all the ships that don't have a SW lounge, and in a corner of the lounge on all the other ships?
- Smoking area entry charge of $8.00, and strictly enforce no-smoking rules everywhere else?
|
|
|
|
Post by WettCoast on Feb 8, 2011 17:39:52 GMT -8
Charge a "Landing Fee" - $75 gets you and car on the boat, but it will take an extra $50 before they'll let you off.
|
|
mrdot
Voyager 
Mr. DOT
Posts: 1,252
|
Post by mrdot on Feb 8, 2011 19:37:01 GMT -8
:)75$ would be a good deal for a northern expedition to brother whitecoast, but I want to say how much I like niel's sig. pic. of Princess of Vancouver at Little River, I think? That must have been an expensive ship to run that route, back when highways did this route, but it sure looks good, when compared to today's menu, served by the pvte. model! :)mrdot.
|
|
|
|
Post by oceaneer77 on Feb 16, 2011 22:16:10 GMT -8
good post topic.. would like to see some other good ideas posted
here are a couple of mine
1) dont buy any more ferry's that are bigger and burn more fuel than the ones that are being replaced! If we have declining ridership and are mandated to keep the runs at the frequency we currently have we need to run the smallest vessel possible for the route.
2) switch as many ferries as possible to CNG for the fuel source.. its way cheaper then diesel and as our ferry's can refuel every night the tanks could be quite small.
In addition the maintenance is way decreased on the engines are CNG is way cleaner to burn. Allot of the engine is the fleet will burn it with modifications.
3) Extra or value added services to existing under used routes (mill bay for example) so in one scenario if you are driving from Duncan to tsawassen you could load on the mill bay and if you booked all the way through to the mainland you would get assured loading passes as a perk. the company makes extra money as now the customer has used the mill bay route and the customer is happy as he/she gets assured loading!
4) re evaluate the pricing for all the runs to be sure that you are not over saturating the price. At a certain price we will see decreasing ridership and no matter how much we charge a loss of revenue will happen. This is happening on the minor routes as people are moving off of the gulf islands as they cannot afford the ferries. If you a healthy and thriving community you will have more riders.
Its a pretty simple concept but one that is beyond BCFCs mental ability.
5) reduce staffing levels, we need to reduce the staffing on land and on the ships.
The on-land staff at head office need to take a 50% cut. I have no idea why the need as many IT people, and market researchers, they are running ferries! not selling scented bath oils. All of the computer programs and infrastructure was suppose dot make things easy but has done the opposite.
The on vessel staff needs to have the union contracts reworked to give broader job descriptions and reduce the crazy overtime that is prevalent in the system.
6) Fleet standardization. This one is had now as the company has totally blown it.
but in a prefect world all the fleet would be standardized. Same engines manufacturer for all ship, same z drives for all the smaller ships, same navigation equipment... you get the idea. At present its a mess with way to many suppliers. This meas a huge parts supply, huge training problems, huge mistakes.
Ok thats my 2 cents
oceaneer
|
|
|
|
Post by lmtengs on Feb 20, 2011 12:00:08 GMT -8
|
|
|
|
Post by Scott on Feb 20, 2011 14:26:52 GMT -8
While I don't think it's very reasonable to expect us to go back 13 years and have the same fares. Not much else still costs the same... inflation is a reality. The price of fuel and labour is higher, so it's going to cost more. However, I would like to see financial statements from BC Ferries from when it was a crown corporation, to see exactly how much we're really saving from all the changes that have been made. Has it made as big a difference as we're led to believe or is it still costing the province similar dollars? |
|
|
|
Post by Dane on Feb 20, 2011 15:58:34 GMT -8
1998.... Somehow, they managed fine, I don't know why they bothered to change the system. It worked, and people were (somewhat) happy. BC Ferries was essentially in a crisis at this time with debt levels and political interference... |
|
Neil
Voyager
Posts: 7,196
|
Post by Neil on Feb 20, 2011 17:06:22 GMT -8
BC Ferries was essentially in a crisis at this time with debt levels and political interference... ... as opposed to 2011, when some have said that BC Ferries' long term debt is unsustainable, when the schedule for new boats has been transformed into a program to keep rusting, 45 year old vessels afloat, and political decisions have been made which could lead to 50% fare increases across the board, unless further political decisions are made to rectify the problem.This is progress? Oh, wait, I forgot. The bathrooms are clean now. So says Dave. |
|
|
|
Post by Dane on Feb 20, 2011 19:34:22 GMT -8
I am not one to defend BCFS, nor will I now, but let's not look to the late 90's as the glory days.
|
|
|
|
Post by WettCoast on Feb 20, 2011 20:58:00 GMT -8
BC Ferries was essentially in a crisis at this time with debt levels and political interference... So what is different now? The debt situation today is much worse than it was then. Political interference has turned into political indifference. Service has not improved in spite of what we are told repeatedly. Affordability is an issue everywhere, particularly so on minor/northern routes. In the slug livery the ferries have never looked so bad. If I think on it I just might be able to come up with something that I could agree is a positive development that has come with the 'new' BC Ferries. |
|
|
|
Post by oceaneer77 on Feb 27, 2011 19:06:22 GMT -8
Thanks for the reply on my post
To clarify a bit.
