Vessel alterations

[Retrovision]

I was flipping through my ferry books the other day, and much to my surprise I noticed that at one time *all* (or atleast the Esq) of the V-Class had main (car) deck windows (that is to say the Esquimalt and Saanich in addition to the Van and Vic).

For no particular reason at all I'm trying to figure out around when and why this was changed.

Examples:
-Several times throughout "Exploring BC's Coast..." (the big, glossy picture book)(atleast I think that's the name; I don't have it with me presently) the Queen of Esquimalt and, I'm fairly sure, the Saanich are shown with main deck windows like we now know as only being on the Vancouver and ex Victoria.

-The contradictory example of this is the full page photo on page 48 of G.&P. Bannerman's 1985 book "The Ships of British Columbia..." showing Tsawwassen terminal from the air. All three berthed ships (Sidney class, V-Class and B-Class) in the photo are in the original pastel blue dogwood paint-scheme, and the V-Class has no main deck windows.

The only conclusion that I can think of is that the main deck windows have been both installed and removed over the years. I guess this adds another dimention when a V-Class in expo scheme is used for trivia.
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Another alteration that I've noticed recently is the angled facades leading up to the pilot house and monkey island on all of the V/B-Class ships, as well as the raised funnel (which I've always noticed).

In this photo (from EvergreenFleet.com),
www.evergreenfleet.com/qoesq_03.jpg
you'll notice that it's a streched V/B-Class (Esquimalt, according to the website) without the angled facade or heightened funnel. Personally, I've never seen a pic or heard of the streched V/B-Class not sailing with that facade or heightened funnel (I always thought that the facades and funnel extentions were added, along with widening the interior of the caffeteria and lengthening the aft upper-deck lounge, during the streching process) after their strech. Could this picture be an artist's rendering?

[Koastal Karl]

I always thought the Esquimalt and Saanich were always like that never having the main deck portholes. I wonder if the New West had them after she was lifted as she dosent now if she did before.

[Retrovision]

I don't think any of the lifted originals had anything but those round portholes before lifting. There's a great full-page photo of the new west pre-lift (in Dogwood paint-scheme) on page 12 of G.&P. Bannerman's 1985 "The Ships of British Columbia..." showing her with those classic round portholes.

[Ferryman]

The Newwest never had the bottom car deck windows, only the little port holes when she had one car deck. The Saanich and Esquimalt had their bottom car deck windows covered up in the early 90s. In the footage I have of the catamaran that crashed into the side of the Saanich, it had only a few of the windows covered up. Also in that video I posted a while back from the 70s, the funnel wasn't taller, and same with the part you were talking about on the bridge.

[Retrovision]

ferryman said:

Also in that video I posted a while back from the 70s, the funnel wasn't taller, and same with the part you were talking about on the bridge.

Ahh, so that footage shows a streched V or B with a short funnel then, eh? I've always wondered the chronology of those alterations, thanks.

I've always wondered their reasoning for alterations such as the openings on the car decks. I seem to remember recently seeing the Nanaimo (b4 refit) showing the rust signs of a former (fairly large) hole in the side of its car deck (near the bow); any info on that?

[Ferryman]

From what I remember, there are two large holes on both sides at the bow on the Nanaimo, still, or did they just recently get rid of them?

[Retrovision]

We might be thinking of different holes. I haven't seen the one(s) I'm talking about ever uncovered (although I've only been noticing for about the last year or so). The one I'm speaking of is like a rectangle with curved corners towards the bow, and up fairly high (between the hull and the passenger deck).
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

I wonder why they kept the main deck openings on the Vic and Van, and not the Esq or Saan, when they've clearly altered them either way in the past, and presumably know which way works best? In other words: Why not have uniform ships if one technique works better?

[Ferryman]

Yup, I know what you mean. These are the ones you are talking about here:
www.pbase.com/kstapleton/image/33938932 (beside bow doors)

[Retrovision]

ferryman said:

Yup, I know what you mean. These are the ones you are talking about here:
www.pbase.com/kstapleton/image/33938932 (beside bow doors)

Yup, that's the one (below where the fwd observation lounge starts).

[Airchime]

This is from a few months back...but I found something interesting in one of my Dolphin magazines I thought I'd add:

I was flipping through my ferry books the other day, and much to my surprise I noticed that at one time *all* (or atleast the Esq) of the V-Class had main (car) deck windows (that is to say the Esquimalt and Saanich in addition to the Van and Vic).

For no particular reason at all I'm trying to figure out around when and why this was changed.

From The Dolphin January/February 1985 issue:

"Ventilation holes are being cut in the sides of all major vessels in the BC Ferries fleet (the Victoria Class ships) to assist in circulating and clearing air from the car decks."

"All work is being done at Deas Dock Maintenance Complex as each vessel comes in for its regular annual refit."

""V" class vessels (like the Queens of Esquimalt and Saanich, which have already been done) will have six ventilation holes on each side, while the Tsawwassen (Sidney?) class will have three and the Nanaimo (Burnaby?) class two."


As I understood it, the V's and B's were supposed to get a better car deck ventilation system installed. Maybe the Esquimalt and Saanich did get it installed and that's why they removed the vent holes?

Even with the fans running, it's still pretty smelly down at the back of these ships! I've seen deckhands wearing gas masks to unload traffic.

[Airchime]

The Newwest never had the bottom car deck windows, only the little port holes when she had one car deck.

