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Post by WettCoast on Oct 14, 2023 16:25:12 GMT -8
I truly think BC Ferries should just unveil the long term plan for route 30 if it’s going to become main route from Metro Vancouver to Nanaimo for BC Transit and TransLink can start the process of connection of bus service and ferry schedules. I hope this doesn't happen, and customer pressure beings back service on Route 2 with a third boat. The use of Route 30 led to an overall reduction in sailings, and is just a horrific route for transit. While I do hope BC Transit starts serving Duke Point, even when they do it'll be a terrible place to have to serve. Urban transit doesn't do great with low density areas with occasional very high volumes of passengers. I am with you on this Dane 100%. BCFS first took away route 2's Coastal class vessel. Then they took away the third vessel. I have to wonder if they have an agenda? The one thing that might make this 'agenda' more palatable is if the provincial government were to beef up transit connections in Nanaimo both to Hullo, and to Duke Point.
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Neil
Voyager
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Post by Neil on Oct 14, 2023 16:59:29 GMT -8
I hope this doesn't happen, and customer pressure beings back service on Route 2 with a third boat. The use of Route 30 led to an overall reduction in sailings, and is just a horrific route for transit. While I do hope BC Transit starts serving Duke Point, even when they do it'll be a terrible place to have to serve. Urban transit doesn't do great with low density areas with occasional very high volumes of passengers. I am with you on this Dane 100%. BCFS first took away route 2's Coastal class vessel. Then they took away the third vessel. I have to wonder if they have an agenda? The one thing that might make this 'agenda' more palatable is if the provincial government were to beef up transit connections in Nanaimo both to Hullo, and to Duke Point. I don't think the agenda is any more than trying to deal with the operational limitations of the Horseshoe Bay terminal, particularly with increased summer sailings. If they had been able to staff the second route 30 boat full time this past summer, there would have been no lost sailings, but unfortunately Nanaimo service did suffer. Didn't BC Transit try serving Duke Point for a brief time? Pretty sure somebody did. If BC Ferries is really serious about shifting traffic to route thirty, they're going to have to run more than eight round trips year round, and work with BC Transit to make Duke Point more viable for foot passengers. But that's actually a bigger issue, because there needs to be a broader transit plan connecting the east coast of Vancouver Island, not just city services. People need to know they can walk onto a ferry at Tsawwassen, get off at Duke Point, and get to Nanaimo, Courtenay, or Campbell River, ideally on one bus.
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Post by Blue Bus Fan on Oct 14, 2023 17:07:57 GMT -8
I truly think BC Ferries should just unveil the long term plan for route 30 if it’s going to become main route from Metro Vancouver to Nanaimo for BC Transit and TransLink can start the process of connection of bus service and ferry schedules. I hope this doesn't happen, and customer pressure beings back service on Route 2 with a third boat. The use of Route 30 led to an overall reduction in sailings, and is just a horrific route for transit. While I do hope BC Transit starts serving Duke Point, even when they do it'll be a terrible place to have to serve. Urban transit doesn't do great with low density areas with occasional very high volumes of passengers. I think future demand for routes 3 and 8 might BC Ferries require the elimination of route 2 all together because I don’t think Horseshoe Bay could get addition berth to handle all vessels coming in out of Horseshoe Bay. I think BC Ferries should really address capacity for Metro Vancouver to Nanaimo with capacity study sooner than later which I could show route 30 as better route due it having easier way of getting major services enhance because Tsawwassen and Duke Point have so much room to expand for operations. I don’t think Horseshoe Bay and Departure Bay terminals are easily expanded due community backlash if BC Ferries tries to expand the foot print of terminals so elimination of route 2 and major service enhance on route 30 will most likely best option for major shareholders and I could see BC Ferries trying to maintain 100 minutes sailing times from Metro Vancouver and Nanaimo even possibly going to down 90 minutes sailing time with faster sailing speeds of Coastal and Queen of Alberni. I don’t know if Queen of Cowichan, Queen of Oak Bay, Queen of Coquitlam and Queen of New Westminster could do route 30 under 2 hours but the replace vessels could go 23 knots.
