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Post by Dane on Feb 3, 2006 16:45:29 GMT -8
Some background - Everyday on route 2, crews are paid 1/2 hour overtime as part of their normal shift b/c they work an 8.5 hour day - Route 3 can serve its demand with in the allotted time more times than not - Route 2 has chronic delays during the summer, and as such has been a route privvy to many experiments (24 hour service, really early sailings, 130 minute turn time etc) Well the newest gossip is that there's a desire to consolidate Route 2 and 3 vessels, creating an "L". So The Queen of Cowichan, for example, would go Naniamo - HSB HSB - Lngd'l Lngd'l - HSB HSB - Naniamo as a shift Supposedly the belief is this would cut down on delays, and a new contract w/o that automatic OT could be given to all route 2/3 employees. I doubt this will happen, but they're still thinkin' away at BCFS  |
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Doug
Voyager 
Lurking within...the car deck.
Posts: 2,213
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Post by Doug on Feb 3, 2006 16:53:44 GMT -8
They should do that with the extra vessel out of Langdale in the future, but not with all ships. Where did you hear this information?
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Post by Dane on Feb 3, 2006 17:06:03 GMT -8
They should do that with the extra vessel out of Langdale in the future, but not with all ships. Where did you hear this information? Route 2 Captain.... they used to do it with the Horseshoe Bay #2 vessel when I was younger (like 7-10 years old).. The Queen of Surrey and Oak Bay ran Route 2 The Queen of Cowichan ran Route 3 The Queen of Coquitlam ussually ran HSB-Nan-HSB-Lang-HSB-Nan-HSB The vessel running to Bowen, in the summers, would moor in Snug Cove and the crew would water taxi back. Remnants of this operating method can be seen in the current Bowen schedule, where there is one more HSB departure than Bowen departure, which obviously doesn't make sense. |
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Koastal Karl
Voyager
Been on every BC Ferry now!!!!!
Posts: 7,747
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Post by Koastal Karl on Feb 3, 2006 17:51:40 GMT -8
yeah and I have always wondered why that is with the Bowen schedule.
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Post by Low Light Mike on Feb 3, 2006 18:16:59 GMT -8
Back in my childhood, there was some kind of triange-route operating between Dep.Bay, HorseShoeBay, and Langdale.
When I went to my summer "Cub Camp" (at Salvation Army's Camp Sunrise - located next door to Langdale ferry terminal), we went from Nanaimo to Langdale on 1 ferry, which stopped at Horseshoe Bay. Us Nanaimo Cubs were allowed to stay on the Ferry when it stopped at HorseshoeBay, as it continued on to Langdale.
My memory is good, but not good enough to tell you if that was a special summer route, or the regular route. This would have been the summer of 1977 & 1978. I think the ferry would have been something like the Nanaimo or Burnaby.
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Post by Dane on Feb 3, 2006 18:18:56 GMT -8
When I went to my summer "Cub Camp" (at Salvation Army's Camp Sunrise - located next door to Langdale ferry terminal), we went from Nanaimo to Langdale on 1 ferry, which stopped at Horseshoe Bay. Us Nanaimo Cubs were allowed to stay on the Ferry when it stopped at HorseshoeBay, as it continued on to Langdale. Yeah they still did that with the Horseshoe Bay #2 until at least 9 years ago. Since the ship would berth at HSB but then turn into a Rt 3 vessel, they'd play an announcement and you could just swing your car around, depending on where you were parked to continue on. Generally I believe the Queen of Coquitlam held this assignment, at least in the ladder years. |
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Post by tyty on Feb 19, 2006 22:20:20 GMT -8
I'm not sure it would be wise to do this with ALL of the route 2/3 vessels. The more interlining you have, the more people are affected by some kind of delay.
I did wonder last summer whether the Queen of Esquimalt was being as productive as she could be running exclusively on route 3 as a supplementary vessel to the Queen of Surrey.
Perhaps #2 at Langdale and the third vessel on route 2 could do these interlined trips but in my opinion the Queen of Coquitlam should be kept exclusively on route 3 and Queens of Oak Bay and Cowichan kept exclusively on route 2.
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Post by hergfest on Feb 19, 2006 23:22:15 GMT -8
They HAD to do the triangle route this summer when the Cow had her clutch problems, and it caused major backups on both routes. Plus when the Super C's arrive, BC Ferries will have the fourth C-Class (probably the Cow) as the extra ship on Route 3.
