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Post by gordon on Oct 13, 2008 12:20:19 GMT -8
By What percentage have the fares on the 3 major routes increased since 03
How close is Rout#3 to breaking even?
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Neil
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Post by Neil on Oct 13, 2008 21:25:00 GMT -8
Post-summer update from one affected island:
Most businesses on Hornby reported a decrease in activity from last summer, with many down significantly, due to a smaller number of visitors. The Co-op is examining ways to cut back expenses and remain viable. Jan's Cafe, Hornby's only stand alone indoor eatery, closed early, not to re-open until May, and with the pub closed most of the time, most days you cannot now buy a meal on the island.
From the standpoint of someone looking for a peaceful week long retreat in early October, the island was wonderfully quiet, but taking into account the broader implications of so few people around, and seemingly fewer kids every year, the peacefulness was disconcerting.
Fares aren't the only factor in declining visitor numbers, but the decline is unarguable, and BC Ferries' fares policies are having a profoundly negative effect on the community.
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Post by Low Light Mike on Oct 17, 2008 9:44:04 GMT -8
....and here's something I wasn't expecting yet. www.canada.com/nanaimodailynews/news/story.html?id=ef1b94b9-ce9e-46b0-aea9-fecec7db395eB.C. Ferries will halve surcharge Canwest News Service Friday, October 17, 2008 People riding B.C. Ferries will get a bit of relief next month. The company announced Thursday that it will cut its fuel surcharge in half by Nov. 3 to reflect dropping oil prices. B.C. Ferries' president David Hahn said the company has been in talks with B.C. Ferry Commissioner Martin Crilly for several weeks about lowering the surcharge. Crilly approved a 50% reduction Thursday, but Hahn said it will take two weeks for the company's aging computer system to implement the change. "If we can do it sooner, I'm going to do it," he said. "It's just that's the way the systems are here. They're, like everything else, a little bit old." Hahn said it will only be a partial reduction at first, because the company was late imposing the surcharge, and racked up a deficit when fuel prices were high. "We were late going in with this, and we're going to be late coming back out," he said. B.C. Ferries imposed a 10.3% surcharge on major routes beginning Aug. 1. Fares increased 17.6% on 18 minor routes. Hahn said B.C. Ferries will hold further discussions with Crilly over the next 30 days. "Hopefully, we'll start working out the timing on when we can get rid of the other 50%," he said. © The Daily News (Nanaimo) 2008 =========================
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Post by gordon on Oct 17, 2008 10:38:49 GMT -8
There have been 2 fuel surcharges since early spring.
Is this reduction 1/2 of the Aug 1st surcharge or 1/2 the total amount?
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D'Elete BC in NJ
Voyager
Dispensing gallons of useless information daily...
Posts: 1,671
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Post by D'Elete BC in NJ on Oct 17, 2008 11:22:14 GMT -8
....and here's something I wasn't expecting yet. www.canada.com/nanaimodailynews/news/story.html?id=ef1b94b9-ce9e-46b0-aea9-fecec7db395eB.C. Ferries will halve surcharge Canwest News Service Friday, October 17, 2008 People riding B.C. Ferries will get a bit of relief next month. The company announced Thursday that it will cut its fuel surcharge in half by Nov. 3 to reflect dropping oil prices. B.C. Ferries' president David Hahn said the company has been in talks with B.C. Ferry Commissioner Martin Crilly for several weeks about lowering the surcharge. Crilly approved a 50% reduction Thursday, but Hahn said it will take two weeks for the company's aging computer system to implement the change. "If we can do it sooner, I'm going to do it," he said. "It's just that's the way the systems are here. They're, like everything else, a little bit old." Hahn said it will only be a partial reduction at first, because the company was late imposing the surcharge, and racked up a deficit when fuel prices were high. "We were late going in with this, and we're going to be late coming back out," he said. B.C. Ferries imposed a 10.3% surcharge on major routes beginning Aug. 1. Fares increased 17.6% on 18 minor routes. Hahn said B.C. Ferries will hold further discussions with Crilly over the next 30 days. "Hopefully, we'll start working out the timing on when we can get rid of the other 50%," he said. © The Daily News (Nanaimo) 2008 ========================= I was checking a few of the east coast services earlier in the week and saw the same trend...one company has actually eliminated the surcharge altogether. 64.233.169.104/search?q=cache:5zfgXbida0QJ:www.bpjferry.com/+ferry+fuel+surcharge&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=9&gl=us&client=firefox-aSorry if that doesn't work too well; the pop-up has changed and I had to use the cached page. Black Ball has also implemented similar changes - www.peninsuladailynews.com/article/20081016/NEWS/310169991
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Post by Northern Exploration on Oct 17, 2008 12:20:19 GMT -8
Interesting that it takes a few weeks of discussions/negotiations to lower fares. Hahn is saying he wants to drop the rest of the surcharge but that will take a few more weeks. I would love to know what kind of information exchange is necessary.
