FNS
Voyager
The Empire Builder train of yesteryear in HO scale
Posts: 4,948
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Post by FNS on Feb 18, 2011 17:14:09 GMT -8
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Post by lmtengs on Feb 18, 2011 17:48:49 GMT -8
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Post by EGfleet on Feb 18, 2011 18:22:10 GMT -8
That route is at least 50 kilometers long according to the distance scale on the left of the page, and it travels through mostly open ocean. Is this the kind of environment the ships were designed to travel in? They were originally designed to ferry oil rig workers out to the derricks in the Gulf of Mexico, so yes. WSF altered the design a bit to expand the passenger carrying capacity.
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Post by BreannaF on Feb 20, 2011 21:09:06 GMT -8
From the Seattle Times: Washington state sells 2 ferries to TanzaniaWashington state sells two of its passenger ferries to Tanzania. By Susan Gilmore Seattle Times staff reporter The state finally has sold two of its discarded passenger-only ferries, the Kalama and the Skagit, to the African nation Tanzania. The ferries have been docked and inactive since September 2009. The Legislature ordered the state to get out of the passenger-only ferry business in '06. The two ferries had been sold to a boat broker in Port Coquitlam, B.C., which sold them to Tanzania. They will be put in service between the mainland of Tanzania and the Zanzibar archipelago. They were sold for $400,000 combined, far below the $900,000 value the state said they were worth in December 2009. Marta Coursey, spokeswoman for Washington State Ferries, said the two boats will be taken to Africa by cargo ship. The state had hoped to sell the two 112-foot boats locally, but when that failed, it placed them for auction on eBay, asking $300,000 each, with no success. The ferries were built in New Orleans and purchased in 1989 for $5 million. Ferry historian Steve Pickens said the Kalama and the Skagit were the first two passenger-only boats the state built. They were supposed to go into service in 1989 but were tied up because there was no money to run them. Following the Loma Prieta earthquake of 1989, the two vessels were sent to San Francisco and served commuters crossing the bay while the city's bridges were repaired. ================================================ It would be cool if they kept the names, even though they won't, of course.
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Post by Kahloke on Jul 18, 2012 9:23:16 GMT -8
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Post by dasgeneral on Jul 18, 2012 12:35:13 GMT -8
So has the MV/Skagit actually sunk, or is it just capsized on the surface? If it's sunk, I doubt that they'll try to salvage the boat, it's a really busy shipping channel and the Tanzanian government probably doesn't have the resources to mount a salvage operation.
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Neil
Voyager
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Post by Neil on Jul 18, 2012 13:00:50 GMT -8
So has the MV/Skagit actually sunk, or is it just capsized on the surface? If it's sunk, I doubt that they'll try to salvage the boat, it's a really busy shipping channel and the Tanzanian government probably doesn't have the resources to mount a salvage operation. Of much more concern to me is the loss of life, and the number still missing. An update: www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-18890691This was a boat designed to cross Puget Sound. Does anyone know anything about its suitability for two hour, open ocean crossings? Evergreenfleet's page mentions WSF adding a deck to the original design, as well as the boat's tendency to roll in the waves.
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Post by EGfleet on Jul 18, 2012 13:36:58 GMT -8
So has the MV/Skagit actually sunk, or is it just capsized on the surface? If it's sunk, I doubt that they'll try to salvage the boat, it's a really busy shipping channel and the Tanzanian government probably doesn't have the resources to mount a salvage operation. Of much more concern to me is the loss of life, and the number still missing. An update: www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-18890691This was a boat designed to cross Puget Sound. Does anyone know anything about its suitability for two hour, open ocean crossings? Evergreenfleet's page mentions WSF adding a deck to the original design, as well as the boat's tendency to roll in the waves. Before the design was messed with, the boats were actually intended to ferry workers to off-shore oil rigs in the Gulf of Mexico, so they could handle open water--at least in the original design. That being said, in rough weather, the sailings were often canceled and on more than one occasion, passengers were ordered to leave the upper deck and come down stairs in rough weather to help the stability of the boat. It's sounding like the boat was most likely overloaded. Reuters has the death toll at 31 now and say the boat "capsized and sank."
