mrdot
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Mr. DOT
Posts: 1,252
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Post by mrdot on May 31, 2013 14:24:32 GMT -8
:)Stats for the Spirit of British Columbia (as built, 1993) Source: The Complete Encyclopedia of Steamships - Merchant Steamships 1798 - 2006 (John Batchelor & Christopher Chant) from Mr. DOT collectionNotes (based on data from 1993 publications introducing the SoBC): Passenger seating aboard Spirit class: Pacific Buffet - 200 Coastal Cafe - 297 Snack Bar (Deck 5) - 150 Total catering - 647Lounges Prom Deck Fwd - 288 Sun Deck Panarama Fwd - 442 Sun Deck Panarama Mid - 208 Sun Deck Panarama Aft - 150 (now SeaWest, originally Lantern Coffee Bar on SoVI) Work/Comp carrels - 34 Total seating in lounges = 1122Total seating including catering = 1769Max Passenger License = 2052Percentage of Max Pass that can be accommodated with a seat (1769/2052) = 86% ------- Add outdoor seating on Deck 6 = 380 Total seating inc catering, lounges & outdoors = 2149Percentage of Max Pass that can be accommodated with a seat (inc. outdoor - 2149/2052) = 105% Further Notes:As mentioned, this info is for the SOBC and was accurate (I believe) in 1993 (20 years ago). Both Spirits have had significant changes/upgrades? since that time. I am unaware of any significant capacity changes except one. That would be the opening up of a small area of outdoor space & seating on Deck 7 (that had previously been a crew only area). That area has seating for 75 maybe 100 people. I am fairly sure that outdoor seating number listed above (380) does not include the deck 7 area. If anyone has current numbers for the Spirits I would be happy to use them to update this post.
I would like to have numbers on the total passenger space available on both vessel classes (e.g. total passenger space on decks 5,6 & 7 (including outer decks) measured in square metres or feet). I would also like to have the ceiling height on all passenger decks for both classes. I believe the numbers will be close, but perhaps a little higher on the Coastals. Then I could calculate the deck space per person. It could be that the deck space per person on a fully loaded Coastal is actually a little more than on a Spirit. I don't know. I suspect the difference is small. It may also be just a matter of the passenger license on the Spirits at 2000+ is tolerating more crowding than 1600+ on a Coastal.
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Post by compdude787 on May 31, 2013 15:27:04 GMT -8
Even though the Spirits are single-ended (with a proper bow and stern), I don't like them because they look so ugly and mean-looking. The Coastals look much nicer and I think they are the nicest-looking large BCF vessel. The best-looking minor vessel is the Tenaka and I will be sad when she's retired. When this thread was started back in 2008 it was for the purpose of expressing opinions & feelings about the two classes of vessels. Now I would prefer that we stick to comparative stats & information and try to keep the opinions/feelings out of it. We also have had many threads discussing peoples opinions about which vessels are the nicest looking, etc. Alright. I'll let you guys talk about this amongst yourselves. After all, who am I to make judgements on which class of ferry is better when I haven't even rode on neither of them? All I can base my comparisons on is how they look from the outside, but you know, don't judge a book by its cover...
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Post by Blue Bus Fan on May 31, 2013 17:57:45 GMT -8
I like Coastal Class better because their design is cool; while I like the Spirits for their size. So, I guess I like both of the classes about the same.
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Koastal Karl
Voyager
Been on every BC Ferry now!!!!!
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Post by Koastal Karl on Jun 1, 2013 8:39:49 GMT -8
I like the Spirit's cause they look like real ships not like those double enders who need bridges on each end. lol! I think the Spirit ships are the best looking ships in the fleet along with the Nor Ex.
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Post by Low Light Mike on Jun 1, 2013 10:30:04 GMT -8
When this thread was started back in 2008 it was for the purpose of expressing opinions & feelings about the two classes of vessels. Now I would prefer that we stick to comparative stats & information and try to keep the opinions/feelings out of it. We also have had many threads discussing peoples opinions about which vessels are the nicest looking, etc. haha, welcome to the world of cat-herding, where the comparative stats are that one ship is "Awesome" and the other is "Stupid". I feel your pain.....
