docking at duke

[Neil]

I've gone through Duke Point countless times over the years, but before last week I've never taken a 'fill-in' V. I was surprised to see the Esquimalt dock 'stern to' there, since it was the Duke Point based vessel. Do V's that are filling in for the Alberni always dock stern to at Duke, and if so, is it to avoid backing in at Tsawwassen?

[Balfour]

I'd say your assumption is correct but of course I'm no expert.

[Scott (Former Account)]

hornbyguy said:

is it to avoid backing in at Tsawwassen?

Bingo...

V's while in service rarely will dock bow first at Duke Point, Departure Bay or Swartz Bay. The only exception to this seems to be if the ship is undergoing work while at the terminal for an extended amount of time.

[Low Light Mike]

A good puzzle. The "home terminal" likely doesn't have much to do with the issue at all. I think it's as simple as this for single-enders:
- all dock bow-in at HSB and Tsa.
- all dock stern-to at Swartz, Duke, DepBay, and Langdale.

I have thought about this before. The logic is likely that Tsawwassen and Horseshoe Bay both set the rule, because of limitations at each of these terminals. ie. it would be difficult for a ship to dock stern-to at Horeseshoe Bay.....and same at Tsawwassen. This is likely for different reasons: Horseshoe Bay is too confined to allow a turnaround maneuver. Tsawwassen is likely too open and storm-unprotected to again allow for the delicate maneuver of turning & docking.

I suppose my premise is that it's easier to back-up upon leaving, than to back-up to arrive....as the arrival needs to be much more precise than the departure.

I suppose it would be interesting if there was a route that had poor turnaround space at both terminals.

[Doug]

flugelhorn said:

A good puzzle. The "home terminal" likely doesn't have much to do with the issue at all. I think it's as simple as this for single-enders:
- all dock bow-in at HSB and Tsa.
- all dock stern-to at Swartz, Duke, DepBay, and Langdale.

I have thought about this before. The logic is likely that Tsawwassen and Horseshoe Bay both set the rule, because of limitations at each of these terminals. ie. it would be difficult for a ship to dock stern-to at Horeseshoe Bay.....and same at Tsawwassen. This is likely for different reasons: Horseshoe Bay is too confined to allow a turnaround maneuver. Tsawwassen is likely too open and storm-unprotected to again allow for the delicate maneuver of turning & docking.

I suppose my premise is that it's easier to back-up upon leaving, than to back-up to arrive....as the arrival needs to be much more precise than the departure.

I suppose it would be interesting if there was a route that had poor turnaround space at both terminals.

You are correct if I recall what an employee told us on the forum a while back.

[Koastal Karl]

Dont forget Little River which is the opposite as the Burnaby docks bow to at Little River the island side and in Powell River she docks stern to.

[Low Light Mike]

Some further thoughts on single-ender docking:

It seems like some stern-to terminals are more "natural" than others for the ship's turnaround & back-in maneuver.

ie. terminals that are natural for easy stern-in docking would be:
- Swartz Bay for the Spirit berth
- Westview
- Langdale main berth
- Long Harbour
- Heriot Bay
The above seem more natural, as they allow the ship to simply glide by, and back-up. There is no full 180-degree turn needed.

Terminals that have tougher stern-to docking maneuvers would be:
- Swartz Bay (the V-class berths)
- Departure Bay
- Duke Point
- Saltery Bay
What would the toughest be? Perhaps Saltery Bay, because of the tight confines. The Q-Tsawwassen can do it, but would a longer Burnaby or Nanaimo be able to take the same dance-route to turnaround and dock at Saltery Bay?

Yeah, this is turning into a bit of an essay.....

I think that the direction of the berth, relative to the shoreline plays a big factor in this issue. A berth that's parallel to the shore is much easier to dock stern-to into.....ie Long Harbour, Swartz spirits. A berth that's perpendicular to the shore is tougher, ie. Departure Bay or Saltery Bay.

Duke Point is an anomaly, as it's berth is parallel to the shore, but the ship approaches from the wrong direction, forcing it to do a 180-degree turn, instead of just gliding by & backing-in.

-------------------------

Another issue is whether there are some berths/terminals that are harder for a double-ended vessel to dock at. My guess would be the main berth at Langdale for a double-ender arriving, as the Surrey needs to swing wide and come around into the berth (think about it, and you'll know what I mean, in spite of my poor articulation on this matter). It seems far more natural for a single-ender to dock stern-to at Langdale's main berth, than for a double ender to make the sharp turn to get in.

[Low Light Mike]

karl said:

Dont forget Little River which is the opposite as the Burnaby docks bow to at Little River the island side and in Powell River she docks stern to.

aha, and it it would appear that the reason is that the Westview terminal allows for easier stern-to docking......because it's berth is parallel to the shoreline.

[Coastal Canuck]

OK when I was waiting for the 5:45pm Queen of New Westminster from Duke Point to Tsawwassen last summer what the Queen of New west did was go past the terminal and then turn around and do a slide past back in thing instead of what they do at Saltery bay of just turning around and backing in!

[Low Light Mike]

Extreamme's observation is made possible by the unique geography at Duke Point, where the channel is wide enough for the ship to sail past the berth, turn around, and then come-alongside from the opposite direction.

At places like Saltery Bay, this is impossible as the berths are in an enclosed bay, so you can't sail on by............(Queen of Oak Bay tried that maneuver at Horseshoe Bay in June/July 2005).