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FNS
Voyager
The Empire Builder train of yesteryear in HO scale
Posts: 4,948
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Post by FNS on Jul 18, 2012 13:59:30 GMT -8
This source says that more than 280 people were on board the SKAGIT. 250 adults and 31 children. She must have been overloaded. www.stuff.co.nz/world/africa/7306577/Ferry-sinks-off-Zanzibar-24-deadThere were condolences from this site: laprincessaworld.blogspot.com/2012/07/condolences-to-sea-gull-ferry-accident.htmlCondolences to the Sea Gull Ferry accident Victims and familiesVodacom announces that the 2012 Awards for Digital Excellence has been postponed until further notice, due to the unfortunately tragic events concerning the MV Seagull ferry in Zanzibar.
Chief Officer of Corporate Affairs Mwamvita Makamba stated that "Vodacom wishes to extend thoughts and prayers to those affected by the tragedy."
According to the BBC, the MV Skagit, carrying at least 250 people has sunk near the island of Zanzibar. A simple google search of the "MV Skagit" reveals that this ferry was sold to Tanzania from the Washington State Department in 2011. It was built in 1989 and had been docked and inactive since September 2009. The state Legislature directed Washington State to end its passenger-only service in 2006. Yet, Tanzania bought the ship last year and continued using it until today, I guess ... this habit of using the "left overs" of developed countries needs to come to an end. Safety should come first! I guess that the "Seagull Line" owned this ferry.
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Post by dasgeneral on Jul 18, 2012 14:28:55 GMT -8
As far as I understand, that boat was perfectly safe when it was being operated by the WSF. Blaming Washington State for the safety failure of a company in Tanzania makes little sense, and sounds more like scapegoating than a reasoned argument. Tanzania is just now emerging out of nearly five decades of economic stagnation following its independence from Britain and these ferry accidents are a result of poor safety standards and lax enforcement of current standards, and I would assume less than stellar maintenance and upkeep by the current owners.
Honestly, the companies operating these ferries need to invest in their own designs and start purchasing them, rather than older boats that are near the end of their lifespans. A purpose-built boat for the Dar es Salaam-Zanzibar run makes more sense than a boat that spent its operational years in an inland waterway and did not operate in high winds. The crew must have known that WSF didn't operate it in high winds and transferred the passengers to the bottom deck during high winds to keep stability. If not, then the company that bought the ferry is at fault.
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Post by Kahloke on Jul 18, 2012 15:27:11 GMT -8
As far as I understand, that boat was perfectly safe when it was being operated by the WSF. Blaming Washington State for the safety failure of a company in Tanzania makes little sense, and sounds more like scapegoating than a reasoned argument. Tanzania is just now emerging out of nearly five decades of economic stagnation following its independence from Britain and these ferry accidents are a result of poor safety standards and lax enforcement of current standards, and I would assume less than stellar maintenance and upkeep by the current owners. Honestly, the companies operating these ferries need to invest in their own designs and start purchasing them, rather than older boats that are near the end of their lifespans. A purpose-built boat for the Dar es Salaam-Zanzibar run makes more sense than a boat that spent its operational years in an inland waterway and did not operate in high winds. The crew must have known that WSF didn't operate it in high winds and transferred the passengers to the bottom deck during high winds to keep stability. If not, then the company that bought the ferry is at fault. Most of the articles I read didn't even link the ferry with Washington State outside of our own local news. As far as I can tell, no one has blamed WSF, so I'm not sure where your reference to blame came from. Regarding these countries investing in new designs, most of these places are dirt poor. They don't have the means to acquire new vessels which is why they are always running 1st World hand-me-downs. That said, skagit and Kalama really aren't well suited to the open ocean route the operator runs them on, and now the ultimate tragedy, which is unfortunately all too common in these countries, has played itself out again. This isn't the first time, nor will it be the last. Safety regs mean very little in impoverished/developing nations. It's very sad, and my condolences to all the families who lost loved ones in this terrible accident.
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Post by dasgeneral on Jul 18, 2012 15:43:28 GMT -8
I was referencing that blog post that FerrynutSeattle posted, which read to me like blaming WSF for the safety failure, citing Tanzania's use of "left-overs" of developed countries and the need to put safety first. Even though those vessels may be hand-me-downs, they are still very well maintained and should continue to run safely and effectively for years after their purchase.
In any case, this is a terrible tragedy and it is unfortunate that there should be loss of life in 2012 on this type of vessel. Condolences to the family members who lost loved ones in the accident, and I apologize for not stating it before in my first post.
