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Post by Scott (Former Account) on Mar 11, 2008 20:41:13 GMT -8
Global BC aired an investigation this evening that took bacteria counts over certain surfaces on various transportation methods. Out of the three public transportation methods tested, the BCF ship (appears to be the Queen of Saanich) came out the worst by far... To watch this story, click here, when the window opens select Global BC Stories, then select Testing for Cleanliness.
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Post by Queen of Nanaimo Teen on Mar 11, 2008 21:15:05 GMT -8
I saw that on the News Hour tonight..... It was pretty horiffic! Especially on poor Miss Saanich I felt sort of sorry for her crew. The video is definately worth watching.
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Post by Ferryman on Mar 11, 2008 21:24:22 GMT -8
They were showing footage of both the Saanich and Vancouver on there. I knew some footage was of the Vancouver, with it showing some of the wood panelling on the walls of the Cafeteria that none of the other V's have.
Perhaps this means the stewards will have to give these critical areas more frequent cleans, with there being thousands of people passing through the Ferries on a daily basis. But is also a reminder for people wash their hands more frequently. There's signs in the washrooms as it is, reminding people to wash up to help prevent the spread of viruses.
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Post by kylefossett on Mar 11, 2008 21:26:23 GMT -8
this report on the news tonight just shows that germs are everywhere. wash your hands and you can avoid some of these germs
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Neil
Voyager
Posts: 7,187
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Post by Neil on Mar 11, 2008 21:43:52 GMT -8
What a shocking report. Bacteria on handrails... and on counters... who'd have thought! Guess I'd better stop wiping my hamburger on the bare counter like I always do, to get that extra flavour...
Must be terrible for CanWest- no SARS outbreaks for ages, a mild flu season- there's got to be some epidemic to get worked up about, and I guess bacteria is pretty dependable, considering that you've got millions (or is it billions?) in your body at any time. They could do some real investigative journalism, and nail the oil industry for colosally ripping us off with every price increase, but, nah... let's just go out and measure some bugs and freak people out with some big numbers.
Bacteria. The new HIV. Ferry patrons dropping like flies, and the Olympics just around the corner. Let the panic begin.
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Post by Political Incorrectness on Mar 11, 2008 22:03:00 GMT -8
Oh don't worry, we got sickness in our schools here that is going to start soon, if they are really getting desperate, maybe they should work in defense of middle class instead of those in David Hahn's category.
One thing I noticed was that they did not care to explain what caliform's are. Does anyone know what these are? Why is bacteria scrutinized when not all of it is bad? What does more of it mean in terms of spread?
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Mirrlees
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Post by Mirrlees on Mar 11, 2008 23:09:33 GMT -8
Fecal Coliform is a contamination by raw sewage and is measured in parts per million in bodies of water. People not washing their hands after using the toilet can spread this onto hard surfaces.
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Post by deepsea on Mar 12, 2008 5:26:28 GMT -8
OMG I was just on the Q of Vancouver!! I should panic right about ... never.