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Neil
Voyager
Posts: 7,192
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Post by Neil on Oct 14, 2023 17:26:37 GMT -8
I hope this doesn't happen, and customer pressure beings back service on Route 2 with a third boat. The use of Route 30 led to an overall reduction in sailings, and is just a horrific route for transit. While I do hope BC Transit starts serving Duke Point, even when they do it'll be a terrible place to have to serve. Urban transit doesn't do great with low density areas with occasional very high volumes of passengers. I think future demand for routes 3 and 8 might BC Ferries require the elimination of route 2 all together because I don’t think Horseshoe Bay could get addition berth to handle all vessels coming in out of Horseshoe Bay. I think BC Ferries should really address capacity for Metro Vancouver to Nanaimo with capacity study sooner than later which I could show route 30 as better route due it having easier way of getting major services enhance because Tsawwassen and Duke Point have so much room to expand for operations. I don’t think Horseshoe Bay and Departure Bay terminals are easily expanded due community backlash if BC Ferries tries to expand the foot print of terminals so elimination of route 2 and major service enhance on route 30 will most likely best option for major shareholders and I could see BC Ferries trying to maintain 100 minutes sailing times from Metro Vancouver and Nanaimo even possibly going to down 90 minutes sailing time with faster sailing speeds of Coastal and Queen of Alberni. I don’t know if Queen of Cowichan, Queen of Oak Bay, Queen of Coquitlam and Queen of New Westminster could do route 30 under 2 hours but the replace vessels could go 23 knots. You're dreaming. Current vessels, when tide and wind are favorable, can do route 30 in 110 minutes. I don't think you realize how much fuel would be burned getting a 320 car ferry across the route in ninety minutes, even if the engines could produce such a speed, which I doubt. Let's keep things in the realm of possibility.
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Post by Blue Bus Fan on Oct 14, 2023 17:45:07 GMT -8
I think future demand for routes 3 and 8 might BC Ferries require the elimination of route 2 all together because I don’t think Horseshoe Bay could get addition berth to handle all vessels coming in out of Horseshoe Bay. I think BC Ferries should really address capacity for Metro Vancouver to Nanaimo with capacity study sooner than later which I could show route 30 as better route due it having easier way of getting major services enhance because Tsawwassen and Duke Point have so much room to expand for operations. I don’t think Horseshoe Bay and Departure Bay terminals are easily expanded due community backlash if BC Ferries tries to expand the foot print of terminals so elimination of route 2 and major service enhance on route 30 will most likely best option for major shareholders and I could see BC Ferries trying to maintain 100 minutes sailing times from Metro Vancouver and Nanaimo even possibly going to down 90 minutes sailing time with faster sailing speeds of Coastal and Queen of Alberni. I don’t know if Queen of Cowichan, Queen of Oak Bay, Queen of Coquitlam and Queen of New Westminster could do route 30 under 2 hours but the replace vessels could go 23 knots. You're dreaming. Current vessels, when tide and wind are favorable, can do route 30 in 110 minutes. I don't think you realize how much fuel would be burned getting a 320 car ferry across the route in ninety minutes, even if the engines could produce such a speed, which I doubt. Let's keep things in the realm of possibility. If Queen of Alberni could do Departure Bay to Tsawwassen in 2 hours maybe even 1 hours & 50 minutes, I think route 30 sailing could be reduce by 20 minutes because maybe the Captain was going for speed. I was even on Coastal that manage do route 30 in 1 hour & 40 minutes and this was April of 2022.
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Neil
Voyager
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Post by Neil on Oct 14, 2023 18:08:00 GMT -8
You're dreaming. Current vessels, when tide and wind are favorable, can do route 30 in 110 minutes. I don't think you realize how much fuel would be burned getting a 320 car ferry across the route in ninety minutes, even if the engines could produce such a speed, which I doubt. Let's keep things in the realm of possibility. If Queen of Alberni could do Departure Bay to Tsawwassen in 2 hours maybe even 1 hours & 50 minutes, I think route 30 sailing could be reduce by 20 minutes because maybe the Captain was going for speed. I was even on Coastal that manage do route 30 in 1 hour & 40 minutes and this was April of 2022. You're confusing maximum capacity/almost freak show performance with what can reasonably and economically be done over a regular service model. Engines incur much more wear and tear being pushed to the maximum, and fuel costs soar. Sorry, but you're not being realistic.
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Alec
Oiler (New Member)
Posts: 21
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Post by Alec on Oct 14, 2023 19:19:48 GMT -8
I hope this doesn't happen, and customer pressure beings back service on Route 2 with a third boat. The use of Route 30 led to an overall reduction in sailings, and is just a horrific route for transit. While I do hope BC Transit starts serving Duke Point, even when they do it'll be a terrible place to have to serve. Urban transit doesn't do great with low density areas with occasional very high volumes of passengers. I am with you on this Dane 100%. BCFS first took away route 2's Coastal class vessel. Then they took away the third vessel. I have to wonder if they have an agenda? The one thing that might make this 'agenda' more palatable is if the provincial government were to beef up transit connections in Nanaimo both to Hullo, and to Duke Point. I've seen talk on this forum that a potential long-term goal could be cutting route 2 entirely. It sort of makes sense, I guess; it seems kind of silly to have two routes to Nanaimo (three if you count Hullo) all from the Lower Mainland, and Tsawwassen is unquestionably more suited for future growth than Horseshoe Bay. At the same time, though, I would guess that a significant portion of route 2 traffic is bound for Whistler or even further north. Perhaps a significantly reduced sailing schedule (i.e. 2 round trips per day) with one smaller vessel could be used? If they were to cancel route 2, what if they took the vessels from that route and had a route 30A and 30B, one for truck traffic only that goes to Duke Point, and the other than continues on to Departure Bay in place of what would've been route 2 traffic before? I don't know how practical that would be, but just an idea.