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Post by EGfleet on Jul 18, 2012 15:53:08 GMT -8
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Post by chokai on Jul 18, 2012 15:55:53 GMT -8
The latest articles are now indicating that at least 290 people as well as cargo (unknown what that means) were on board. The # on board as well as other weight keeps slowly creeping up which is ominous as to the cause. Even 290 if I recall this would significantly exceed the capacity she was rated for, at least when in WSF service, in protected waters, much less in the near open ocean.
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Post by Barnacle on Jul 18, 2012 16:03:54 GMT -8
Scattered reports are indicating that it may have been the Kalama.
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Post by ferryfanatic on Jul 18, 2012 19:38:46 GMT -8
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FNS
Voyager
The Empire Builder train of yesteryear in HO scale
Posts: 4,948
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Post by FNS on Jul 18, 2012 20:50:04 GMT -8
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 19, 2012 6:11:00 GMT -8
Regarding these countries investing in new designs, most of these places are dirt poor. They don't have the means to acquire new vessels which is why they are always running 1st World hand-me-downs. That said, skagit and Kalama really aren't well suited to the open ocean route the operator runs them on, and now the ultimate tragedy, which is unfortunately all too common in these countries, has played itself out again. This isn't the first time, nor will it be the last. Safety regs mean very little in impoverished/developing nations. It's very sad, and my condolences to all the families who lost loved ones in this terrible accident. For your Information individuals who have dared to invest in this sector are not that poor and that can not purchase new vessels. We have brand new vessels of our designs. If you didn't know most of our fast ferries are of our own designs and are built in Australia. Good examples are Kilimanjaro 1,2 & 3 boats that are owned and run by a Tanzanian business tycoon under the umbrella of his Azam Marine company. You can visit the following sites to confirm what I am saying.. www.azammarine.com/www.azammarine.com/azam-news/Below is an image of one of the three newly designs from Australia. www.azammarine.com/images/kilimanjaro-1-night-view.jpg
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FNS
Voyager
The Empire Builder train of yesteryear in HO scale
Posts: 4,948
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Post by FNS on Jul 19, 2012 8:13:59 GMT -8
Regarding these countries investing in new designs, most of these places are dirt poor. They don't have the means to acquire new vessels which is why they are always running 1st World hand-me-downs. That said, skagit and Kalama really aren't well suited to the open ocean route the operator runs them on, and now the ultimate tragedy, which is unfortunately all too common in these countries, has played itself out again. This isn't the first time, nor will it be the last. Safety regs mean very little in impoverished/developing nations. It's very sad, and my condolences to all the families who lost loved ones in this terrible accident. For your Information individuals who have dared to invest in this sector are not that poor and that can not purchase new vessels. We have brand new vessels of our designs. If you didn't know most of our fast ferries are of our own designs and are built in Australia. Good examples are Kilimanjaro 1,2 & 3 boats that are owned and run by a Tanzanian business tycoon under the umbrella of his Azam Marine company. You can visit the following sites to confirm what I am saying.. www.azammarine.com/www.azammarine.com/azam-news/Below is an image of one of the three newly designs from Australia. www.azammarine.com/images/kilimanjaro-1-night-view.jpg You're a good transportation company. Thanks for your info.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 19, 2012 8:17:02 GMT -8
It is true that MV Skagit, a former Washington state passenger-only ferry, which was sold, relocated to Tanzania capsized in high winds between Tanzania and Zanzibar on 18 July 2012. The ferry had departed from Dar es Salaam en route to Zanzibar before it capsized due to high winds. A safety officer with the Zanzibar Port Corp. said the vessel was overturned, bottom-up. Mwinyihaji Makame, a deputy minister in the office of the president in Zanzibar said it remained unclear how many passengers were on board, but the BBC reported the ferry carried more than 250 people when it sank. An AP photographer reported that it carried more than 290, including more than 30 children. Washington State Ferries documents listed its passenger capacity at 250. The Skagit was formerly a passenger-only vessel between Seattle and Vashon Island in the United States, but Washington State Ferries discontinued its foot-ferry routes and later sold the Skagit in 2011 for use in Tanzania. The MV Skagit and MV Kalama, built in 1989, were taken out of service in 2009 and eventually sold together for a total $400,000 to Scope Community Consultants of Port Coquitlam, B.C., according to an announcement by Washington State Ferries. Washington state had tried before that to sell the Skagit and Kalama on eBay, for $300,000 each. The boats are 112 feet long and were supposed to last 25 years — so the Skagit would be in its final years of normal operating life. Some pictures for the tragedy can be found at: bongoline.com/blogs/2/729/picha-mbalimbali-kuhusiana-na-kuzama-kwa-meli-ya-mv-star-gateAlso, you can view a video clip of the vessel sanking at: bongoline.com/videos/2/1579/mv-skagit-ikizamaIt is terrible.