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Post by Northern Exploration on Mar 12, 2008 7:12:23 GMT -8
Wash your hands, wash your hands, wash your hands. Someone else did the same thing on aircraft and even tested aircraft drinking water. People are complaining about having to buy disposable pillows and blankets on aircraft these days. Don't. I won't go into the blankets that used to be reused. And then Good Morning American or Prime Time Live (can't remember which) with Dianne Sawyer, did the CSI thing on some of the top hotels in NYC. Remove the Bed Spread immediately when you get in the room. Don't use the glasses without washing them and be suspicious of the TV Remote. A travel expert gave me a tip, tell the hotel on your reservation and then remind the hotel by phone that you have allergies and ask for new blankets and pillows and an extra thorough cleaning. Or bring your own travel pillow. I have a friend who has gone all paranoid and she brings her own cleaning supplies and does the whole room before unpacking. That to me is going too far and takes all the fun out of travel. They have also found the worst thing in offices was coffee cups and secondly the keyboards. We are surrounded by bacteria and always have been. Carry the small containers of hand sanitizer with you. An asian friend of mine pointed out to me something, you seldom see chinese people holding their hamburgers with their hands, they use the wrapper to hold it. Simply washing our hands frequently stops a large amount of colds and flu, not to mention the bad kinds of bacteria. There is a recent study that children who grow up in an extremely santized home have a higher incident of asthma. I don't know if that is from the cleaning chemicals or from the fact that they are exposed to less bacteria etc. and therefore don't develop a resistance to them. I have been carrying the sanitizer with me and washing my hands more often - not just when I use the facilities and haven't had flu or a cold in a long time. Now that I have spouted off I will get a cold I am sure . *I typing this I came across a thread on an aviation forum on lavatory cleanliness and I quote, "Ok just after reading I cringe when i see some unsuspecting passenger walk around bare foot, or even socks only. I can just picture Gus Grissome wandering around with the DNA finding 'blue light'. It would light up the cabin. I'm including spit, piss, vomit, snot-the whole bodily fluid family." Ok if you are of strong stomach and a gluton for punishment you can read the rest. www.airliners.net/discussions/general_aviation/read.main/3879505/Sorry if you were reading this on your lunch break.
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Post by Scott on Mar 12, 2008 15:38:38 GMT -8
Last time I looked, there wasn't a cafeteria or bathroom on the bus or skytrain, so the comparison isn't very fair.
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Nick
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Post by Nick on Mar 12, 2008 15:46:35 GMT -8
I honestly don't get the big deal about this. Each of those major ships carry around 1000 people per sailing, roughly every 2 hours. Over 16 hours a day that's about 8,000 people. Comparing that to the Skytrain is ridiculously unfair. Skytrain takes maybe 300 people every 2 hours, or over a 16 hour day (the skytrain does shut down at night, right?) about 2400 people. Big difference people.....
I wash my hands after using the washroom and everything, but I don't go ballistic at the thought of "germs". I should probably knock on wood after saying this, but I haven't been sick enough to even think about missing work or school in 3 years (grade 11 was the last time I was sick). In comparison, my Aunt goes completely ballistic at the thought of anything bacterial/viral, and is constantly cleaning/disinfecting. She is off sick at least once a month. I realize this is not by any means a conclusive arguement, it just illustrates my theory/belief.
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Post by piller on Mar 12, 2008 18:25:31 GMT -8
Oh don't worry, we got sickness in our schools here that is going to start soon, if they are really getting desperate, maybe they should work in defense of middle class instead of those in David Hahn's category. One thing I noticed was that they did not care to explain what caliform's are. Does anyone know what these are? Why is bacteria scrutinized when not all of it is bad? What does more of it mean in terms of spread? Coliform bacteria are bacteria that are normally found in the human intestine (and in some othe species as well). It can cause urinary tract infections, especially if poor toilet hygiene is used or if some people are pre-disposed due to urinary tract anomalies or other reasons. In rare cases it can result in a severe kidney infection or septicemia. The common intestinal coliform (E. coli) is not the same strain that causes illness from eating undercooked hamburger. More importantly, the prescence of coliforms indicates fecal contamination. This can mean the surface may also be contaminated with hepatitis A, various other bacteria such as the one that causes typhoid fever, or another one that causes severe diarrhea. Viruses can also be present an example would be norovirus, the virus that causes Norwalk, which has caused widespread illness on cruise ships and shut down various health care facilities and school classrooms. Although the majority of bacteria are not harmful, it seems like the burden of bacteria on the tray line is excessive, I believe the news clip did indicate that the levels in the ferry cafeteria were much higher than those in other eateries they test. Each of us probably encounters something that is fecally contaminated on daily basis and we will never rid the world of disease causing organisms, but it would be a reasonable (and expected in this case) precaution to take some measures to minimize the risk of contagion. The first line is hand washing, the second routine cleaning.