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Post by Blue Bus Fan on Oct 14, 2023 19:24:03 GMT -8
If Queen of Alberni could do Departure Bay to Tsawwassen in 2 hours maybe even 1 hours & 50 minutes, I think route 30 sailing could be reduce by 20 minutes because maybe the Captain was going for speed. I was even on Coastal that manage do route 30 in 1 hour & 40 minutes and this was April of 2022. You're confusing maximum capacity/almost freak show performance with what can reasonably and economically be done over a regular service model. Engines incur much more wear and tear being pushed to the maximum, and fuel costs soar. Sorry, but you're not being realistic. If BC Ferries goes electric on Southern routes the fuel costs will be very little to worry about running vessels faster to keep the schedule. It’s seems like some captains are choosing to go faster than they should because some sailing are way shorter than scheduled this only seems to occur if they sailing delayed that could be made up.
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Post by Blue Bus Fan on Oct 14, 2023 19:25:32 GMT -8
I am with you on this Dane 100%. BCFS first took away route 2's Coastal class vessel. Then they took away the third vessel. I have to wonder if they have an agenda? The one thing that might make this 'agenda' more palatable is if the provincial government were to beef up transit connections in Nanaimo both to Hullo, and to Duke Point. I've seen talk on this forum that a potential long-term goal could be cutting route 2 entirely. It sort of makes sense, I guess; it seems kind of silly to have two routes to Nanaimo (three if you count Hullo) all from the Lower Mainland, and Tsawwassen is unquestionably more suited for future growth than Horseshoe Bay. At the same time, though, I would guess that a significant portion of route 2 traffic is bound for Whistler or even further north. Perhaps a significantly reduced sailing schedule (i.e. 2 round trips per day) with one smaller vessel could be used? If they were to cancel route 2, what if they took the vessels from that route and had a route 30A and 30B, one for truck traffic only that goes to Duke Point, and the other than continues on to Departure Bay in place of what would've been route 2 traffic before? I don't know how practical that would be, but just an idea. I think both routes route would go Duke Point because Departure Bay could be easily redeveloped it some else.
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Alec
Oiler (New Member)
Posts: 21
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Post by Alec on Oct 14, 2023 19:31:31 GMT -8
I've seen talk on this forum that a potential long-term goal could be cutting route 2 entirely. It sort of makes sense, I guess; it seems kind of silly to have two routes to Nanaimo (three if you count Hullo) all from the Lower Mainland, and Tsawwassen is unquestionably more suited for future growth than Horseshoe Bay. At the same time, though, I would guess that a significant portion of route 2 traffic is bound for Whistler or even further north. Perhaps a significantly reduced sailing schedule (i.e. 2 round trips per day) with one smaller vessel could be used? If they were to cancel route 2, what if they took the vessels from that route and had a route 30A and 30B, one for truck traffic only that goes to Duke Point, and the other than continues on to Departure Bay in place of what would've been route 2 traffic before? I don't know how practical that would be, but just an idea. I think both routes route would go Duke Point because Departure Bay could be easily redeveloped it some else. Duke Point isn't necessarily bad, but changes will need to be made. The reason I suggested that a passenger version of route 30 continue on to Departure Bay is because, currently, there's no way from Duke Point to downtown Nanaimo via public transit. Going directly into Nanaimo just seems more ideal for the travelling public. If transit options are developed, however, Duke Point would suffice. And, in line with what I posted earlier in this thread, Duke Point would need more berths, but that shouldn't be too difficult to do.