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Post by Low Light Mike on Jun 1, 2013 11:15:00 GMT -8
In terms of the design items that impact my travels on these 2 types of ships:
1) I like open viewing space at the stern, sheltered from the wind, but with open-air for photo/video opportunities. - For the Coastals, this is available on the upper vehicle deck, but the peripheral lines of sight from this location (right at the rolling-gate across the end of the car deck) are hampered by the bulwarks on either side. - For the Spirits, this is available to me on the outside passenger deck, aft of the SeaWest Lounge. A nice spot right by the flag pole. Spirit wins this battle.
2) For same reasons as #1 above, I also like forward viewing opportunities for filming and general gazing. However, this needs some easy access to nooks away from any forward wind. - For the Coastals, the side open-windows on the upper vehicle deck suit me fine. I like the easy access to either side of the ship, near the bow. These nooks shelter me from the wind, and give an angle view 45-degrees from forward. - For the Spooks, the gate at the bow of the upper vehicle deck is also a good spot, and the bulwarks are low enough not to interfere with peripheral vision. However, the car deck is usually more crowded, making it more difficult for me to move around from side to side for the side windows. Coastal wins this battle.
3) I spend 90% of my ferry-ride times at places other than the inside passenger decks. I much prefer the quieter and open-air spaces. - Coastals and Spirits both have room at bow & stern of upper vehicle decks, for time gazing out at the passing scenery and enjoying life on the water. - Coastals have a wider sundeck for walking on either side, if you're doing a circuit walking. I like that. Coastal wins this battle.
I'm not a typical traveller, but that's my comparison.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 1, 2013 11:23:21 GMT -8
I think the biggest disappointment to the vessels, are sometimes the lack of opportunity to run at their full potential sometimes. I liked the idea of having one on each Major Route, however it became evident right from the start where they would sail on a lower the Pax license and end up closing the majority of access to Deck 5. This is something that seems to always be the case on the Inspiration on Route 30. The Renaissance would also have Deck 5 closed alot of the time on Route 2. However, on Route 1 they of course need to run to their full potential to keep up with demand. When two Coastals are the only ones running on Route 1, I noticed there seemed to be alot more vehicle overloads even throughout the winter. The Spirits tend to clean the lot much easier it seems, and they tend to sail almost full or are full all of the time anyways. I used to be a big fan of the Coastals when they were brand new, but as time has gone on, I don't really care for them very much anymore. I've done a fair bit of traveling on the Coastal Celebration over the past few years, and I never appreciated the idea of having to either go to the buffet at an added price or go to the Cafeteria to end up being able to appreciate a forward or aft view while being inside and protected from the elements. Also, I've never quite understood that Catering services have taken presidence over having the better view instead of the Bridge. You'd think the bridge would always take presidence at the design phase to have the better view for navigational purposes. On top of all of that, I find the design flaw of the propellars slapping the surface of the water when the ship is empty to be a real disappointment. They also have a unique vibration which is more of a horizontal shaking as opposed to the traditional vertical vibration which I've never understood. That being said, I appreciate the double ended concept with the efficiences of being able to go straight out or into the docks. I've always been torn about the Spirits as well, but in comparison with the two classes I'll take the Spirit. Conventional design, great outer deck space, and there's even a proper seating lounge that allows you to sit in comfort and enjoy the forward view. However the extra time spent on manoevering in and out of the docks can be a bit of a drag sometimes. I'm with you 100% on this. If you ask me, a vessel should first be designed with the crew in mind, because they're the ones spending 8-12 hours aboard the ship of course. I don't like the pathetic amount of seats in the Sitka Lounge either, and having to pay to enjoy a forward looking view in the Cafeteria is a drag. Busy lounges on the Spirits can be an issue, but hey, the Seawest Lounge has a nice 180 degree view looking aft. The Seawest Lounge on the Coastals is not worth the money. Being a usual fan of shiny new vessels myself, I too liked the Coastals. The Spirits are much more suitable for their route, though. We all know that they will never operate any other route than route 1, unless some kind of miracle happens and they have them go on route 30. But I really think that route 1 should always have at least 1 S-boat in service year round. Coastals get overloaded as you mentioned, but I guess BCFS wants just that - full sailings. Were the Coastals designed off any specific route?