Here is a photo of the New West just before she was lifted. If you look where the "BC Spirit" emblem is....it looks to me like she did have two holes cut in her cardeck before. If memory serves, this outline is still visible on the three B-class ships today.


-- Photo from May/June 1991 issue of Dolphin magazine.

[Ferryman]

One other thing...
Did they completely remove the funnel of the New West when they were lifting her? Because I don't see any funnel at all.

[Scott (Former Account)]

tsawwassenterminal said:

I was flipping through my ferry books the other day, and much to my surprise I noticed that at one time *all* (or atleast the Esq) of the V-Class had main (car) deck windows (that is to say the Esquimalt and Saanich in addition to the Van and Vic).

For no particular reason at all I'm trying to figure out around when and why this was changed.

Examples:
-Several times throughout "Exploring BC's Coast..." (the big, glossy picture book)(atleast I think that's the name; I don't have it with me presently) the Queen of Esquimalt and, I'm fairly sure, the Saanich are shown with main deck windows like we now know as only being on the Vancouver and ex Victoria.

-The contradictory example of this is the full page photo on page 48 of G.&P. Bannerman's 1985 book "The Ships of British Columbia..." showing Tsawwassen terminal from the air. All three berthed ships (Sidney class, V-Class and B-Class) in the photo are in the original pastel blue dogwood paint-scheme, and the V-Class has no main deck windows.

The only conclusion that I can think of is that the main deck windows have been both installed and removed over the years. I guess this adds another dimention when a V-Class in expo scheme is used for trivia.
----------------------------------------------------------------

Another alteration that I've noticed recently is the angled facades leading up to the pilot house and monkey island on all of the V/B-Class ships, as well as the raised funnel (which I've always noticed).

In this photo (from EvergreenFleet.com),
www.evergreenfleet.com/qoesq_03.jpg
you'll notice that it's a streched V/B-Class (Esquimalt, according to the website) without the angled facade or heightened funnel. Personally, I've never seen a pic or heard of the streched V/B-Class not sailing with that facade or heightened funnel (I always thought that the facades and funnel extentions were added, along with widening the interior of the caffeteria and lengthening the aft upper-deck lounge, during the streching process) after their strech. Could this picture be an artist's rendering?

Here is a photo of the Saanich, with the main car deck windows clearly showing...



And here is a photo of the Esquimalt just after having her main car deck windows covered up...

**At the time of the cover-up, parts of the red line were not even painted - as shown in this photo...

[Koastal Karl]

I always thought when I saw photos of the Saanich with the port hole windows that it was misprint and never actually thought she had them before!

[WettCoast]

REgarding the QoEsq and its appearance when it was first stretched [see www.evergreenfleet.com/qoesq_03.jpg] ...

JST said:

Queen of Esquimalt was the first V class vessel to be stretched. It was not initially given the heightened funnel or other cosmetic changes, until after the QoVic was stretched. The Vic was the 1st to get the heightened funnel and changed fencing from wheelhouse back to the funnel.

So the photo is a real one from about 1969. The Victoria was stretched soon thereafter, and not long after that suffered its collision with the Russian Freighter. It was in fact the 'stretched' section of the ship that was sliced into.

The three 'Burnaby' class vessels initially had short funnels. they were heightened at the time of stretching. The Burnaby class vessels were almost identical to the Queens of Saanich & Esquimalt when they were built.

[WettCoast]

Another view of the lifting process on the New Westminster, from 1991. This picture also shows missing funnel and evidence of covered up main car deck openings as discussed above.

Differences in openings may be partly explained by type of platform decks in place on the main car deck. Some of the V-class have complete platform decks, some have none.

[Airchime]

Cool photos Scott.

Do you have any dates for them? Doesn't have to be exact.....maybe a month and a year?

Thanks.

Here is a photo of the Saanich, with the main car deck windows clearly showing...


And here is a photo of the Esquimalt just after having her main car deck windows covered up...
**At the time of the cover-up, parts of the red line were not even painted - as shown in this photo...

[Airchime]

One other thing...
Did they completely remove the funnel of the New West when they were lifting her? Because I don't see any funnel at all.

Atta boy Chris! I figured you of all people would notice that right away! ;D

They took the funnel away for asbestos removal. They probably installed those two engine air intake "boxes" at the same time. The article tells us to keep an eye out for a "new emblem" on the funnel! Ooooo...how exciting!!

FYI: "The project included the removal of the two main engines, reduction gears, propellers and shafts of the vessel. Four new engines are being installed, along with new gearing and controllable pitch propellers, and a new sewage treatment system. The hull is being fitted with sponsons, modified stern, bulbous bow and a second bow thruster."

[bcfcbccsscollector]

airchime said:

Cool photos Scott.

Do you have any dates for them? Doesn't have to be exact.....maybe a month and a year?

Thanks.

Here is a photo of the Saanich, with the main car deck windows clearly showing...


And here is a photo of the Esquimalt just after having her main car deck windows covered up...
**At the time of the cover-up, parts of the red line were not even painted - as shown in this photo...

It has been some time since I rode this route, but if memory serves me right, the ventilataion holes you see are actually not a permanent cover, in fact, they were a canvas like material that could be removed at will. I definitely remember seeing these covering the upper deck holes on V class at one time or another.

In the bottom pic, if you look closely enough, you can see the shadow being thrown onto the cover, right side. If it was welded shut, you wouldn't see this.