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Post by Ollie on Oct 14, 2023 19:31:48 GMT -8
I am with you on this Dane 100%. BCFS first took away route 2's Coastal class vessel. Then they took away the third vessel. I have to wonder if they have an agenda? The one thing that might make this 'agenda' more palatable is if the provincial government were to beef up transit connections in Nanaimo both to Hullo, and to Duke Point. I've seen talk on this forum that a potential long-term goal could be cutting route 2 entirely. It sort of makes sense, I guess; it seems kind of silly to have two routes to Nanaimo (three if you count Hullo) all from the Lower Mainland, and Tsawwassen is unquestionably more suited for future growth than Horseshoe Bay. At the same time, though, I would guess that a significant portion of route 2 traffic is bound for Whistler or even further north. Perhaps a significantly reduced sailing schedule (i.e. 2 round trips per day) with one smaller vessel could be used? If they were to cancel route 2, what if they took the vessels from that route and had a route 30A and 30B, one for truck traffic only that goes to Duke Point, and the other than continues on to Departure Bay in place of what would've been route 2 traffic before? I don't know how practical that would be, but just an idea. Horseshoe Bay doesn't really have any problems right now, I don't know why it would make sense to remove route 2. Why can't they just make route 30 better without removing or reducing any routes? Removing route 2 would also make it much more boring with only 1 option to Nanaimo from the lower mainland.
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Post by Blue Bus Fan on Oct 14, 2023 19:36:23 GMT -8
I've seen talk on this forum that a potential long-term goal could be cutting route 2 entirely. It sort of makes sense, I guess; it seems kind of silly to have two routes to Nanaimo (three if you count Hullo) all from the Lower Mainland, and Tsawwassen is unquestionably more suited for future growth than Horseshoe Bay. At the same time, though, I would guess that a significant portion of route 2 traffic is bound for Whistler or even further north. Perhaps a significantly reduced sailing schedule (i.e. 2 round trips per day) with one smaller vessel could be used? If they were to cancel route 2, what if they took the vessels from that route and had a route 30A and 30B, one for truck traffic only that goes to Duke Point, and the other than continues on to Departure Bay in place of what would've been route 2 traffic before? I don't know how practical that would be, but just an idea. Horseshoe Bay doesn't really have any problems right now, I don't know why it would make sense to remove route 2. Why can't they just make route 30 better without removing or reducing any routes? Removing route 2 would also make it much more boring with only 1 option to Nanaimo from the lower mainland. That doesn’t mean that with population grow and ferry usage grows the terminal may become choke hold for major bottlenecks for Bowen Island and Sunshine Coast routes which could cause major delays in future.
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Post by Blue Bus Fan on Oct 14, 2023 19:41:02 GMT -8
I think both routes route would go Duke Point because Departure Bay could be easily redeveloped it some else. Duke Point isn't necessarily bad, but changes will need to be made. The reason I suggested that a passenger version of route 30 continue on to Departure Bay is because, currently, there's no way from Duke Point to downtown Nanaimo via public transit. Going directly into Nanaimo just seems more ideal for the travelling public. If transit options are developed, however, Duke Point would suffice. And, in line with what I posted earlier in this thread, Duke Point would need more berths, but that shouldn't be too difficult to do. I think Duke Point would be closed for couple months for a major upgrade which includes new berths more parking. A bus route could easily be implemented at anytime that Regional District of Nanaimo wishes to do at anytime. If BC Ferries clear says Duke Point is going to only terminal in Nanaimo a bus routes while come to the terminal because during COVID lockdown happened Regional District of Nanaimo Transit ran a temporary route to Duke Point.
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Post by Dane on Oct 18, 2023 6:50:41 GMT -8
Route 1, 7am from Swartz Bay and 9am return cancelled due to crew availability. Haven't seen a major route sailing cancelled on the "full time" schedule in awhile!
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Post by Kahloke on Oct 18, 2023 7:01:44 GMT -8
Route 1, 7am from Swartz Bay and 9am return cancelled due to crew availability. Haven't seen a major route sailing cancelled on the "full time" schedule in awhile! Starting to look like WSF's daily alerts. Always anyone's guess as to which sailings on any given route are cancelled due to crew availability. I lucked out on Saturday when it was Samish's morning sailings that were cancelled and not Kaleetan's.
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Post by Blue Bus Fan on Oct 18, 2023 15:37:58 GMT -8
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Post by Blue Bus Fan on Oct 19, 2023 19:20:29 GMT -8
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Post by Ollie on Oct 24, 2023 18:24:53 GMT -8
BC Ferries service notices for Sturdies Bay:
"Due to adverse weather and unsafe docking conditions at Sturdies Bay (Galiano Island), the Salish Eagle was unable to stop as scheduled at Sturdies Bay this evening. The 5:45 pm departure from Sturdies Bay to Tsawwasen has been cancelled."
Another service notice:
"Due to adverse weather and unsafe docking conditions at Sturdies Bay (Galiano Island), the following Queen of Cumberland sailings have been cancelled for today, Tuesday October 24:
6:05 pm departing Sturdies Bay"
I have never seen a service notice like this before, why only Sturdies Bay?
