Neil
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Post by Neil on Apr 10, 2006 12:58:34 GMT -8
I know the topic of potential new routes has been brought up often, and I don't want to rile any of the veteran mambers of this forum by opening up a pandora's box of goofy speculation about pie-in-the-sky sarvice expansion. I was thinking, though, that BC Ferries current status as a sort of phoney baloney, stand alone, pas as you go 'private' corporation, probably precludes the possibility of them ever initiating new services, given that everything they do now has to have a very firm financial 'reality'. Does anyone know if there is any mechanism in their charter, or in the parent ferries commission, for examining, say, an application by a group of island residents for a new service? Is there any provision that anyone has seen, in their long term business plan, for any examination of future routes? This might be a moot point, as I'm not sure that there are any areas on the coast which might be requiring ferry service in the near future, but if there are, I really doubt that BC Ferries, under it's current structure, could supply it. There is an interesting difference between land- based transportation planning, and marine, in that on land we have all sorts of planned or possible bridges, ring roads, highway connections, and rapid transit, whereas on water you have this stifling, bottom line fixation on making BC Ferries 'pay it's own way', which really seems to limit any possibilities for getting people around our coast more efficiently. Anyway, if anyone has read anything where BC Ferries or the government has addressed this issue, maybe you could share it. I'm sure that the last thing David Hahn wants to do is start building car ferry docks on Gambier or Nootka Island unless he was threatened with bamboo shoots under the fingernails.
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Post by Shane on Apr 10, 2006 14:47:35 GMT -8
Nootka Island doesn't even have cars on it. A tug/barge ferry service would be good for Gambier Island, mabye Keats too.
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Post by Dane on Apr 10, 2006 19:24:18 GMT -8
The issue is -> Where is there demand to merrit a new route? When BC Ferries took over a lot of the proposals were passenger only high speed type routes that they said they were interested in getting into. I don't think the idea, on the face of it, has died but the fiscal realities of the Corporation/Private Company are more apparent than ever to those running the company.
Basically BCFS, right now, has no money between upgrades and new vessel orders.
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Doug
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Post by Doug on Apr 11, 2006 16:44:32 GMT -8
BC Ferries has previously expressed an interest in a likely passenger-only service between Vancouver Airport and Nanaimo as well to Victoria. I don't know if they are working on that or not though....
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Neil
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Post by Neil on Apr 11, 2006 20:52:24 GMT -8
That's interesting. You mean they were actually considering operating it themselves? I wonder if there could ever be a parallel anywhere in BC to the situation on Prince of Wales Island in Alaska, where island residents expressed dissatisfaction with the service they were getting from Alaska State Ferries, and local municipal government subsequently set up their own ferry system, which as we know was just increased from one ship to two. Alaska State Ferries must have told them they had no plans to ever give them a satisfactory level of service. Seems kind of pointless, though; surely taxpayers end up paying one way or another. If for some reason, Kitimat residents said they wanted a connection to Vancouver Island, and BC Ferries said no, I wonder what they chances would be of them getting provincial aid to start their own service, as happened in Alaska. (Correct me if I'm wrong).
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Doug
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Post by Doug on Apr 11, 2006 21:12:43 GMT -8
I doubt Kitimat will ever be interested in a Vancouver Island service...I'm sure the road is in fairly good shape. If it was a rough gravel road that just couldn't be improved, maybe, but besides that I don't think the provincial government would even think about a ferry.