Does the Ferry Commissioner require income and expense spreadsheets? Is he on the hook for responsibility if BC Ferries lowers fares too far and goes into a deficit? I can see BC Ferries needing to justify higher fares, but what jsutification do they need to give to lower fares? I haven't paid attention to all these details in reading the general information on this before so maybe these answers are obvious and it hasn't sunk in.
Compared to a regular company BC Ferries has a limited area where it can operate as it wishes and is quite highly regulated. Profits fund equipment and infrastructure improvements but free ranging ability to operate is somewhat constrained. Hahn has clear objectives and goals set for him that he must satisfy and by which he is judged. The more I know the more I wonder if I would want that job despite the obvious attraction to the area.
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Post by Hardy on Oct 18, 2008 11:43:19 GMT -8
My reading of this, is that BCFS claims that it was slow to hike up the fares (although when they did, the gouge factors were high!). Therefore, in an effort to still recover costs, they'll leave the surcharges on later -- IE: if you believe them, they are saying that the total length of time that their FSC is in place will be the same as the other industries, just that because they had a later implementation date, they will also have a later removal/rollback date.
Similarly topic'ed -- it is interesting to watch the news and see that gasoline is now under $1.00/l in eastern Canada -- we're still around $1.20 and not all of that is Gordon's CarbonTax.
But there is no collusion, gouging etc in the petroleum industry.
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Post by Northern Exploration on Oct 18, 2008 12:53:28 GMT -8
Yes I filled up for 99.3 per litre yesterday. Some places were 98.9 apparently. Today it bumped back up to 100.6 or so. My understanding is that Marine fuel doesn't bounce around as much but not sure how accurate that is.
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Post by gordon on Oct 18, 2008 13:00:40 GMT -8
Metro Vancouver pays 12.5 cents/l Translink taxes
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Post by Low Light Mike on Oct 19, 2008 8:33:14 GMT -8
The locals are organizing..... www.canada.com/theprovince/news/story.html?id=87331870-aba0-4cbf-8618-e81a0cadf5c7============= Town hall called over ferry cuts Cheryl Chan The Province Sunday, October 19, 2008 Sunshine Coast residents outraged over recent cuts in ferry sailings will vent their frustrations at a town hall meeting in Gibsons tomorrow. Organizer Nicholas Simons, MLA for Powell River-Sunshine Coast, said the community is furious over the lack of public consultation: "If you're going to mess with our only highway system, can you talk to us first so we can reduce the negative impact?" As part of cost-cutting measures, B.C. Ferries has cancelled four sailings between Horseshoe Bay and Langdale on Saturday night and Sunday morning. Similar cuts were made on the Swartz Bay-Tsawwassen and Departure Bay-Horseshoe Bay routes. Simons said the sailing cuts are wreaking havoc on people's schedules as many residents often travel to the Lower Mainland for "routine activities" on weekends, including work, sporting events, extra-curricular activities and church services. He has invited Transportation Minister Kevin Falcon and B.C. Ferries president David Hahn to the meeting, but has not received a reply. A ministry spokesperson said Falcon was in Sechelt Wednesday to discuss the ferry cuts with city council. The decision to cut the sailings was based strictly on the numbers, said B.C. Ferries spokeswoman Deborah Marshall. "We recognize we are inconveniencing customers, but we chose those [sailings] to impact the least amount possible." Marshall said the 6:20 a.m. Sunday Langdale sailing operates at only five-per-cent passenger capacity and 16-per-cent vehicle capacity in the low season. The town hall meeting starts at 7:30 p.m. tomorrow at the Gibsons and Area Community Centre. chchan@theprovince.com © The Vancouver Province 2008 ======================
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Post by gordon on Oct 19, 2008 9:37:32 GMT -8
The service cuts are obviously a much more serious issue on this route because there are no other options as there are for route #2 customers, but as long as the ferry service is being operated as a quasi private sector company they have to look at capacity more or less the same way that airlines do.
Hopefully as the price of oil continues to drop they will be able to re-evaluate all the fare & service related issues and return things to the status quo as soon a possible
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Post by Northern Exploration on Oct 19, 2008 10:02:41 GMT -8
Ironic that had negotiations gone better and there was stronger local leadership - there would be another service alternative to Gibsons. Not to say that there would be a ferry scheduled at that time, but with such a small number of people for those sailings it would be far easier to make a go of it with a smaller service. And of course that service would probably be to downtown rather than other parts of the city.
