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Post by Low Light Mike on Apr 2, 2009 17:23:53 GMT -8
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Neil
Voyager
Posts: 7,177
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Post by Neil on Apr 2, 2009 18:46:37 GMT -8
You can take two completely different viewpoints on this story, and both are valid.
One- Seaspan and Van Isle Tug & Barge have built a business hauling trailers to Vancouver Island, and they've done it without a ferry subsidy, both in the sense of building their infrastructure and operating their boats. BC Ferries does have a very unfair advantage, being subsidized, and they might run these companies out of the market, which would not benefit customers.
Two- BC Ferries has a mandate to operate as a private concern, and to grow their business however they can. We are the shareholders, and we want as good a return on our investment as possible, and these days there are very few opportunities for BC Ferries to establish new markets, at least here at home. Drop trailers is one possibility, so they're obliged to give it a go.
We probably can't have it both ways, given the current corporate structure of BC Ferries.
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Post by Dane on Apr 2, 2009 22:05:04 GMT -8
I am ticked, you should see how much parking space is gone at Tsawwassen. It better be a very profitable venture, seeing as they're putting it ahead of the passenger.
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rt1commuter
Chief Steward
JP - Overworked grad student
Posts: 167
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Post by rt1commuter on Apr 3, 2009 0:16:39 GMT -8
Meh, it's cheaper to park at the ValuPark place anyways.
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Post by Starsteward on Apr 3, 2009 13:18:19 GMT -8
BC Ferries has a beautiful Tractor-Mule rig that hauls flat-bed trailers, as well as forty foot reefer trailers and general goods trailers on and off the Queen of Prince Rupert, Northern Adventure and will soon do so on the Northern Expedition when these vessels ply routes 30 and 40. I was surprised to see 8 drop trailers on the run from Port Hardy to Prince Rupert and only slightly fewer on runs to and from Prince Rupert to Skidegate. The Tractor-Mule was busy off loading and loading at every stop, and sailed aboard the QPR so that it could off-load these trailers as soon as the ship docked. The Mule rig is operated by one of the senior deck crew ( in posession of a valid air brake ticket) and handled the rig like he was driving a sports car. Excellent performance!
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Post by Hardy on Apr 3, 2009 17:41:17 GMT -8
Not just an Air Brake Endorsement, but also a valid BC Class-1 license. I would guess that that senior deck crew was more than likely a truck driver at some point in his career, because "BOOK SMART" and just taking a truck-driving course does NOT qualify you to play with a 75+' combination unit in tight spaces and ESPECIALLY backing-up around corners/curves. Plenty a newly-minted Cl-1 driver still seem to "bend the iron" and that gets VERY EXPENSIVE VERY QUICKLY.
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Post by Starsteward on Apr 4, 2009 0:14:27 GMT -8
The chap that was driving was fairly young, ( anyone's younger than me, so it's hard to tell), but I would say early 30's. The parking lot at Skidegate has quite a slope down towards the Terminal Office and roadway to the loading ramp and drivers have to take it easy backing down and around from the slope to the ramp as it gets a bit messy dumping produce from a TGP 75 footer all over the terminal lot.
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Post by Hardy on Apr 5, 2009 8:31:12 GMT -8
Don't want to crush all those tomatoes! While he might not be an OLD HAND then, I would still hazard he was a trucker before he was a BCFS employee -- easier to retrain a trucker to drive trucks on a ferry than to train a ferry worker to drive tractor-trailer ... at least IMNSHO.
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Post by Low Light Mike on Apr 6, 2009 18:26:21 GMT -8
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Post by Hardy on Apr 6, 2009 22:57:52 GMT -8
"Deb" raises a good point insofar as the major routes indeed DO NOT receive financial subsidization via the CFA.
That said, I would also like to hear a competent reply to Mr. Samuel's query regarding how BCFS means to maintain their SCHEDULE when including drop-trailers on regular sailings ...
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Post by landlocked on Apr 7, 2009 7:16:59 GMT -8
So, if BCFS doesn't need subsidies on the major routes, then why do they willingly accept $27M from the Feds on route 30 and $15M from the Ministry of Health and Ministry of Transportation for the provision of social programs ie the Seniors Travel Subsidy and the Medical Transfer Program?
In the case of the Seniors program, the Province refused to look at any other carriers being named as 'eligible' for the customers to use as well, if one looks at the Medical Transfer program, most of the other carriers, with the exception of the bus lines who pass along the ferry fare discounts, bear the entire cost on their own to provide this service. BCFS are the only carrier in the program who are entirely re-imbursed by the Province.
No subsidies, eh? Right Deb.