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Post by compdude787 on Jun 1, 2013 15:36:53 GMT -8
So, on the Coastals, you have to pay just to go into the forward lounge/cafeteria and sit and watch the view? Basically, do they charge you before you even buy any food? I'd say that's really stupid.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 1, 2013 16:26:03 GMT -8
So, on the Coastals, you have to pay just to go into the forward lounge/cafeteria and sit and watch the view? Basically, do they charge you before you even buy any food? I'd say that's really stupid. Maybe you should wait to get the answer before making loud statements. On the Coastals, you do not have to pay to go into the Sitka Lounge. However, there's very few seats at the front. On the other hand, in the cafeteria, you can't go unless you're actually eating a meal from there. When it's not too busy, you're welcome to take a seat, but when it's a full sailing, the seating is strictly reserved to cafeteria customers. The SeaWest lounge is a quiet lounge where you actually do have to pay to get in. It's mostly used by route 1 travellers wanting to escape the crowds.
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Post by compdude787 on Jun 2, 2013 13:26:16 GMT -8
So, on the Coastals, you have to pay just to go into the forward lounge/cafeteria and sit and watch the view? Basically, do they charge you before you even buy any food? I'd say that's really stupid. Maybe you should wait to get the answer before making loud statements. On the Coastals, you do not have to pay to go into the Sitka Lounge. However, there's very few seats at the front. On the other hand, in the cafeteria, you can't go unless you're actually eating a meal from there. When it's not too busy, you're welcome to take a seat, but when it's a full sailing, the seating is strictly reserved to cafeteria customers. The SeaWest lounge is a quiet lounge where you actually do have to pay to get in. It's mostly used by route 1 travellers wanting to escape the crowds. Okay, thanks for the info. The way you had worded a previous comment made it seem like you had to pay to merely set foot in the cafeteria, so that's why I asked for clarification. I think it's odd to put the cafeteria on the end of the ferry, but I guess we can't do anything about it now. Here's another thing that would be worth considering: To me the Coastals look like they'd be top-heavy, since they have three passenger deck levels as opposed to just two on the Spirits and Cs. Is it really true that they are top-heavy? Would they roll more on windy days than a Spirit or a C would?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 2, 2013 16:58:43 GMT -8
Okay, thanks for the info. The way you had worded a previous comment made it seem like you had to pay to merely set foot in the cafeteria, so that's why I asked for clarification. I think it's odd to put the cafeteria on the end of the ferry, but I guess we can't do anything about it now. Here's another thing that would be worth considering: To me the Coastals look like they'd be top-heavy, since they have three passenger deck levels as opposed to just two on the Spirits and Cs. Is it really true that they are top-heavy? Would they roll more on windy days than a Spirit or a C would? I apologize for any possible misunderstanding. To answer your question, No. The Coastals are not top heavy, and they actually have just as many decks as the Spirits do.
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Post by compdude787 on Jun 2, 2013 17:15:21 GMT -8
Okay, thanks for the info. The way you had worded a previous comment made it seem like you had to pay to merely set foot in the cafeteria, so that's why I asked for clarification. I think it's odd to put the cafeteria on the end of the ferry, but I guess we can't do anything about it now. Here's another thing that would be worth considering: To me the Coastals look like they'd be top-heavy, since they have three passenger deck levels as opposed to just two on the Spirits and Cs. Is it really true that they are top-heavy? Would they roll more on windy days than a Spirit or a C would? I apologize for any possible misunderstanding. To answer your question, No. The Coastals are not top heavy, and they actually have just as many decks as the Spirits do. That's good, at least top-heaviness is not an issue with the Coastals, so definitely looks are deceiving. Anyway, I've learned a lot more about these two ferries thanks to this thread.
