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Post by Mac Write on Sept 12, 2007 0:55:45 GMT -8
looking at this video of a ferry in P.E.I. it seems they have a car deck below the main car deck for under-height cars. Would this work for BC Ferries (could really help on Route 1, 2, 3 with under-height waits). Yes we would need new ferries, but is it a good idea?
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Post by Shane on Sept 12, 2007 5:56:10 GMT -8
That's actually a really good idea, BCF should use it for some of their new ships.
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Post by Gunny on Sept 12, 2007 7:35:44 GMT -8
Does the Norrad have this? I thought it did (although I didn't see them use it, perhaps because the time to load > the need for it?
Gunther
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Post by Northern Exploration on Sept 12, 2007 9:28:21 GMT -8
Yes the NorAd has this. If you scroll back through the NorAd thread it is an underheight area in the forward part of the ship. It is reached by a hatch and ramp that closes when the ship loads the main car deck. BC Ferries doesn't use it at all. I don't recall all the reasons but it was discussed at length. I do remember that it was discussed starting a cargo service in containers like those used in the airline industry. Most of the year the capacity is not missed.
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Mill Bay
Voyager 
Long Suffering Bosun
Posts: 2,887 
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Post by Mill Bay on Sept 12, 2007 11:37:35 GMT -8
I remember watching a documentary about the world's largest car ferry, the Ulysses of Irish ferries... and it has extra decks all over the place, even below the waterline. I was trying to find deck plans for it, but haven't been able to so far. www.ferryphotos.co.uk/images/ulysses.jpgModified due to hot-linking. Please host images using a site such as Photobucket, TinyURL, etc... |
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Post by Northern Exploration on Sept 12, 2007 15:39:52 GMT -8
Yes I saw that too. It was a great show on Discovery. The semi's even go up internal ramps. One day I would like to travel on her. Really like a cruise ship with cars below.
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Nick
Voyager
Chief Engineer - Queen of Richmond
Posts: 2,080
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Post by Nick on Sept 12, 2007 15:54:16 GMT -8
The NorAd has what they call the "garage", and it has room for about 20 honda civic sized cars. The reason BCF doesn't use it is because they would have to have BCF employees drive the vehicles on since the only access to the space aside from the ramp is by ladder. (TC will not allow passengers to climb a ladder, not to mention who wants to climb a ladder to get to the pax decks?) Loading time is also a factor.
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Post by Political Incorrectness on Sept 12, 2007 16:36:07 GMT -8
That's actually a really good idea, BCF should use it for some of their new ships. Uh Shane, you may want to take a look at the load times. Second of all, with all that extra weight, that may not be a great idea. Does it cost more to put in a car deck below the waterline? |
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Post by Ian on Sept 12, 2007 16:56:25 GMT -8
Our ferries are not large enough to put a deck under the waterline. It makes no sense. Plus it would increase the draft of the ship.
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Post by Balfour on Sept 12, 2007 17:05:57 GMT -8
Another problem to consider is that these kind of car decks are slow to load.
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Post by Ferryman on Sept 12, 2007 17:52:37 GMT -8
Ok, to mention that it would slow down the length of time to load for a 5th time....  Passengers also like to go down to their cars to have a rest, or to get away from the crowds. I'd imagine that TC wouldn't allow this, due to the fact of the deck being below the waterline. So if these types of decks were built on future Ferries, it would end up being a waste, because BC Ferries would end up not bothering to use these decks due to a flood of complaints. As mentioned above, it would increase the draft of the ship. This leads me to think it might affect the maneuverablity while transitting Active Pass, or any sort of tight turns perhaps. Though I'm no expert at the physics of a ships hull cutting through the water (yet), it just seems like a logical theory to me. |
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Post by Mac Write on Sept 12, 2007 18:37:08 GMT -8
I remember watching a documentary about the world's largest car ferry, the Ulysses of Irish ferries... and it has extra decks all over the place, even below the waterline. I was trying to find deck plans for it, but haven't been able to so far. www.ferryphotos.co.uk/images/ulysses.jpgModified due to hot-linking. Please host images using a site such as Photobucket, TinyURL, etc..."Deck 2" is for trailers and is below "Deck 3" the lower ramp deck. That is one killer ferry. I stayed up to 4AM once to watch it in full. Any photos of the Norads "garage" deck? |
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Nick
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Chief Engineer - Queen of Richmond
Posts: 2,080
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Post by Nick on Sept 12, 2007 21:09:48 GMT -8
Unfortunately, when i was on it this summer the chief engineer wouldn't let me down there, (the one part of the ship I didn't see.) so no photos.