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Doug
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Post by Doug on Apr 11, 2006 21:13:08 GMT -8
That's interesting. You mean they were actually considering operating it themselves? yes
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Post by WettCoast on Apr 11, 2006 22:24:06 GMT -8
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Post by tyty on Apr 11, 2006 22:47:04 GMT -8
I doubt Kitimat will ever be interested in a Vancouver Island service...I'm sure the road is in fairly good shape. No kidding it's in good shape! It was repaved the last two summers (the southern half out of Kitimat in 2004, the northern half into Terrace in 2005). During the Northern Route Strategy consultations in 2004, BC Ferries officials visited Kitimat to guage support for a possible ferry terminal there. In the report on those discussions, BC Ferries noted the primary long term objective of the community of Kitimat is to secure a ferry terminal that could replace Prince Rupert as a terminus for the Inside Passage. While "such a proposal was mooted twenty or more years ago," it doesn't seem so far-fetched now, at least not to those in the Terrace-Kitimat area. Community leaders believe there is merit is pursuing this idea as a public-private partnership with the Haisla First Nation and others. BC Ferries made it clear that it had no plans to pursue such an initiative and that if such an initiative were pursued by others it would have to be at no cost to BCF. Community representatives suggested some experimental trips to Kitimat once or twice a season to test market response. The only thing I wonder about is how Kitimat is a private port... how that would work finding space for a dock and such. I'm sure something could be worked out with Alcan, etc. As wetcoastkidjst points out, starting the Inside Passage trip from Kitimat would shave about 90 minutes off the total time of the voyage. What's even better is that for anyone travelling across northern B.C. on Highway 16, the trip to the ferry would be shorter - Kitimat is only 60 km from Terrace whereas Prince Rupert is nearly 150 km. But yes, Kitimat does indeed have a relatively small population compared to Prince Rupert. The terminal there would still be need for the Queen Charlotte Islands ferry service, so why have two BC Ferries terminals up there? It's an idea I find interesting, that's for sure.
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Post by Low Light Mike on Apr 12, 2006 6:15:40 GMT -8
re Kitimat as a ferry terminal site:
One thing about Prince Rupert being a more suitable site, is the connections possibilities with both Haida-Gwaii service, and also the AMHS ferries.
Rupert becomes a ferry-exchange site, a stop-over before continuing north or west.
Kitimat wouldn't have that....and it's unlikely that BCFS would want 2 north-coast terminals......and impractical to suggest that the ferry could call in at Kitimat on the way to Rupert.
But the idea of a terminal at Kitimat is interesting.....but I don't think it will happen. But I don't live there, so that's just my outsider's opinion....
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Neil
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Post by Neil on Apr 12, 2006 8:36:14 GMT -8
I wasn't necessarily suggesting that Kitimat was the most lkely option for a new service, so much as just using it as an example of a community that might request new service, and wondering how BC Ferries might respond. Cascade's points about floating structures and a Vancouver - Prince Rupert cruise ferry are interesting, although I suspect that BC Ferries' fixation on bottom line, utilitarian service would keep it from ever trying something as 'entrepreneurial' as a cruise ferry from Vancouver. Maybe I'm too pessimistic, but I really think that the financial straitjacket BC Ferries finds itself in will really limit the development of marine transportation links which could make the BC coast even more special than it already is.
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Post by WettCoast on Apr 12, 2006 15:32:31 GMT -8
Consider it this way...
The North Coast has one mainland ferry terminal. Salt Spring Island has three.
Terminals at both Kitimat and Rupert are not such a ridiculous idea.
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Post by Gunther on Apr 13, 2006 11:47:36 GMT -8
All 3 Terminals have a purpose on Saltspring, Vesuvious is not closing, because it is a commuter route and there is no other terminal close enough to Crofton, Fulford can't be expanded (unless it's out into the water) and Long Harbour is too far from Victoria.
As for Kitimat, it doesn't make sense, it would take longer to go from PH->Kit->PR then it would to go PH->PR->Kit. It would either a) Be under used, making the extra time to go to it a poor usage of time or b) overused, making PR underused. From a business point of view it would diminish returns, although there would have to be a study to confirm that.
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Neil
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Post by Neil on Apr 13, 2006 22:00:36 GMT -8
Actually, BC Ferries didn't inherit the Long Harbour terminal- they built it. Ferries had traditionally put into Ganges or Fulford if they were coming from the mainland or the Swartz Bay- Victoria area. The opening up of the Gulf Islands, and the considerable population growth there, is pretty much solely attributable to the existence of regular, heavily subsidised government ferry service. I suppose the overall merits of that development are debatable. If BC Ferries had it in it's mandate to make the central coast more accessible with considerably increased ferry service, no doubt that area would boom as well, on the tourist potential alone. I'm not aware of any planning that's been done on that area's future, or how ferry service figures in that, but I imagine even the first nations people who live there, and would stand to benefit from better service, are probably divided about how desirable better connections would be.
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