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Post by Some guy on Dec 8, 2006 7:00:16 GMT -8
"It has been an internal process," said communications vice-president Mark Stefanson, steadfastly refusing to give hints. "We are phasing out the Queen [names] and we are looking at a theme for the three [new] northern vessels," he said. What do you all think about BC Ferries phasing out the Queen names?
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Post by Curtis on Dec 8, 2006 8:32:24 GMT -8
It's a total break of tradition.
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Post by Mike C on Dec 8, 2006 9:37:45 GMT -8
I actually don't mind, really, just that 'Coastal' is not the first thing we would think of when we'd think of a new theme.
As many would agree with myself, the Wave scheme isn't all that pleasent, or not to me, anyway. Phasing out the Queen names is like phasing out the Dogwood, which is exactley what they did, I'm not too impressed about it.
I mean, in 20 years there will still be Queen ferries lingering around, moreso then those Coastal boats. -Queen of Cumberland, -Queen of Capilano, -Skeena Queen, -Hopefully not the Queen of Chilliwack to name a few. BC Ferries is never going to be able to scratch out their Dogwood past, even if they change their logo, their ferry names, their attitude in the Customer Service department, re-painting the side of their ferry, or changing the theme totally.
In summary, I'm don't really care, but if I did, I'd stick with Queen.
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Post by Barnacle on Dec 8, 2006 15:53:33 GMT -8
I think it's totally abhorrent that BC Ferries is attempting to disregard their history. It's as poor as when Washington State attempted to distance themselves from the Chinook names of days gone by, starting with the Olympic and Rhododendron in 1953, the Evergreen State in 1954 (admittedly all names I've grown to love), and finally the aborted Vacation State and Washington State in 1958 and 1959. (They became the Klahowya & Tillikum for the non-initiates.)
And, because I feel BC Ferries is making a mistake by jettisoning its past, I'm trying to convince as many people at WSF as possible that we should commemorate the retirement of the last four Black Ball vessels by re-using the names of other Black Ball vessels for at least a couple of WSF's new boats (should they ever get built, heavy sigh).
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Post by Scott on Dec 8, 2006 23:36:23 GMT -8
I too am disappointed that they are phasing out the "Queen" name on the ships. I hope they can come up with some original names for the new ferries. I'm not a big fan of the "Coastal" prefix - it just doesn't have much meaning to it and doesn't reflect British Columbia in any way at all. I will be surprised if our new northern vessels don't have the "Northern" prefix, which is even worse than "Coastal". They'll probably be something like Northern Explorer, Northern Expedition, and Northern Enchantment or something to that effect. I'm hoping they'll come up with something a bit better than that. Maybe the prefix, "Bella" or something:) Just an idea... I'm not sure what it means, although I think it's an English massacre of some Native word:)
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Post by Political Incorrectness on Dec 8, 2006 23:45:42 GMT -8
Why not just have a plain old name like Rachel Marie or Melissa Anne ? That is what the two private fast ferries here are named. or why not a sufix called "of the Coast". BCFS, read this and listen. Your fans are important!
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Post by WettCoast on Dec 10, 2006 20:58:06 GMT -8
BCFS's seems determined to wipe out their past. Since going 'private' (cough, cough, laugh) they sacked the dogwood, giving us in its place mating slugs. They also gave us a less than pleasing paint scheme. It should come as no surprise that they want to give ships names that break completely with their history. What a shame.
With any kind of luck they will rethink this and bring us back BC Ferries 'Classic', just like Coke's fiasco with new Coke giving way to the old Coke now known as 'Classic Coke'. This is not likely to happen until Admiral Gord gets the boot.
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Post by yvr on Dec 11, 2006 9:52:36 GMT -8
It's interesting to note that John H. and Cascade have stated that engine problems haunted the vessel in her early years. Yet there were no details available in the public realm. Suddenly on December 3rd the Times Colonist publishes a story quoting BCF that states - yes the ship did have engine trouble, and supposedly that engine was replaced.
Just another example of BCF reading the material posted on this web site, and responding to it. If only they would respond to the doubling of costs for Sonia's acquisition. But alas deathly silence!
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Neil
Voyager
Posts: 7,177
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Post by Neil on Dec 11, 2006 21:47:08 GMT -8
yvr- While it would be nice to think we have some influence, it's a real stretch to believe that Capt. Trafford Taylor was taking time out of piloting the Sonia across the ocean to concern himself with the musings of a handful of ferry fans on an internet chat forum. Not that there's anything wrong with internet chat forums. I mean.... here we are.
It should be acknowledged, too, that the first credible information most of us got concerning any serious engine problems on the Sonia came not from anyone on this forum, but from Capt. Taylor himself. No cover up there.
"Deathly silence" on the purchase costs? Methinks your prose has a purple hue. We know what most of the money has gone for. Maybe financing costs accounts for the rest. In due time, I'm sure.