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Neil
Voyager
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Post by Neil on Jun 2, 2013 18:17:16 GMT -8
Sitting on the ramp waiting to drive on to the 'Renaissance Friday afternoon, I thought again how butt-ugly these boats are from an end view. With the ungainly, blocky structure around the upper car deck, and the bridge squashed underneath the deck six windows and the solarium on top, there just is no proper 'ship' face, even by double ender standards. Looks more like some kind of weird office building.
Their passenger facilities are pretty good, though, and I have no problem with the cafeteria at one end- the 'Alberni is the same way. The Spirits are also well designed from a passenger point of view. The BC built twins also have a nice looking stern, although the sharply angular bridge has little grace about it... but that is the modern style.
They're all efficient vessels, in terms of accommodation. My bias is toward boats with a bow and stern, as well as ones that provided hundreds of local jobs in construction and millions of dollars injected into our economy, as opposed to that of Germany... another argument, I know.
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Post by Blue Bus Fan on Jun 2, 2013 19:04:43 GMT -8
Sitting on the ramp waiting to drive on to the ' Renaissance Friday afternoon, I thought again how butt-ugly these boats are from an end view. With the ungainly, blocky structure around the upper car deck, and the bridge squashed underneath the deck six windows and the solarium on top, there just is no proper 'ship' face, even by double ender standards. Looks more like some kind of weird office building. Their passenger facilities are pretty good, though, and I have no problem with the cafeteria at one end- the ' Alberni is the same way. The Spirits are also well designed from a passenger point of view. The BC built twins also have a nice looking stern, although the sharply angular bridge has little grace about it... but that is the modern style. They're all efficient vessels, in terms of accommodation. My bias is toward boats with a bow and stern, as well as ones that provided hundreds of local jobs in construction and millions of dollars injected into our economy, as opposed to that of Germany... another argument, I know. I disagree with you. I find the Coastals have the coolest design in the fleet; then I find the Spirits have the second coolest design in the fleet. I find the Powell River Class has the butt-ugly design.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 22, 2014 23:12:50 GMT -8
Copied from the Refits thread: Another question, when the passenger volume is high on route one (which is fairly often) people on this forum would often comment about how crowded they perceived a Spirit class vessel to be. Further, they would comment that the Coastal class vessels felt much more spacious. So the question is, do members here, still feel that that is the case today? I rode the Coastal Celebration last weekend, and I have to say I prefer the Spirits by far. The hallways on the Coastals are very small, and the ship seems to be designed for travellers to stay in one place for the duration of the sailing. The Spirits definitely feel more spacious given their open concept design. Definitely on the Coastals it is quieter, likely due to the more generous use of carpet versus the Spirits.
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Post by YoursTruly on Mar 22, 2015 16:09:07 GMT -8
I prefer working on the SOBC as its vibration is remarkably different than the Coastal Class. The vibration on the Coastal class is literally pain inducing and anyone who works on it is concerned about the future of their joints. I blame this on not enough wetted surface near the ends, particularly over the operational drive motor. (The C class don't shake like that!) The fixed fire fighting system in the Coastal is vastly superior but certainly adds considerably to the build cost. (an expansive array of stainless steel piping, but totally worth it.) Docking the Coastal class is superior during high winds, however during transits of active pass, the Spirit class is hands down superior. The Coastals Navigational equipment is inferior and in many respects dangerous/ highly unsuited for coastal navigation. The Spirit class was built with hammers and rocks, while the Coastal class was built with Information Technology and as a result you can expect more things to go wrong with electronics on the Coastal Class. (Doing wash down in the garbage compactor room for instance has shut down all ventilation in the galley and cafeteria causing smoking out the galley.)
Anyway, I prefer working on the Spirits, but as a passenger I prefer the Coastal class, particularly the forward facing Cafeteria or opposite lounge.. which ever end will let me read an email or news paper without blurring it.