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Neil
Voyager
Posts: 7,177
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Post by Neil on Jul 19, 2012 9:22:22 GMT -8
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Post by Mike C on Jul 19, 2012 12:49:22 GMT -8
For your Information individuals who have dared to invest in this sector are not that poor and that can not purchase new vessels. We have brand new vessels of our designs. If you didn't know most of our fast ferries are of our own designs and are built in Australia. Good examples are Kilimanjaro 1,2 & 3 boats that are owned and run by a Tanzanian business tycoon under the umbrella of his Azam Marine company. You can visit the following sites to confirm what I am saying.. www.azammarine.com/www.azammarine.com/azam-news/Below is an image of one of the three newly designs from Australia. www.azammarine.com/images/kilimanjaro-1-night-view.jpg How do you respond to the heavy critism of the evacuation operation of the vessel during the sinking, as well as the fact that your official passenger count was 41 over the indicated passenger capacity of the vessel? Regardless of whether or not you can or cannot afford new vessels, it would appear that your existing operating standards are far below what is expected in marine transportation. You cannot defend that.
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FNS
Voyager
The Empire Builder train of yesteryear in HO scale
Posts: 4,948
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Post by FNS on Jul 19, 2012 15:09:25 GMT -8
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Post by lmtengs on Jul 19, 2012 19:08:44 GMT -8
For your Information individuals who have dared to invest in this sector are not that poor and that can not purchase new vessels. We have brand new vessels of our designs. If you didn't know most of our fast ferries are of our own designs and are built in Australia. Good examples are Kilimanjaro 1,2 & 3 boats that are owned and run by a Tanzanian business tycoon under the umbrella of his Azam Marine company. You can visit the following sites to confirm what I am saying.. www.azammarine.com/www.azammarine.com/azam-news/Below is an image of one of the three newly designs from Australia. www.azammarine.com/images/kilimanjaro-1-night-view.jpg How do you respond to the heavy critism of the evacuation operation of the vessel during the sinking, as well as the fact that your official passenger count was 41 over the indicated passenger capacity of the vessel? Regardless of whether or not you can or cannot afford new vessels, it would appear that your existing operating standards are far below what is expected in marine transportation. You cannot defend that. The Skagit and Kalama aren't part of their fleet. It says so on their site.
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Post by EGfleet on Jul 22, 2012 6:48:56 GMT -8
146 presumed dead in Tanzania ferry accidentBy Ali Sultan Associated Press Published: Saturday, July 21 2012 11:08 p.m. MDT ZANZIBAR, Tanzania — Tanzania's government on Saturday halted rescue operations for a ferry accident that appears to have killed 146 people. Government official Ali Juma Shamhuna said 69 passengers were confirmed dead and 77 were still missing, but the rescue efforts were called off because it was unlikely to still find any passengers alive in the Indian Ocean three days after the accident. The ferry MV Skagit, which capsized Wednesday while traveling from the East African nation's economic capital Dar es Salaam to the island of Zanzibar, was carrying 291 passengers, although it had only been certified to carry 250, he added. A total of 145 passengers, among them also foreign tourists, were rescued after the accident. The government closed the identification center for victims Saturday after bodies recovered a day earlier had already decomposed beyond recognition, said Dr. Marijani Msafiri, an official in charge of the rescue operation. Rescue efforts had been slowed down by heavy winds and strong currents over the past days. One rescue diver, Ali Ramadhan, said divers tried to find the sunken ship, diving to a depth of 25 yards but couldn't find it. He speculated that underwater currents may have pushed it away from where it sank. Last September, more than 200 people were killed when a crowded ferry traveling between two islands of Zanzibar sank. www.deseretnews.com/article/765591378/146-presumed-dead-in-Tanzania-ferry-accident.htmlRelated Stories A report on the Huffington post that has footage of the capsized Skagit: www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/07/21/tanzania-ferry-accident_n_1691630.htmlI've heard varying reports on the depth at which she really is, from "25 yards" to "25 meters" to "100-200 meters."
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