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Post by Northern Exploration on Sept 13, 2007 6:31:20 GMT -8
On the NorAd I don't believe the load times would be an issue because the ferry has generous turnaround times at the ports and often sits overnight on the Port Hardy to Prince Rupert run. However, no access to the vehicles would be had at all while underway due to regulations. The hatch to the lower deck probably is waterproof and would need to stay sealed while underway if you ignore the obvious lack of passenger friendly access. And for the vast majority of the year the extra capacity for cars is simply not needed. Especially since she is destined for the Queen Charlotte run once the NorEx arrives. Most of the ferries that have lower decks run in deeper waters and draw more water. If you have a lower car deck that means the engines and other mechanical equipment will have to be below that, making a much bigger hull. The more hull and deeper draft make for less efficiency and speed. I think that is the main problem for BC Ferries in some of the restricted waters they sail in. Loading and unloading would take longer and a stalled car would be more of a problem if the deck was height restricted. I don't believe it would add that much however to the load and unload times anymore than gallery decks do. But they would have to have much better passenger access. The PEI ferry is of an older generation and I don't know if she will even meet the new regulations that will come into effect. Someone more knowledgeable would have to comment on that. This whole discussion may be mute if below waterline car deck are verbotten. After posting I looked up the ferry in question. www.peiferry.com/the_ship/ As you can see it is the MV Confederation. Her speed is only 14 knots. I believe she is also ice rated but not to the highest levels. |
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Mill Bay
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Post by Mill Bay on Sept 13, 2007 9:29:13 GMT -8
Modified due to hot-linking. Please host images using a site such as Photobucket, TinyURL, etc... Oops... that was my fault I guess for not reading the rules, but you guys missed one other post where I did that without knowing... I just went back and modified it. But on a few of these threads I've noticed if you right-click on an image, you will get a direct url back to an actual website. |
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Post by Low Light Mike on Sept 13, 2007 9:38:16 GMT -8
Modified due to hot-linking. Please host images using a site such as Photobucket, TinyURL, etc... Oops... that was my fault I guess for not reading the rules, but you guys missed one other post where I did that without knowing... I just went back and modified it. But on a few of these threads I've noticed if you right-click on an image, you will get a direct url back to an actual website. Our stamp-out-hotlinking crusade is new. In fact, I'm one of the worst offenders, and I've been penalized with pink as a result. But seriously, I'm having to change my ways with displaying IMG photos in my posts. |
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Post by Retrovision on Sept 14, 2007 12:38:49 GMT -8
Here is an edited copy of the Northern Adventure's schematic as the Sonia showing the aforementioned below-main-deck vehicle deck towards the bow, giving her a split-level-house type of setup along with the half circle gallery-type deck above within the Main Vehicle Deck space  |
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Post by herrbrinkmann on Sept 15, 2007 21:25:01 GMT -8
A deck below the main deck always brings extra capacity but slows the loading/unloading. In addition this cargo area is quite expensive, because you need a watertight flap which keeps this lower hold sealed. To have or not to have depends on the needs of the customer. On the NorEx there will not be any lower hold. FSG managed to get all required capacity on one deck. If you have a lower deck, one has to compact all the machinery stuff in abt. 1/3 of the vessel. See e.g. www.fsg-ship.de/2product/1prod/pdf/ro-pax_2400_650.pdf?size=479KBAs mentioned before by someone, access to cargo in lower hold is absolutely forbidden during voyage, because this compartment must be sealed all the time, which could be inconvenient to passengers. I personally think that the idea of having an under height deck below the main deck, as seen on the Sonia-NorAd-sketch- sounds expensive. If you do not have so many trucks, the best way to gain more car capacity is to install hoistable or fixed intermediate decks. These also can be retrofitted, like on the Coastal class - the main deck is foreseen for retrofitting of car decks. |
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Mill Bay
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Post by Mill Bay on Sept 20, 2007 16:59:40 GMT -8
In reference to my mention of Irish Ferries MV Ulysses above, I was recently able to record the same documentary look at the operation of the Irish Ferries newest and largest car carrying ferry in the world.
So if anybody is truly interested, I can make a DVD copy and bring it along to pass around whenever I can make it out to a group trip again.
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