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Neil
Voyager
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Post by Neil on Mar 22, 2015 17:48:46 GMT -8
I prefer working on the SOBC as its vibration is remarkably different than the Coastal Class. The vibration on the Coastal class is literally pain inducing and anyone who works on it is concerned about the future of their joints. I blame this on not enough wetted surface near the ends, particularly over the operational drive motor. (The C class don't shake like that!) The fixed fire fighting system in the Coastal is vastly superior but certainly adds considerably to the build cost. (an expansive array of stainless steel piping, but totally worth it.) Docking the Coastal class is superior during high winds, however during transits of active pass, the Spirit class is hands down superior. The Coastals Navigational equipment is inferior and in many respects dangerous/ highly unsuited for coastal navigation. The Spirit class was built with hammers and rocks, while the Coastal class was built with Information Technology and as a result you can expect more things to go wrong with electronics on the Coastal Class. (Doing wash down in the garbage compactor room for instance has shut down all ventilation in the galley and cafeteria for instance, smoking out the galley.) Anyway, I prefer working on the Spirits, but as a passenger I prefer the Coastal class, particularly the forward facing Cafeteria or opposite lounge.. which ever end will let me read an email or news paper without blurring it. I appreciate your perspective... I don't think we have any members currently working on the main routes... welcome aboard.
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Post by Dane on Jul 12, 2015 19:58:19 GMT -8
- I love the poor location of the Sea West Lounge on the Coastals as I will never use it in all likelihood and am happy services your average rider is more likely to use have been left in areas with exceptional views. Just revisiting this thread as I was thinking about it today.
For the last three months I have been a route 1 commuter, with occasional forays onto route 30, and once on route 2. All of this to say that I have been riding the non-C class major vessels frequently and lately in the very heavy summer traffic. As a result of this recent commuting my opinion has changed somewhat on the "Coastal vs Spirit" question.
Generally I now prefer the Coastals on the extreme busy days. While the critiques others have in this thread are valid, I have gained an appreciation for the separation of lounge areas on the Coastals. This separation has only one affect I care about - reducing sound. The Spirits are very very noisy ships when they're chalked full of people. I spend a lot of time now doing work and studying - escaping on a Spirit is simply not possible. On a Coastal though, there is several options on where to figuratively escape too, particularly when sailing on an A license and the whole of Deck 5 is open.
I highlighted my I probably won't use there SeaWest comment as I actually make semi-regular use of it now!
Additionally, the minor differences in the tighter cafeteria on the Coastals seems to actually assist in controlled passage of passengers through the area. Lastly the third till is great. (unrelated - the CI has Coke Zero, which I like, and seems to be the only ship with it??)
At the end of the day though both classes are great. The Queen of New West continues to be, without doubt, the worst ship in the fleet for major route service and I wish a replacement was on the forefront. I seem to have a knack for catching her.
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Post by Mike on Jul 12, 2015 20:14:52 GMT -8
The Queen of New West continues to be, without doubt, the worst ship in the fleet for major route service and I wish a replacement was on the forefront. I think I'd be a really good idea if the Inspiration and the New West traded places. All the extra passenger space on the Inspiration is rarely used on Route 30.
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Koastal Karl
Voyager
Been on every BC Ferry now!!!!!
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Post by Koastal Karl on Jul 12, 2015 20:18:42 GMT -8
I think the only route for the New West should be route 30 with the Alberni. The Inspirtaion should be on route 1 as the extra Tsawwassen boat or route 2. I was on the Inspiration on Canada Day and I still cant grasp deck 5 never being used. It is such a waste of space. Honestly I prefer the Spirit's over the Coastal's. I have always loved the Spirit's and will always love those ships. Only complaint is they are noisy when full and I wish the kids play area on deck 6 was enclosed like the other ships. I do like the sheltered decks on the Coastal's though especially in crappy weather.
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Post by Blue Bus Fan on May 5, 2022 20:45:13 GMT -8
I find the Spirit have well design layout in terms of passengers cabin because the main deck has main food outlet, passenger gifts shop while upper have kids play area and SeaWest lounge. The Coastal Class have interesting design choice while deck 5 can be closed which main deck more crowded in my opinion. The Cowichan Class has side bad design in terms for passenger since the car decks are very difficult to drive due the car deck have two tunnels and main deck seems to busy in terms of passenger and amenities.
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