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Post by Dane on Feb 19, 2006 23:25:27 GMT -8
They HAD to do the triangle route this summer when the Cow had her clutch problems, and it caused major backups on both routes. Plus when the Super C's arrive, BC Ferries will have the fourth C-Class (probably the Cow) as the extra ship on Route 3. I assume some day in the somewhat near future (2010ish) that Route 2 will require a 4th vessel. I hope that comes to fruitation, the waits are crossing the line into the unrealisticly long catagory, plus Route 2 is part of the TransCanada highway. |
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Post by tyty on Feb 20, 2006 0:52:44 GMT -8
The new Super C–class vessels are planned to operate on both routes 1 and 2. Does anyone know how they plan to allocate the three of them and the existing Cs?
The acquisition of the Super Cs will allow BC Ferries to retire the Queen of Vancouver, Queen of Esquimalt, and Queen of Saanich; presumably this would occur after the 2010 Olympics. But then what?
If it were up to me, the allocation would be something like this:
Route 1 - SOBC + SOVI + a new Super C + an existing C
Route 2 - Two new Super Cs + an existing C
Route 3 - Two existing Cs
Other thoughts? (or actual knowledge of BCF's plans in this regard?)
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Post by Mac Write on Feb 20, 2006 1:18:53 GMT -8
Route 1 - Spirits + 2 Super C's
Route 2 - 1 Super C + 2 C's
Route 3 - Two C's
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Post by Dane on Feb 20, 2006 1:23:22 GMT -8
Route 1 - SOBC + SOVI + a new Super C + an existing C Route 2 - Two new Super Cs + an existing C Route 3 - Two existing Cs Thats more or less what it'll look like according to BCFS's latest informal 'announcements'. Really it's only the third one thats up for question, does it go to Route 1/2 as an aux or Route 3 as a regular? |
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Post by Balfour on Feb 27, 2006 22:29:37 GMT -8
Here's a schedule I made up if 4 C's and the Esquimalt did this "L"route this coming summer.
Queen of Cowichan:
Leave Dep Bay: 6:30AM
Arrive HSB: 8AM
Leave HSB: 8:30AM
Arrive Langdale: 9:10AM
Leave Langdale: 9:40AM
Arrive HSB: 10:20AM
Leave HSB:11:00AM
Arrive Dep Bay: 12:30PM.
Leave Dep Bay: 1:00PM
Arrv HSB: 2:30PM
Leave HSB: 3:00PM
Arrv Langdale: 3:40PM
Leave Langdale: 4:10PM
Arrv HSB: 4:50PM
Leave HSB: 5:30PM
Arrv Dep Bay: 7:00PM
Leave: Dep Bay: 7:30PM
Arrv HSB: 9:00PM
Leave HSB: 9:30PM
Arrv Dep Bay: 11:00PM
Queen of Oak Bay:
Leave HSB: 6:30AM
Arrv Dep: 8:00AM
Leave Dep Bay: 8:30AM
Arrv HSB: 10:00AM
Leave HSB: 10:30AM
Arrv Langdale: 11:10AM
Leave Landale 11:50AM
Arrv HSB: 12:30PM
Leave HSB: 1:00PM
Arrv Dep Bay: 2:30PM
Leave Dep Bay: 3:00PM
Arrv HSB: 4:30PM
Leave HSB: 5:00PM
Arrv Langdale: 5:40PM
Leave Langdale: 6:10PM
Arrv HSB: 6:50PM
Leave HSB: 7:30PM
Arrv Dep Bay: 9:00PM
Leave Dep Bay: 9:30PM
Arrv HSB: 11:00PM
Queen of Coquitlam:
Leave Langdale: 6:20AM
Arrv HSB: 7:00AM
Leave HSB: 7:30AM
Arrv Dep Bay: 9:00AM
Leave Dep Bay: 9:30AM
Arrv HSB: 11:00 AM
Leave HSB: 11:30AM
Arrv Langdale: 12:10PM
Leave Langdale: 12:50PM
Arrv HSB: 1:30PM
Leave HSB: 2:00PM
Arrv Dep Bay: 3:30PM
Leave Dep Bay: 4:00PM
Arrv HSB: 5:30 PM
Leave HSB: 6:00PM
Arrv Langdale: 6:40PM
Leave Langdale: 7:10PM
Arrv HSB: 7:50PM
Leave HSB: 8:30PM
Arrv Dep Bay: 10:00PM
Leave Dep Bay: 10:30 PM
Arrv HSB: 12:00AM
Leave HSB: 12:30AM
Arrv Langdale: 1:10AM
Queen of Surrey:
Leave Dep Bay: 7:30AM
Arrv HSB: 9:00AM
Leave HSB: 9:30AM
Arrv Langdale: 10:10AM
Leave Langdale: 10:40AM
Arrv HSB: 11:20AM
Leave HSB: 12:00PM
Arrv Dep Bay: 1:30PM
