WWYouDo:BCFS breaking TC rules

[Retrovision]

If you witnessed a Transport Canada regulation not being observed, what would you do?

I guess what I'm really wondering is, knowing that we love our system, when we punish it, does it improve in the end, or is the threat to it, in this competitive-corporate-capitalist world, too much of a crapshoot?

...Of course you have to take into account the magnitude of the infraction

Cheers,
Graham

[Mike C]

The most I can say is that I figured out what the WW stands for.

If I saw something unsafe, I would probably tell a crew member. And then pick up a safety pamphlet to see that they are actually breaking TC rules. Or visit their website.

[Retrovision]

So then don't goto John Daly of Global television, you're saying?

[Neil]

Could you fill us in on what you're refering to here, Graham?

[Retrovision]

hmm, I guess there wouldn't be a problem with that; it was very much just a techncality, yet still an infraction, as far as I can tell.

First, let's see if you folks can spot it for yourselves

[Low Light Mike]

ok, Mr. Understated, I'll try my luck:

- lack of red/green navigational lights?
- lack of twirling radar thing?
- no red munitions flag flying for a dangerous cargo sailing?
- lack of visible rescue boat?
- 2 blue liferaft thingys on 1 side, but only 1 blue thingy on the other side?
- working on the Sabbath?

[Koastal Karl]

haha I also know but I cant say as I was there that day too!

[Retrovision]

177 said:

If your refering to the DG flag, none of your photos show the bow of the Cap

This is why I posted this comment:

flugelhorn said:

heh, touché.


Of course I realize that I could be missing what I'm looking for; it could be hidden to these views.

[/img][/quote]

[Balfour]

I certainly don't see a red flag flying considering that is a DC sailing.

[Retrovision]

And the prize goes to Jordan.

Cheers.

[Retrovision]

cascade said:

Not so sure on breaking TC rules here. If the "Only" cargo is this - then a the small matter of flying a flag to warn passing ships / people ect...is a very small point.......but if the vessel also took on-board paying "other" passengers - then a rule has been broken.

It is either required by TC or not, and this is not the time to take TC rules lightly.

cascade said:

As for telling / informing a news / media outlet - waste of time - tell BC Ferries or if a safety issue inform a crew member.

(the comment of mine being referred to was meant jokingly, btw)


...I'd suggest that everyone consider calling and asking a local news agency if they have a camera crew available, if the situation warrants it.

That, however, is speaking of more extreme cases; this situation is more a matter of a crew taking a relaxed view on the continuity of the observation of all TC rules, and the necessity for that continuity.

[Retrovision]

So many rules in life, and so many not enforced, and, granted, for good reason. One thing that I have been reminded by this, though, is a longstanding personal-policy that I've had for years: (Generally) If there isn't a sign saying otherwise, I can plead ignorance, and "get away with murder," so to speak.

This is primarily only an issue with me because of the hypocracy that Karl and I witnessed, and because I would rather that hypocracy not be systemic. The crew at the time was quite diligent in keeping up the red tape when it came to the 'common-sense' measure of barring other passengers from boarding the DC sailing, but didn't have the integrity to uphold the 'common-sense' measure of paying the respect due to all other mariners on the warter by physically showing the danger of their cargo. Why would it make more 'common sense' to bar passengers from a DC sailing than it would to actually - physically - warn those in charge of what is the real primary threat to a DC sailing, other ships, of the danger?

[Neil]

cascade said:

Another way to look at it - is what rule do I forget / bend and what rule do I follow ? Who makes that choice.

Then you have the person - who follows every - bloody rule in the book and makes your life hell.

Rules are here to make out life safe ? But I guess if you think back say 50 years - we just didn't have so many rules and life didn't seem to be any worst off - did it?

Yes the world has in some ways become more dangerous - cars are faster - but they stop better don't they...so one side sometime equals out the other... This is something we could debate for years....

Good points. Laws protect us, but do we really want to fine all the jay-walkers?

[jjr]

Well they were flying a red flag ... it just also had some white in it as well :-) Given the safety record of BC Ferries in the last while, maybe flying the Maple Leaf is enough to warn other mariners to give the vessel a wide berth.

[Retrovision]

I think that we're partly trying to make the same point. I just wonder why the Crew had such mixed values: Having common sense - realizing that some rules are discretionary, over-done fail-safe measures - and yet not extending the spirit of that 'common sense' to clearing a couple of strands of red tape for the convenience of a handful of passengers.. err umm, "customers".

So in this case is it a good demonstration of how we feel more comfortable with breaking the rules when it doesn't make us look bad, but are more reluctant when it does? Seems a little vain to me... My point: If someone even notices the lack of a Dangerous Cargo flag, they will also likely know how seemingly frivilous the rule about it is; if a passenger.. err, umm "customer" notices a handful of un-unifomed people getting off a DC sailing and knows the rule, they might complain, and then "There will be hell to pay".

...In one instance of relaxing the rules, the crew might look bad, and in the other, no one's the wiser. Who's to judge which of these two rules sould be followed, when the decision as to whether or not to follow them is being made based on vanity?

[CN2972South]

tsawwassenterminal said:

...I'd suggest that everyone consider calling and asking a local news agency if they have a camera crew available, if the situation warrants it.

And pray to god BC Ferries and Transport Canada don't find out it was you that brought in the media, rather then approach them about the issue.

[Political Incorrectness]

It is not necessary to get the media involved unless BCFS does not do anything about it, nor does Transport Canada.

[Doug]

Some rules must be bent from time to time...like the speed limit in some areas. The gov't knows people will drive faster than the limit, so they set it low and have it fairly flexible.

[Mike C]

<cough50KM/HKITSONPKWYcough>

[Balfour]

I've even seen a cop doing 70km/h in a 50 zone, something I do all the time, never been caught *knocks on wood*

[177]

If your refering to the DG flag, none of your photos show the bow of the Cap (pass. deck) where it's located. It should also be noted that the Master advises Traffic Services that the vessel is on a D.G. Sailing and if the flag was not availabe would advise VTS of this.