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Neil
Voyager
Posts: 7,192
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Post by Neil on Oct 24, 2023 19:30:49 GMT -8
BC Ferries service notices for Sturdies Bay:
"Due to adverse weather and unsafe docking conditions at Sturdies Bay (Galiano Island), the Salish Eagle was unable to stop as scheduled at Sturdies Bay this evening. The 5:45 pm departure from Sturdies Bay to Tsawwasen has been cancelled."
Another service notice:
"Due to adverse weather and unsafe docking conditions at Sturdies Bay (Galiano Island), the following Queen of Cumberland sailings have been cancelled for today, Tuesday October 24:
6:05 pm departing Sturdies Bay"
I have never seen a service notice like this before, why only Sturdies Bay?
Environment Canada is reporting winds at Saturna ENE 58k gusting to 76k. This cancellation is not all that rare. Sturdies is pretty exposed for docking purposes.
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Post by WettCoast on Oct 24, 2023 19:38:07 GMT -8
BC Ferries service notices for Sturdies Bay:
"Due to adverse weather and unsafe docking conditions at Sturdies Bay (Galiano Island), the Salish Eagle was unable to stop as scheduled at Sturdies Bay this evening. The 5:45 pm departure from Sturdies Bay to Tsawwasen has been cancelled."
Another service notice:
"Due to adverse weather and unsafe docking conditions at Sturdies Bay (Galiano Island), the following Queen of Cumberland sailings have been cancelled for today, Tuesday October 24:
6:05 pm departing Sturdies Bay"
I have never seen a service notice like this before, why only Sturdies Bay?
Environment Canada is reporting winds at Saturna ENE 58k gusting to 76k. This cancellation is not all that rare. Sturdies is pretty exposed for docking purposes. There are power outages in 53 locations around BC at the moment, mostly in the south coast area. Wind is the issue I am fairly certain.
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Post by Ferryman on Oct 25, 2023 1:18:35 GMT -8
BC Ferries service notices for Sturdies Bay:
"Due to adverse weather and unsafe docking conditions at Sturdies Bay (Galiano Island), the Salish Eagle was unable to stop as scheduled at Sturdies Bay this evening. The 5:45 pm departure from Sturdies Bay to Tsawwasen has been cancelled."
Another service notice:
"Due to adverse weather and unsafe docking conditions at Sturdies Bay (Galiano Island), the following Queen of Cumberland sailings have been cancelled for today, Tuesday October 24:
6:05 pm departing Sturdies Bay"
I have never seen a service notice like this before, why only Sturdies Bay?
Sturdies Bay is prone to North Easterly winds, with both winds and sea state. Even if the vessel has a tense landing, vehicle deck operations are risky with the ship pitching up and down in the swells. The cancelled Sturdies Bay stops happens a couple of times throughout every winter season. Back in the old days, they had the option to sail to Montague Harbour instead, leaving Sturdies Bay closed until the weather got better
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Post by WettCoast on Oct 25, 2023 6:16:24 GMT -8
BC Ferries service notices for Sturdies Bay:
"Due to adverse weather and unsafe docking conditions at Sturdies Bay (Galiano Island), the Salish Eagle was unable to stop as scheduled at Sturdies Bay this evening. The 5:45 pm departure from Sturdies Bay to Tsawwasen has been cancelled."
Another service notice:
"Due to adverse weather and unsafe docking conditions at Sturdies Bay (Galiano Island), the following Queen of Cumberland sailings have been cancelled for today, Tuesday October 24:
6:05 pm departing Sturdies Bay"
I have never seen a service notice like this before, why only Sturdies Bay?
Sturdies Bay is prone to North Easterly winds, with both winds and sea state. Even if the vessel has a tense landing, vehicle deck operations are risky with the ship pitching up and down in the swells. The cancelled Sturdies Bay stops happens a couple of times throughout every winter season. Back in the old days, they had the option to sail to Montague Harbour instead, leaving Sturdies Bay closed until the weather got better Way back in the 1960’s the Queen of Sidney ran aground while trying to dock in Sturdies Bay in the same sort of weather/sea conditions. It was not a serious grounding. My brother, David (Mr DOT), was on board as a crew member. I will see if I can locate some information on that grounding.
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Post by Blue Bus Fan on Oct 25, 2023 17:09:24 GMT -8
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Neil
Voyager
Posts: 7,192
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Post by Neil on Oct 25, 2023 20:26:48 GMT -8
With the service notice expiring, your post doesn't tell us much... what was going on?
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Post by Blue Bus Fan on Oct 25, 2023 20:35:12 GMT -8
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