Leave Dep Bay: 2:00PM
Arrv HSB: 3:30PM
Leave HSB: 4:00PM
Arrv Langdale: 4:40PM
Leave Langdale: 5:10PM
Arrv HSB: 5:50PM
Leave HSB: 6:30PM
Arrv Dep Bay: 8:00PM
Leave Dep Bay: 8:30PM
Arrv HSB: 10:00PM
Leave HSB: 10:30PM
Arrv Dep Bay: 12:00AM
Queen of Esquimalt
Leave HSB: 6:20AM
Arrv Langdale: 7:10AM
Leave Langdale: 7:40AM
Arrv HSB: 8:30AM
Leave HSB: 9:00AM
Arrv Dep Bay: 10:50AM
Leave Dep Bay: 11:30AM
Arrv HSB: 1:20PM
Leave HSB: 1:50PM
Arrv Langdale: 2:40PM
Leave Langdale: 3:10PM
Arrv HSB: 4:00PM
Leave HSB: 4:30PM
Arrv Dep Bay: 6:20PM
Leave Dep Bay: 7:00PM
Arrv HSB: 8:50PM
Leave HSB: 9:30PM
Arrv Langdale: 10:20PM
After figuring out the new schedule I found that Route 2 would see 14 sailings per day from each terminal, and Route 3 would see 12 sailings from each terminal.
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Post by Ferryman on Feb 27, 2006 22:38:43 GMT -8
That's actually a pretty genious way of doing it. Although I don't know if it would be really necessary to have the Esquimalt as well. But 4 C's could easily handle both of the routes at the same time no problem though, and then maybe have the Esquimalt as a backup maybe?
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Post by Balfour on Feb 27, 2006 22:41:12 GMT -8
I also went and did the schedule route by route. There's frequency of an hour at times with this, but there are gaps 1-2 times per day in the schedule. Although I think it's better than what we have now.
Translink uses this "L" shaped route idea on certain routes in NV. The Grouse Mountain Routes (232, 236) switch around all the time.
"232 Grouse Mountain" becomes "236 Lonsdale Quay" when it leaves Grouse and vice-versa.
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Post by Dane on Feb 27, 2006 22:50:51 GMT -8
Wow thats very impressive Jordan. It looks good, too good. They'll never do it LOL!
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Post by Balfour on Feb 28, 2006 8:48:53 GMT -8
I even figured out the schedule that could be put into the brochures if this was done.
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Post by ferryguy on Feb 28, 2006 9:31:09 GMT -8
One problem is the Langdale route requires significantly less crew than the Nanaimo run. This schedule would therefore boost costs dramaticlly. The Langdale boat runs with 7 less crew. That would mean on two ships running all ummer with 3 watchs per ship a cost of about:
7 crew 3500 a month
6 watchs X 7 = 147 000 per month.
Thats a lot of sunshine breakfasts to sell.
These ideas are looked at but you have to factor everying in. The 2nd Langdale ship that usually does the triangle run runs on a reduced license on Route 2 meaning they have to shortload the boat quite often.
Ferryguy
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Post by ferryguy on Feb 28, 2006 9:32:26 GMT -8
As well only the deck and ER crew get the overtime hours. The rest of the crew are paid for the 8 hour day
Ferryguy
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Post by Mike C on Feb 28, 2006 11:34:27 GMT -8
Here's a schedule I made up if 4 C's and the Esquimalt did this "L"route this coming summer. Queen of Cowichan: Leave Dep Bay: 6:30AM Arrive HSB: 8AM Leave HSB: 8:30AM Arrive Langdale: 9:10AM Leave Langdale: 9:40AM Arrive HSB: 10:20AM Leave HSB:11:00AM Arrive Dep Bay: 12:30PM. Leave Dep Bay: 1:00PM Arrv HSB: 2:30PM Leave HSB: 3:00PM Arrv Langdale: 3:40PM Leave Langdale: 4:10PM Arrv HSB: 4:50PM Leave HSB: 5:30PM Arrv Dep Bay: 7:00PM Leave: Dep Bay: 7:30PM Arrv HSB: 9:00PM Leave HSB: 9:30PM Arrv Dep Bay: 11:00PM Queen of Oak Bay: Leave HSB: 6:30AM Arrv Dep: 