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Post by Political Incorrectness on Mar 12, 2008 19:25:22 GMT -8
Thanks piller for the full explanation. One thing I noted was that Deborah Marshall looked rather stunned. Perhaps should BCFS be disinfecting hand rails and cafeteria areas after each sailing while pulling into dock in order to reduce down on this? Would it be economically feasable? What measures are currently done after each sailing for prevention of the spread of disease?
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Post by Hardy on Mar 12, 2008 19:37:34 GMT -8
Neil: while it may be slow news for CanWest, it is interesting to note that the did check out some high use transit methods in their test. I think it should serve as a wakeup call to BCFS. Think about it, if SkyTrain is less dirty than a BC Ferry, then I think that BCFS has room to improve.
Should we panic? No. Should we be concerned? Sure. Should we as consumers of a service demand that the service provider does a better job? Absolutely. I think that this just serves to point out that perhaps something got dropped from someone's "housekeeping" check list. Sweep stairs, vacuum carpets, wash down pop-splatter off walls, dust overheads. OOOPS, forgot to spray disinfectant on handrails and wipe. They do this on the tables/counters because they are trained to. Where is the checklist for stair well cleaning? I'm sure that this situation has already been addressed by BCFS, and any subsequent test would reveal this.
As I say, pretty easy thing to overlook and just as easy to correct.
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Koastal Karl
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Post by Koastal Karl on Mar 12, 2008 19:45:42 GMT -8
When do you think the last time BC Ferries disinfected things like hand rails on the ships and so on??? I have taken foodsafe like three times and the stuff you see there is nasty.
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Post by Hardy on Mar 12, 2008 20:07:10 GMT -8
When do you think the last time BC Ferries disinfected things like hand rails on the ships and so on??? I have taken foodsafe like three times and the stuff you see there is nasty. 1997? That was unfair. Realistically? Maybe once per week? If that? I would guess it is now 3 times per day if not each sailing. It really does not take that much for someone to spray on the disinfectant and wipe it down. It does take time and effort, and therefore is an expense, but if they want to prevent a Norwalk like outbreak, then it behooves them to commit the time and manpower to do it.
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Post by Ian on Mar 12, 2008 20:17:05 GMT -8
I am disgusted with BC Ferries on this case. It does not matter if Global was having slow news, what they showed was deplorable. If I was a health minister or critic I'd have those ships pulled from service a disinfected from bow to stern.
Also on the biological front. True there are many bacteria that are not harmful but when you have 100 000 plus bacteria the chances are that the majority are not good for the human body. I can guarantee the lab techs doing the sampling took every precaution not to be exposed to the agar petrie dishes with the bacteria since exposure can be fatal when bacteria cultivates. Also the choloform count was extremely high and choloforms can be fatal.
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Neil
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Post by Neil on Mar 12, 2008 21:13:03 GMT -8
Neil: while it may be slow news for CanWest, it is interesting to note that the did check out some high use transit methods in their test. I think it should serve as a wakeup call to BCFS. Think about it, if SkyTrain is less dirty than a BC Ferry, then I think that BCFS has room to improve. No question, Hardy, it's a valid concern. I guess it's just that, when it comes down to a question of what am I more leery of, CanWest or bacteria, I really have to think about it...
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Post by Curtis on Mar 12, 2008 22:18:17 GMT -8
It's almost not fair using the "V" Class Vessels. For one they're the oldest vessels of the fleet and who says they'll even be running on Route 1 in 2010. They should have inspected a "C" Class or another vessel that's for sure running in 2010.
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Post by BreannaF on Mar 13, 2008 6:32:39 GMT -8
It was a slow news day. I think just about every TV station everywhere at one time or another, on a slow news day, has gone out with swabs to take samples of bacteria from fast food counters, doorhandles to retail stores, bus handles, and anywhere else that lots of people put their dirty hands on every day. And, you know what? They aren't sanitary. Frankly, I think that saying "there's a lot of bacteria on this thing that hundreds of people touch every day" is like saying that the ocean is suffering from dampness. Of course it is! Thats's not news. That is pointing out something that is obvious to most people. Isn't it?
