fares & reservations- Europe vs. BC

[Neil]

Questions for our 'eastern' correspondents......

BC Ferries charges for reservations. They represent it as the cost for assured loading; it could be seen as the customer being penalized for helping BC Ferries determine loads on specific sailings.
It seems that the philosophy is entirely different in Europe. On every European line, isn't it the customer making reservations who gets the discounts? If you show up at Dover on Friday afternoon without reservations, are you able to get on a ferry, and if so, would you not pay perhaps several times the most discounted rate? BC Ferries offers slight discounts at different times of the week and year, but the difference is nowhere near what I've seen on the European lines.
Currently the companies operating Dover to Calais are offering fares on selected sailings which are, at times, less than our fares to Vancouver Island. How common are those fares, and are they the result of a price war? I think most of us here are under the impression that European ferry fares are sky high; I know they certainly can be, but apparently there are bargains to be had.

Here in BC we seem to believe that getting on a ferry should be as easy as getting on a city bus. Perhaps it should be, but I think we need to stop penalizing people for reserving on the major routes, and perhaps we can learn something from the European model when it comes to structuring fares for different times.

[Political Incorrectness]

If you do a European model, you've learned already. First: loading takes forever, Second: Reserves are a requirement, Third: Routes market to different people. If you insert a European model to BC, say goodbye to millions made into chocolate hollondaise when the chefs are looking in the washrooms for what to make sauce out of.

[Neil]

First of all... 'Think D30'... I don't have a clue what you're on about.

As you say, Cascade, the situation regarding competition is quite different in Europe, where you do have some amazingly low airfares for the ferry companies to deal with. Still, I can't imagine the deals offered in newspapers being much lower than some of the fares in the ferry companies' websites- $40 for a car and driver to France at certain times, if they're representing the costs honestly.
It's interesting that you suggest Norway as a model for BC to study, given that they are outside of the EU and, most of their domestic service, although private, is subsidized, unlike the rest of Europe.
In many aspects, it's difficult to find parallels between Europe and BC with regard to ferries, although the pax totals- 25 million a year between UK and Europe, 22 million here, bear some similarities- and Stena found that a European style service wasn't easily replicable here with their failed Victoria to Seattle experiment. Still, taking a look at some of the European practises on fares, and perhaps considering more of the shipboard amenities Europeans are familiar with, couldn't hurt.

[Neil]

Not to quibble, but my figure of 25 million passengers between the UK and Europe came from Department of Transport figures for 2005. Port of Dover alone handled 13 million people, according to their figures.
By the way, who owns and operates a ferry port like Dover, and do the different companies use the same docks? What about when their boats are laying over?

[Starbucks Queen]

I think, one can´t compare it really.
Though, there are some facts which do apply to some ferry-companies here.
- When you book by telephone, fares are more expensive than when you book on the internet. They put the costs for the staff right on the customer.
- The earlier you book, the better fares you get. Book off - seasons and you might be on for a good deal
- Turn up in port and ask for a "trip with the next ferry" and you pay the most expensive fare.

I found the BC ferries fares quite cheap, but on the other side, they are subsidized, which most European ferry companies are not, plus there is competition on some routes.

Also, you can not at all compare ferry-travel with air-travel !!! Also not here in Europe. Simple reason - ever tried to take your car for a flight
If you don´t think of the car, think of the limited luggage you can take with you on a flight.
It is though possible to get a very cheap flight-ticket, if you book in advance, and if you are very lucky.
Though, in some cases a flight is cheaper than taking the train and the ferry. Fuel for the planes is (unfortunatelly) subsidized here.

Hornbyguy:
Yes the ferries at Calais and Dover use all the same docks. Some more useful info could probably be found on that one here:

www.portofdover.co.uk/

[Neil]

Cascade, I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on the figures, since if yours were right, it would mean that a number of sources were either wrong, or falsifying, to a huge extent. No matter.
That 'piracy' business was kind of interesting. And I've seen allegations of predatory pricing- has anyone actually been driven out of business that way?
Also, aside from the safety and legal aspects, are there restrictions on starting up new services, or is it basically a free for all if you can get port space?
Finally, I was going to reply to chivapcici's comment about how you can't compare ferry to air travel by pointing out that the ferry companies absolutely are competing for the same dollar, since people can rent vehicles, and not everyone needs to take a ton of luggage. I see that finally, the airlines in Hawaii are going to get some competition, as a new Honolulu- Maui car ferry service is starting up, with what looks to be very competitive rates. The car rental businesses there have always had an absolute lock on all the business, and some of their rates are awful. They must be nervous.

[Neil]

Hmmh... old ships-cheaper. New ships-more expensive. Does make a certain amount of sense. I sometimes wonder what foreign tourists must think when they walk around the outer decks of some of our older vessels, with their lumpy surfaces of painted over rust. Some of the pictures that chivapcici has posted certainly don't suggest any ferry I've ever been on here. (My only European ferry trip was Harwich-Hook of Holland on Sealink's 'St. Edmund'. Yes, that was a while ago)
I certainly agree with you on the veracity of certain government statistics. I did a fair bit of research on government, company, and trade journal figures. Thanks for the info.

[Neil]

For those who want to take the time to research, there are many sources of information other than ferry company websites. The photos I was refering to were chivapcici's holiday pics; I think we can safely assume they weren't doctored.

[Starbucks Queen]

Of course my photos are not doctored Would even not know how to do that.. But the ship has always been in traffic for top-companies when it comes to what was started as the "cruise ferry trend" in the beginning of the 80ies. Built for German TT-Line, later on to Brittany Ferries and sold further to DFDS, all three known for their rather luxurious ferries.

It´s true, that people here do look at how a ship looks, if they go. I mean if you want to spend your vacation in England/Europe you can pick several routes, and ones providing a lousy ship, will loose customers. Some here, and not just those who are interested in ferries like we here on the forums are, take the ferry because it is a more relaxed way to move forward, you can enjoy good food, and then have a good sleep and in the morning you are there. It´s relaxing especially if you have a long trip behind you and still something in front of you.
About renting a car, well I don´t have any statistics but I know many who do want to go just in their own car, that could be a reason too and I have seen many offers though, for rental-car holidays in Canada and USA.
Hm.. about nicking photos, I do take photos of ship´s interiors and once I got a mail from a ferry-company and they asked whether they can use some of the photos on their site. Was them here, btw: www.transeuropaferries.co.uk/