8:00AM Leave Dep Bay: 8:30AM Arrv HSB: 10:00AM Leave HSB: 10:30AM Arrv Langdale: 11:10AM Leave Landale 11:50AM Arrv HSB: 12:30PM Leave HSB: 1:00PM Arrv Dep Bay: 2:30PM Leave Dep Bay: 3:00PM Arrv HSB: 4:30PM Leave HSB: 5:00PM Arrv Langdale: 5:40PM Leave Langdale: 6:10PM Arrv HSB: 6:50PM Leave HSB: 7:30PM Arrv Dep Bay: 9:00PM Leave Dep Bay: 9:30PM Arrv HSB: 11:00PM Queen of Coquitlam: Leave Langdale: 6:20AM Arrv HSB: 7:00AM Leave HSB: 7:30AM Arrv Dep Bay: 9:00AM Leave Dep Bay: 9:30AM Arrv HSB: 11:00 AM Leave HSB: 11:30AM Arrv Langdale: 12:10PM Leave Langdale: 12:50PM Arrv HSB: 1:30PM Leave HSB: 2:00PM Arrv Dep Bay: 3:30PM Leave Dep Bay: 4:00PM Arrv HSB: 5:30 PM Leave HSB: 6:00PM Arrv Langdale: 6:40PM Leave Langdale: 7:10PM Arrv HSB: 7:50PM Leave HSB: 8:30PM Arrv Dep Bay: 10:00PM Leave Dep Bay: 10:30 PM Arrv HSB: 12:00AM Leave HSB: 12:30AM Arrv Langdale: 1:10AM Queen of Surrey: Leave Dep Bay: 7:30AM Arrv HSB: 9:00AM Leave HSB: 9:30AM Arrv Langdale: 10:10AM Leave Langdale: 10:40AM Arrv HSB: 11:20AM Leave HSB: 12:00PM Arrv Dep Bay: 1:30PM Leave Dep Bay: 2:00PM Arrv HSB: 3:30PM Leave HSB: 4:00PM Arrv Langdale: 4:40PM Leave Langdale: 5:10PM Arrv HSB: 5:50PM Leave HSB: 6:30PM Arrv Dep Bay: 8:00PM Leave Dep Bay: 8:30PM Arrv HSB: 10:00PM Leave HSB: 10:30PM Arrv Dep Bay: 12:00AM Queen of Esquimalt Leave HSB: 6:20AM Arrv Langdale: 7:10AM Leave Langdale: 7:40AM Arrv HSB: 8:30AM Leave HSB: 9:00AM Arrv Dep Bay: 10:50AM Leave Dep Bay: 11:30AM Arrv HSB: 1:20PM Leave HSB: 1:50PM Arrv Langdale: 2:40PM Leave Langdale: 3:10PM Arrv HSB: 4:00PM Leave HSB: 4:30PM Arrv Dep Bay: 6:20PM Leave Dep Bay: 7:00PM Arrv HSB: 8:50PM Leave HSB: 9:30PM Arrv Langdale: 10:20PM After figuring out the new schedule I found that Route 2 would see 14 sailings per day from each terminal, and Route 3 would see 12 sailings from each terminal. It looks like someone had a lot of spare time on their hands??!! |
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Post by Balfour on Feb 28, 2006 11:53:52 GMT -8
I got bored, and I decided to use my brain for once |
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Post by Dane on Feb 28, 2006 16:01:50 GMT -8
As well only the deck and ER crew get the overtime hours. The rest of the crew are paid for the 8 hour day Ferryguy I thought the full slate got the 1/2 HT wage... Do you know how Route 30 works, like do they make a few hours of OT every shift? The Langdale ship generally runs with an A or B ticket in the summer season, they sometimes pull people out of the HSB pool to do it (and then get to pay associated hotel costs etc :  |
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Post by ferryguy on Feb 28, 2006 17:12:58 GMT -8
Route 30 10 hour day 5 % differential and 5 days on 5 days off
Route 2 8 hour day 8 days on four days off
A license on Route 3 crew 27
A License on Route 2 Crew 34 Less if ship has had mid life conversion
They do not often have to pull crew from HSB
ferryguy
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Post by Dane on Feb 28, 2006 22:38:50 GMT -8
Route 30 10 hour day 5 % differential and 5 days on 5 days off Route 2 8 hour day 8 days on four days off A license on Route 3 crew 27 A License on Route 2 Crew 34 Less if ship has had mid life conversion They do not often have to pull crew from HSB ferryguy Wouldnt a A license on all the ships be the same... isn't it based on the ship and its sailing areas (which is the same for all major BCFS vessels) rather than its specific route. Barring the Esquimalt on Route 3, all the "normal" Cs will be midlife by next summer on 2 & 3 |
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