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Post by Low Light Mike on Feb 21, 2009 13:02:26 GMT -8
(other routes)
In the nine months ended December 31, 2008, revenue from our other routes consisted of 49% from customers and 51% from the Province (1% fare reduction agreement, 4% social program fees, 36% ferry transportation fees, and 10% from payments under the Federal-Provincial subsidy agreement).
We experienced a continued decrease in vehicle and passenger traffic levels on our other routes in the third quarter of fiscal 2009 partially due to the adverse impact of three weeks of severe weather conditions in December. The reduction in total tariff revenue as a result of lower traffic levels was more than offset by the increase in average vehicle and passenger tariff revenue.
Above quote is from the BCFS 12/31/2008 MD&A report. And the telling quote is: ...ie it doesn't matter that fewer passengers on these essential-local-travel routes were carried, because the company still received the same total revenue. (you can see that the spirit of " Save Our Ferries" has come-upon me to preach good news to the island-poor, to bind up the broken-systems, to proclaim freedom for the island-captives and release from financial-darkness for the ferry-users). ;D
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Post by Low Light Mike on Feb 21, 2009 14:02:51 GMT -8
The following quote explains the impact of fuel costs on ferry expenses, and therefore on fare increases/rebates. The quote is long, but is as good a description on fuel-impacts as I've ever seen, for BCFS (other than Jack Cascade's commentary). It is from the 12/31/2008 MD&A report. Seriously, Jack Cascade is the only member that ever really commented on the fuel accounts issues, and maybe the following excerpt will help more of us to understand what really happens with fuel costs at BCFS. (or maybe not.... ;D). But if you want to know, this excerpt might be a help..... ----------------------------------- Fuel Costs
Fuel is a major cost of our operations. Fuel oil prices have fluctuated significantly during the past year after increasing dramatically over the past few years and there is uncertainty of future pricing.
We are exposed to risks associated with the volatility of the market price of fuel which we manage by entering into swap agreements in order to add a fixed component to the inherent floating nature of fuel prices. Fuel price hedging instruments are used solely for the purpose of reducing fuel price risk, not for generating trading profits.
Our fuel price risk management policy limits hedging to a maximum of 95% of anticipated monthly fuel consumption for the immediately following 12 month period; a maximum of 90% of anticipated monthly fuel consumption for the 12 month period thereafter; and a maximum of 85% of anticipated monthly fuel consumption for the period thereafter to the end of the second performance term ending March 31, 2012.
At December 31, 2008, we held 20 swaps that will mature prior to the end of February 2010. These fix approximately 70% of our anticipated fuel costs for the next year. Gains and losses resulting from fuel forward contracts are recognized as a component of fuel costs. To mitigate the effect of volatility in fuel oil prices on our earnings, we use deferred fuel cost accounts.
For the northern routes, the per litre cost of fuel included in the determination of price caps (the set price) and one-half of the first 5 cents per litre of difference between the actual price paid per litre (including realized hedge gains and losses) and the set price are recorded in expense. The remaining one-half of the first 5 cents per litre of difference is recorded in the deferred fuel cost accounts. Any difference beyond 5 cents per litre is recovered from or paid to the Province. The total to be recovered from the Province relating to fuel costs on the northern routes was $2.6 million for the nine months ended December 31, 2008.
For all other routes, differences in fuel costs arising from our actual price paid per litre (including realized hedge gains and losses) being higher or lower than the unit set price included in base tariffs less one-half of the first 5 cents per litre of difference are charged or credited to the deferred fuel cost accounts.
The balances in our deferred fuel cost accounts totalled $20.8 million at December 31, 2008 ($11.9 million at March 31, 2008). Included in the December 31, 2008 balance is $7.8 million in unrealized fuel hedge losses on fuel forward contracts entered into to fix the price of future purchases. Also included in the balance is a reduction of $1.3 million reflecting three quarters of the agreed $1.7 million annual payment from the Province.
In performance term one, to reduce the increasing balances of the deferred fuel cost accounts, the Commissioner approved extraordinary price cap increases to allow for fuel surcharges which were implemented from time to time, beginning in July 2005. In performance term two, there is a mechanism in place to allow price cap increases to provide for implementation of fuel surcharges. The mechanism also provides for fuel rebates when appropriate.
As a result of dramatically rising fuel costs over the first four months of the fiscal year, we received approval from the Commissioner to allow for the early implementation of fuel surcharges, effective August 1, 2008, on all but the northern routes. Subsequently, fuel prices dropped and we obtained approval to first reduce these fuel surcharges by 50% effective November 4, 2008 and further eliminate all remaining fuel surcharges to reflect the continuing drop in fuel prices. All remaining fuel surcharges were removed on December 19, 2008 on the major routes and December 5, 2008 on all other routes.