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Neil
Voyager
Posts: 7,177
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Post by Neil on Dec 12, 2006 9:54:33 GMT -8
cascade- sorry mate, but your timeline is off. The engine problem on the Sonia occured, and was repaired, well before BC Ferries expressed any interest. Although ferry fans in BC couldn't expect to be aware of it, I would imagine that anyone who is actually in the ferry business in Europe would have known that the ship was in for major repairs at the time of the engine replacement, as those things can't exactly be kept secret in the industry.
As for your insinuations about Capt. Taylor's maritime experience, perhaps it would be best if they were backed up with some actual insight.
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Post by Retrovision on Dec 12, 2006 12:05:26 GMT -8
They also really seem to be promoting this vessel as a beauty. I think many may be disappointed once they finally see it. On the other hand it may have a very nice interior. My biggest concern is where will the tourists sit who are hoping to see that glorious Inside Passage scenery? I have seen no answer to that question - yet. They also really seem to be promoting this as a replacement for the Queen of the North, and no other vessel, when in fact this entire time BCFS has been planning on making her the designated Hecate Strait - QCI / Haida Gwaii to Prince Rupert - vessel after the relatively short period of time waiting for a new-build Northern Vessel to be designated to the Inside Passage route. So the Sonia is actually, and has always been, the replacement for the Queen of Prince Rupert. Although I'm used to these kinds of lies for the sake of shameless promotional schemes coming from private corporations, this one seems to hit-home for me as it has to do with our fleet. The silver lining that I can see in this is the fact that her lack of good views and her uninspired design will soon, for the most part, be relegated to the mainly open-water crossing to the Queen Charlotte Islands / Haida Gwaii.
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Post by Dane on Dec 12, 2006 14:21:59 GMT -8
They don't want to confuse people. People are stupid.
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Neil
Voyager
Posts: 7,177
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Post by Neil on Dec 12, 2006 14:31:39 GMT -8
So the Sonia is actually, and has always been, the replacement for the Queen of Prince Rupert. Although I'm used to these kinds of lies for the sake of shameless promotional schemes coming from private corporations, this one seems to hit-home for me as it has to do with our fleet.. Isn't the Sonia sailing north to Victoria right now because Queen of The North sunk? And isn't it going to be replacing the 'North, at least until the new ship comes on line? After which, maybe it'll be taking over from the 'Rupert. Which seems fine to me. It may not be very attractive on the outside, but the interior photos we've seen seem to put it on a par with the 'North. Not sure what 'lie' you're refering to, or what the 'shameless promotion' is.
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Post by Queen of Nanaimo Teen on Dec 12, 2006 16:06:19 GMT -8
So the lifeboats that the sonia has. Are they similar to the ones the V and B Class have?
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Post by Curtis on Dec 12, 2006 16:07:13 GMT -8
Yeah it should go something like this.
The Sonia Arrives, has her refit, takes over the Inside passage route, since she's bigger than the QPR possibly becomes the vessel that's year round in the northern routes giving the QPR some rest, this continues till 2009 when the QPR replacement arrives this allows the QPR to retire from regular service and the Sonia Takes over all of the QPR's jobs as the year round inside Passage vessel.
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Post by Retrovision on Dec 12, 2006 16:15:29 GMT -8
So the Sonia is actually, and has always been, the replacement for the Queen of Prince Rupert. Although I'm used to these kinds of lies for the sake of shameless promotional schemes coming from private corporations, this one seems to hit-home for me as it has to do with our fleet.. Isn't the Sonia sailing north to Victoria right now because Queen of The North sunk? And isn't it going to be replacing the 'North, at least until the new ship comes on line? After which, maybe it'll be taking over from the 'Rupert. Which seems fine to me. It may not be very attractive on the outside, but the interior photos we've seen seem to put it on a par with the 'North. Not sure what 'lie' you're refering to, or what the 'shameless promotion' is. Is this constructive critisism through playing devil's advocate, or does our current SoCred so-called Liberal BC government somehow deserve one of the few outspoken people left who still often make the most sense to come to their defence? Isn't a route that a vessel is destined to serve for the vast majority of its life considered its designated route? I've said it before and I'll say it again - when I've used the word lie I've meant only not truthful/forthright when the truth is known - malice is a whole other can of worms that I've never chosen to bait my hooks with. And now for something completely differentWeren't we promised 3 new-build Northern Vessels by our current provincial government? So many questions, so little dissent
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Neil
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Posts: 7,177
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Post by Neil on Dec 12, 2006 19:43:18 GMT -8
We knew about engine problems on the MV Sonia - but no one knew that they had to change the engine - and yes it was kept very quiet - as the owners didn't want word out that the vessel had problems. So we knew about possible engine problems - but what there where - the owners were keeping it very quiet - then as soon as the sale went through - the warranty engine change became well known. So the engine man'f and the owners kept it very quiet - which doesn't surprise me one bit. Not something you want the general public / trade to know about - isn't it? Cascade- the company which had the Sonia re-engined was not the company that sold it to BC Ferries. It changed hands a number of times; do you really believe that none of those subsequent buyers knew of it's re-engining shortly after launch? That there were no work records, no engine inspections, no discrepancy between engine specs and the ship's launch date; that everything was completely 'hushed up' through several transactions? For gawdsake, even the Trinidad press apparently had the story of the engine meltdown- how much of a secret could it have been? You may not have heard of it, nor we here, but it's hard to believe that principal players in the industry would not have known of the ship's engine being replaced under warranty. tsawwassenterminal- Were you accusing me of defending the Lib-creds? Ouch, that hurts! I think you and I share a healthy disdain for the current regime in Victoria. Forgive me if I'm being thick here, but I just don't really see much connection between politics and the route designation or the 'build up' for the Sonia. She'll be used where she's needed the most, I guess, and surely it's to be expected that they're going to make her sound as good as possible. Perhaps I'm missing your point. If so, sorry.