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Mill Bay
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Post by Mill Bay on Mar 13, 2008 8:20:08 GMT -8
It's almost not fair using the "V" Class Vessels. For one they're the oldest vessels of the fleet and who says they'll even be running on Route 1 in 2010. They should have inspected a "C" Class or another vessel that's for sure running in 2010. I shouldn't really matter what ship they use for an example or which route it's on. Besides, the ferries aren't here just for the people that visit in 2010. That's just going to be for a few weeks for a one time mega-event. Instead of worrying about making a big impression once in a while, shouldn't they try to maintain the same level of cleanliness everyday for their regular customers... the ordinary users of the service and not catering just to special guests.
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Post by Terry on Mar 13, 2008 8:39:38 GMT -8
I honestly don't get the big deal about this. Each of those major ships carry around 1000 people per sailing, roughly every 2 hours. Over 16 hours a day that's about 8,000 people. Comparing that to the Skytrain is ridiculously unfair. Skytrain takes maybe 300 people every 2 hours, or over a 16 hour day (the skytrain does shut down at night, right?) about 2400 people. Big difference people..... Actually Skytrain ridership is around 220,000 passengers per day and the bus system in Vancouver carries even more per day, I think in the order of 500,000. Terry
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Post by kerryssi on Mar 13, 2008 9:25:27 GMT -8
Cleaning the ship requires bodies to do the job. BCFS is continually reducing crew sizes to the point where not all the work can get done. They have the absolute minimum crew required by Transport Canada. TC's criteria involves firefighting and ship evacuation, nothing about toilets or cleaning. That is left to the management. If the crew size requirements were reduced further, as desired by BCFS, then there would be no cafeteria or snack bar, just vending machines. The catering crew is only there because a set number of bodies are required to safely evacuate the ship. Since they have to be there it makes sense to have extra revenue produced by cafeterias and gift shops. At one time the company tried to save money by having the cleaners who clean the toilets and collect the garbage also work in the cafeteria during busy periods..UGH! The union fought that and won. Those germs have been with us since the beginning of time. How sanitary were outhouses? There is some concern that kids today are so protected that they never get a chance to build up immunity to infections. I do not think that the condition on the ships is of concern. Don't forget that the media is in business to sell advertising and sensationalism sells.
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Nick
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Chief Engineer - Queen of Richmond
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Post by Nick on Mar 13, 2008 11:32:34 GMT -8
I honestly don't get the big deal about this. Each of those major ships carry around 1000 people per sailing, roughly every 2 hours. Over 16 hours a day that's about 8,000 people. Comparing that to the Skytrain is ridiculously unfair. Skytrain takes maybe 300 people every 2 hours, or over a 16 hour day (the skytrain does shut down at night, right?) about 2400 people. Big difference people..... Actually Skytrain ridership is around 220,000 passengers per day and the bus system in Vancouver carries even more per day, I think in the order of 500,000. Terry I was referring to one train. It is like comparing apples to oranges to compare a system of hundreds of trains and buses to one ship. In one day, one train or bus will not carry nearly as many different people as one ferry.
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Post by Ian on Mar 13, 2008 19:43:31 GMT -8
Everyone is saying it is slow news. No, it is not slow news: Global does an insight each week on a certain subject and cleanliness happened to be this weeks. The fact that a BC Ferry was the place for the most bacteria is shocking considering the number of bacteria and choloform found and I bet even if they did the tests on a Spirit class, the results would be similar. What this report says is that people do not practice proper hygiene like washing hands after using the washroom or after coughing into their hands and it also shows that BC Ferries are insufficiently cleaning their vessels regardless of their age.
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