Fuel rebates of up to 5% will be implemented on the other routes in February 2009. At this time we cannot offer fuel rebates on the major routes due to the negative balances in the deferred fuel cost accounts.
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Post by Dane on Mar 3, 2009 17:04:49 GMT -8
BC Ferries: Put your hands up, high, up in the air where I can see them Passenger: Okay, okay I'm doing it BC Ferries: Now don't move, we're just going to take your wallet Passenger: Why??? I just got it back after December & January... BC Ferries: Sorry, we're not in the business of caring. Get out of here, punk. www.bcferries.com/bcferries/faces/attachments?id=89264
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Post by Nickfro on Mar 3, 2009 17:04:49 GMT -8
From the BCFS News Releases section: The news release contains a revised fare summary for each affected route.
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Post by Mike C on Mar 3, 2009 20:20:55 GMT -8
"OF COURSE! Fare increases - that'll encourage ridership! Heheheheheheheheheheh......"
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Post by DENelson83 on Mar 3, 2009 23:25:22 GMT -8
I wouldn't call them "fares". I'd call them FOULS instead.
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Post by Mike C on Mar 4, 2009 12:07:54 GMT -8
Is it ironic that "Fare" and "Fair" rhyme? They're two totally opposite things.
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Post by Barnacle on Mar 8, 2009 9:27:12 GMT -8
As a completely unrelated aside, on our boat we used to take great delight in putting up the fares-and-parkig-fees-increase posters next to the Red Cross Drive posters that had the headline, "Give Blood..."
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Post by Hardy on Mar 9, 2009 8:44:33 GMT -8
on our boat we used to take great delight in putting up the fares-and-parkig-fees-increase posters next to the Red Cross Drive posters that had the headline, "Give Blood..." I appreciate your sense of irony Much along the same vane as I would do ...
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Neil
Voyager
Posts: 7,182
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Post by Neil on Mar 18, 2009 16:45:37 GMT -8
How honest is BC Ferries' announcement that they are raising rates on 'minor' routes by 7.25%? Maybe my math is off.
When I look at their table for the new rates, and compare them to the existing ones, every route appears to be getting nailed for more than 10%, even taking into account the fuel rebate.
Not the first time they've played loose with the truth when it comes to hosing residents on the islands.
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Post by Low Light Mike on Mar 18, 2009 19:49:12 GMT -8
How honest is BC Ferries' announcement that they are raising rates on 'minor' routes by 7.25%? Maybe my math is off. Regular vehicle on Quadra-Cortes run, for example: - current price in March 09: $ 19.45 off peak fare - April 1 2009 new price: $ 21.50 - This is an 11% increase. Now of course the news-release doesn't say that "fares will increase 7.25%", it says that "price caps will increase 7.25%". So, what is a price-cap? (no, not a Tim Hortons summer drink). www.bcferrycommission.com/regulation_of_fares.htmlI think it's saying that the avg fare in the "group" is increased 7.25%. Well if most fares are going up 11%, where's the 1 fare that's barely going up (to bring the average down to 7.25%)?
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Neil
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Posts: 7,182
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Post by Neil on Mar 18, 2009 21:50:30 GMT -8
I think it's saying that the avg fare in the "group" is increased 7.25%. Well if most fares are going up 11%, where's the 1 fare that's barely going up (to bring the average down to 7.25%)? I looked at Bowen, Denman/Hornby, Gabriola, Texada, and Salt Spring. You've added Cortes. All well above what they claim. To all those people who like the 'private' model for BC Ferries: Don't you think, in this case, since we're two months from an election, that it would be nice if the minister responsible had to answer for this sleight of hand, this latest round of price gouging? The government passes the buck to BC Ferries, and BC Ferries responds.... if they feel like it. I'm sending an e-mail to the BC Ferry Commissioner. I'll let you know if I get a response.
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Post by Hardy on Mar 19, 2009 7:50:48 GMT -8
Don't you think, in this case, since we're two months from an election, that it would be nice if the minister responsible had to answer for this sleight of hand, this latest round of price gouging? So we have a few questions in play here. (a) Will the minister responsible for BCF actually come up with an answer? (b) Will the parties use BCFerries and the associated fares as the proverbial beach ball to toss back and forth during the election campaign? (c) Will whichever party gets elected roll back the fares again after the election with all the pomp and circumstance that such a political hay-making session allows? Answers/supositions: (a) already answered - pass the buck; (b) pretty sure that it will be a hot-button issue, it usually is, that is, unless the economy continues to spiral down; (c) isn't this a well-established pattern already? The government passes the buck to BC Ferries, and BC Ferries responds.... if they feel like it. I'm sending an e-mail to the BC Ferry Commissioner. I'll let you know if I get a response. Do you want ME to hold YOUR breath for you so YOU don't die waiting for an answer?
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