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Post by Retrovision on Dec 12, 2006 23:10:10 GMT -8
...Perhaps I'm missing your point. If so, sorry. Perhaps - maybe my so-very discriminating taste when it comes to the battles I choose to fight has given any and all of my arguments so much weight that you are the only one who's missing my point.
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Kam
Voyager
Posts: 926
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Post by Kam on Dec 13, 2006 10:09:34 GMT -8
And now for something completely differentWeren't we promised 3 new-build Northern Vessels by our current provincial government? So many questions, so little dissent I wonder if they are talking about the new I class ship that was announced the other day to replace the Chilliwack? She does the discovery coast route during the summer months...
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Neil
Voyager
Posts: 7,177
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Post by Neil on Dec 13, 2006 17:06:35 GMT -8
Cascade- I'm aware of the often tangled web of ownership in the shipping world, and how it can disguise or confuse the history of legal title of a vessel.
The 'catastrophic engine failure' in the Sonia's early service was apparently reported in a Trinidad newspaper in 2005, well before the 'North went to her watery end. The fact the the news was known even in a relative journalistic backwater such as the Caribbean clearly shows that it was not 'hushed up', at least not successfully. The story did not just come to light after BC Ferries completed the Sonia purchase, as has been suggested, and obviously, if the media has the story, anyone in the know in the shipping industry could have it as well. Sorry, but I don't know how your reference to the 'Darin Affidavit' relates to this story.
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Post by Oceaneer7 on Dec 13, 2006 17:37:43 GMT -8
Wow Cascade Lloyds records are as you have stated private but anyone buying a ship demands to see all of the lloyds records dating back to the keel laying of the vessel.. they are all availble online at www.lr.org... i think they have moved ot to the fairplay site.. But that is besie the point if you have your lloyds number and the password all the records are there! Engine removal would definatly be there.. What the heck are you on about with the wastage! building in greece or any other yard in a warm humid climate is an issue but not a huge one as steel is quite slow to corrode away.. and expands/oxidises at a unbelivable rate. Some bulkheads that i have auidogauged look like hell but when you remove the corrosion and check the thickness they are almost prefect! Any classification socitey would audiogaige the hell out of a newbuild that has been sitting.. any potential problems logged in the class direct files. BC ferries would demand full review of all the class documents before buying a survey on the vessel Dylan Hildebrand Ch Engineer CMS
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Post by Scott on Dec 13, 2006 18:38:31 GMT -8
The information I have is that BC Ferries did not buy the ferry from the same company that had it built. Although it is confusing to me in tracing the history of ownership, it appears TTT (who ordered the ship) sold the ferry to Achieva Shipping in August 2005 who then sold it to Baleria earlier this year. The Achieva Shipping sale, I can understand it being perhaps linked to TTT since they are some sort of international shipping company and have little information about them anywhere. But the Baleria sale, that's a different country and a Spanish ferry operator, I don't see how they are linked to the Italian TTT Line. Am I missing something?
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Post by Scott on Dec 13, 2006 19:24:25 GMT -8
This page has the engine problem listed: www.faktaomfartyg.se/adamantios_korais_2004.htmIt's in Swedish, but he has his information up to date. I don't think that the engine problems were a secret. Like it's already been pointed out, it can't be kept a secret. Cascade, do you know what Equasis is? (www.equasis.org) I'm just wondering what it is compared to or in contrast to Lloyds. In any case, it has plenty of detail on the history of all? ships. The site does not seem to be working at the moment though.
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Post by Curtis on Dec 13, 2006 20:17:29 GMT -8
And now for something completely differentWeren't we promised 3 new-build Northern Vessels by our current provincial government? So many questions, so little dissent I wonder if they are talking about the new I class ship that was announced the other day to replace the Chilliwack? She does the discovery coast route during the summer months... New I Class Replacing the Chilliwack?? More like the Queen of Tsawwassen. I believe the Purchase of the Sonia cut three new vessels to two.
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Post by Retrovision on Dec 13, 2006 20:35:57 GMT -8
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