Let's also not forget the sales tax not paid on the Kuper by applying the same rules by the PST Branch to it as they did to HarbourLynx. Oh right, I forgot, BCFS were able to escape that because they argued they never brought a boat into the country, just the pieces...right, I forgot.
We are talking about a company that will recieve subsidies approaching $200M that is now going head to head with private unsubsidized carriers. Some competition that is. I can't blame Seaspan for being upset, but it appears that it's 'hands off' from the government when it comes to BCFS. I feel another Coast Ferries episode coming along here, when one or both of the private carriers are driven out of the business by their own government. Shame.
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Post by Scott on Apr 7, 2009 16:57:11 GMT -8
Hopefully some members can help me out here. I'm trying to think if there are any branches of Seaspan International that recieve some kind of subsidy or grant from the government to operate... like their ship building or tow-boat operations.
I think Deborah Marshall makes a fair point that the subsidies are directed at the minor routes, and not at BC Ferries as a whole. Although when you take the government's "gift" at Christmas time so the corporation could lower fares as an example, that seems like a general subsidy rather than a targetted one.
Interesting topic.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Apr 8, 2009 16:32:30 GMT -8
With regard to subsidies, our tax dollars are being transferred to BC Ferries, a corporate entity. It doesn't make much difference whether they pretend to apply it to the Minor Routes or the Queen of Fort St., it's still a subsidy that is intended to help the bottom line. It's not likely that Seaspan or any of their competitors are given that advantage. Gordo's Christmas gift by any other name is still a taxpayer's subsidy. My recollection of any assistance to companies like Seaspan has been fairly minor and short duration .... eg. shipbuilding subsidies way back when ...
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Neil
Voyager
Posts: 7,177
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Post by Neil on Jun 30, 2009 18:19:00 GMT -8
At the recent AGM, David Hahn said that BC Ferries was serious about getting into the drop trailer business, but he didn't specify how much business they're doing as of yet.
I haven't noticed trailers at Tsawwassen or Duke Point on recent trips, and I haven't seen any aboard ferries. Has anyone else seen any, and if so, on what sailings? Anyone observed them being loaded or taken off, and noticed how quickly it's being done? Hahn said they were making use of dead space on board, but I can't imagine they would ever be loading them during busier times, so I'm assuming they must tell customers that loading will be done when the schedule and space allows, perhaps only specifying the day.
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Post by Scott (Former Account) on Jun 30, 2009 18:49:14 GMT -8
BC Ferries main drop trailer user currently is Safeway.
The loading and unloading process is quick and does not affect the departure times. Unlike Route 10 and 11, the cab (truck) stays coupled with the trailer during the sailing. After dropping the trailer off, the cab may be left at the compound or taken back aboard for the return trip.
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Post by Dane on Jun 30, 2009 22:26:56 GMT -8
There does seem to be a low, but consistent level of drop trailer traffic out of Tsawwassen. There's never a large number of trailers there, but I haven't seen none recently (two months or so).
Given what Scott said about the loading it can be hard to tell when they're coming aboard if you don't watch the course the vehicles take. I know I was on a sailing with a few last week just because of the copious quantity of Safeway ads on the MCD.
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Post by Northern Exploration on Jul 1, 2009 6:13:05 GMT -8
I also wouldn't be surprized if they moved most of the trailers during slower periods of the day. First and last sailings may get a higher number for that reason.
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Post by Mac Write on Jul 2, 2009 11:27:28 GMT -8
We need photos of the cab!
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Post by Scott (Former Account) on Jul 2, 2009 11:33:36 GMT -8
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Post by Mac Write on Jul 2, 2009 14:27:30 GMT -8
Ah so I full-size. How many drivers do they have to drive them on/off, do the drivers stay on board?
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Post by kaptainkrunch on Jul 6, 2009 10:23:30 GMT -8
The driver(s) drives on, then walks off the vessel. Another driver(s) at the other terminal, walks on and drives the same semi off. No drivers remain on board. I have seen up to 3 drop trailers on one sailing (route 1). BC Ferries claims up to 100 drop trailers per week (routes 1, 2 and 30).
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Post by lmtengs on Jul 6, 2009 11:20:42 GMT -8
wait... which ship is the MCD? I'm not familiar with that title... maybe we should start a thread with a list of abbreviations...
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Post by Curtis on Jul 6, 2009 11:24:45 GMT -8
wait... which ship is the MCD? I'm not familiar with that title... maybe we should start a thread with a list of abbreviations... MCD=Main Car Deck
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Post by lmtengs on Jul 6, 2009 11:47:21 GMT -8
oh! I though it had to do with McDonalds or something, and it was named after a ship that was cheap and low quality, like Mcdonalds, or something like that... okay then!
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Post by Low Light Mike on Jul 6, 2009 12:19:12 GMT -8
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