#1) I agree that the new ships are as efficient when fully loaded. Unfortunately they rarely run it that condition. In a light loaded condition they are way less efficient than the old ships. As as we are seeing declining rider ship the need for more capacity is questionable. If we do see increasing ridership then the point is reversed and we need the bigger ships.
#2) CNG is cheaper than diesel and is almost as efficient when bunt in a proper CNG engine not some converted gasoline engine. MAK, Wartsilla, Caterpillar and all of the other major engine manufactures are building engines for CNG. They are only about 3% less efficient then the Diesel cousins. They also have lower maintenance costs.
It is an investment but at at the rising fuel costs of crude based fuels the payout will be quite short.
I agree that its all a very hard call and in no way can the change happen overnight.
But with a more efficient system and lower costs fares can be reduced which will increase ridership thus starting the whole cycle over again.
The ferry system has strangle many of the small route to death these need to be rebuild/ refreshed or decreasing ridership will be the norm and cost per car / passenger will increase at a rapid rate as it is now.
Oceaneer
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 28, 2011 0:00:24 GMT -8
Trying to increase fuel efficiency isn't going to happen your not going to get away from using a engine that burns oil.
They have tried the diesel electric and it works but it doesn't save much fuel. Diesel fuel is common as mud it can be had anywhere, natural gas isn't common everywhere plus it can be very dangerous.
Break Out Aother Thousand
Operating any kind of boat/ship is expensive nothing you can do about it.
Coast Guard regulations is killing the marine industry not just BCF everybody in the marine industry is feeling the stupidity. Some of these regulations dreamed up gotta be from people that have no clue about marine vessels.
The biggest problem from the start is the meat and potatoes were covered up to make them look pretty.
Mistake 1 spending too much money on making things look pretty the money should have been fixing up and replacing ships and terminal structures.
Mistake 2 making it miserable for the employees- unhappy employees doesn't reduce costs.
Mistake 3 too much management and employees that don't make the company money.
Mistake 4 too much marketing quit the cruise ship idea, tourists don't pay the bills the regular travelers pay the bills. If people want to visit Vancouver Island or the S.C. you have to take a ferry why does it need to be promoted as a luxury liner.
There isn't much you can do except for have the BC gov't take the ferries back as a crown corporation.
The Liberal gov't has this province in such poor economically who knows what is going to happen.
Gordon Campbell made this BCF mess now he is gone, Christy Clark has to deal with the problem.
|
|
bargain
Oiler (New Member)
Posts: 44 
|
Post by bargain on Feb 28, 2011 10:51:58 GMT -8
... The biggest problem from the start is the meat and potatoes were covered up to make them look pretty. Mistake 1 spending too much money on making things look pretty the money should have been fixing up and replacing ships and terminal structures. Mistake 2 making it miserable for the employees- unhappy employees doesn't reduce costs. Mistake 3 too much management and employees that don't make the company money. Mistake 4 too much marketing quit the cruise ship idea, tourists don't pay the bills the regular travelers pay the bills. If people want to visit Vancouver Island or the S.C. you have to take a ferry why does it need to be promoted as a luxury liner. ... If there was regularly scheduled rusty barge sailings every 2 hours I'd take that over the flashy ferries any day. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 1, 2011 12:12:06 GMT -8
In reality do you really need all the extra stuff on the ships these are all things that cost money and do they increase revenue ? "No"
The regular travelers don't buy knick nacks on the ferry, they want some food and a place to sit. Offer reasonable price food and something that is edible.
Regular travelers pay the bills make it so the regular travelers can afford to travel back and forth.
The Glitz and glamour doesn't make things work better, BCF doesn't know the K.I.S.S principle.
|
|
|
|
Post by Low Light Mike on Mar 1, 2011 12:22:59 GMT -8
In reality do you really need all the extra stuff on the ships these are all things that cost money and do they increase revenue ? "No" The regular travelers don't buy knick nacks on the ferry, they want some food and a place to sit. Offer reasonable price food and something that is edible. Regular travelers pay the bills make it so the regular travelers can afford to travel back and forth. The Glitz and glamour doesn't make things work better, BCF doesn't know the K.I.S.S principle. I think this issue needs to be looked at differently for the mainline & northern routes, versus all the minor routes. - simple service seems appropriate for minor routes, because these are mainly regular travelers and are short-haul. - the demographic for northern summer-service and for mainline routes (route 1 especially) is that there are plenty of customers who will pay for extra things like a quiet lounge, a buffet, a gift-shop etc. Plenty of money is made on these extras on these specific routes. I think there is a case to be made for returning the minor routes to the Ministry of Highways control. But not so much for the mainline moneymaker routes. I think that lumping all the routes under one business-model (as is currently done) is a big issue and has caused lots of problems to the users of the minor-routes. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 3, 2011 12:00:28 GMT -8
BC Ferries needs to separate out what I would call the cattle haulers.
The routes that are the supplier runs where regular travelers travel every day and where the commercial traffic is.
To start with Langdale to Horeshoe Bay is would be in the cattle hauler group, Saltery Bay to Earls Cove along with Comox to Westview. Some of the major runs from the mainland to Van isle.
The commuter runs like the Gulf Islands etc should go back to the gov't and the bowen island run.
All in all I think your going to see BCF go back to the gov't but it won't be after things are even more screwed up than they are.
|
|
