|
|
Post by hwy19man on Jul 28, 2007 23:42:20 GMT -8
Looks like the causeway is one big campsite tonight. One guy with his big camper is camping out at Departure Bay it seems. I guess the overheights are full. There's also a line of cars waiting to board the Langdale ferry at Horseshoe Bay it seems. Do they let people stay overnight if they miss the last ferry? I remember a few years ago in the summer that our family counted over 100 vehicles outside of TSA. It was actually quite fun with people barbequing their dinners at 230h. Police officers even came out of their cars and chatted with many of the people for about 30 minutes |
|
|
|
Post by Retrovision on Jul 28, 2007 23:43:48 GMT -8
BCFSI, instigators of good times since 2003 ?  
|
|
|
|
Post by Retrovision on Jul 28, 2007 23:47:36 GMT -8
And how about this thread, eh? It's been read 1000+ times already since being started - that rules as far as I'm concerned |
|
|
|
Post by Airchime on Jul 29, 2007 0:14:20 GMT -8
Hey guys,
Not much to add this late in the day, but I thought I'd chime in because I was at Tsawwassen when all this was happening.
The New West had actually sailed away at 3, but was called back. At around 1730 the New West and Alberni where side-by-side in the terminal. Then the Alberni left.
When the SoBC left she was fully loaded with cars. No commercial or overheight traffic. They checked the Gulf Islands traffic first before doing all the route 1 overheights.
We made it onto the Saanich at 2130 and BCFS was kind enough to pay for everyones meal!!
I heard the SoVI was doing another run after us to clear all the traffic out of Tsawwassen.
There was already about ten cars lined up at the ticket booth at Swartz Bay when we arrived just after 2300.
I'm off to bed now.
|
|
|
|
Post by Retrovision on Jul 29, 2007 0:15:03 GMT -8
Great to hear. I commend you, BCFS, for keeping-up the integrity of your word. |
|
|
|
Post by hwy19man on Jul 29, 2007 0:26:36 GMT -8
Hey guys, Not much to add this late in the day, but I thought I'd chime in because I was at Tsawwassen when all this was happening. The New West had actually sailed away at 3, but was called back. At around 1730 the New West and Alberni where side-by-side in the terminal. Then the Alberni left. When the SoBC left she was fully loaded with cars. No commercial or overheight traffic. They checked the Gulf Islands traffic first before doing all the route 1 overheights. We made it onto the Saanich at 2130 and BCFS was kind enough to pay for everyones meal!! I heard the SoVI was doing another run after us to clear all the traffic out of Tsawwassen. There was already about ten cars lined up at the ticket booth at Swartz Bay when we arrived just after 2300. I'm off to bed now. Did the SBC take any traffic at SWB back to TSA? |
|
|
|
Post by Northern Exploration on Jul 29, 2007 6:35:34 GMT -8
I was having a big bbq at my place last night and fell into bed exhausted without turning the tv on. I was surprized to see a late breaking story in the morning's paper about the bomb threat. Pretty good of them to get it in quickly despite the fact that the Sunday paper is the earliest one to go to press and often misses late breaking stories. The three hour time difference probably helped. There is actually a shortage of bomb sniffing dogs. They are incredibly expensive to train. Many dogs wash out of the process and become regular police dogs or other dogs with jobs . Since 9/11 they have greatly increased the training of dogs - but as you can imagine it takes some time to ramp up. The cost of having a dog and its handlers is far beyond openning a can of Alpo. It costs up to $60,000 to raise, train and place a seeing eye or helper dog. Bomb sniffing dogs have ongoing costs because they are constantly being testing and retrained to find new types of explosives, the salary and expenses of their handler who also has specialized and ongoing training, etc. So I guess that having dogs spread out in location where one can get somewhere quickly is a good thing. I was involved with the pre-openning testing of the New Terminal One at Toronto's Pearson Airport. The bomb sniffing dog was there and at the public previews. Someone from Air Canada said the dog and handler can cost close to a million dollars over the working life of the dog. At another event the dog handler had someone hide the sock like training device they use in people's purses, in their coat pocket, or even had them sit on it. The dog found them every time. I guess that is going to be the cost of doing business in the travel and transportation industry from here on. |
|
|
|
Post by WettCoast on Jul 29, 2007 8:29:06 GMT -8
And how about this thread, eh? It's been read 1000+ times already since being started - that rules as far as I'm concerned There is no doubt that this bomb threat has generated an impressive amount of traffic here on this thread. However, I checked out the QotN Sinks thread and you have to go part way down page 7 before the date rolls over to March 23rd. |
|
|
|
Post by Political Incorrectness on Jul 29, 2007 8:31:53 GMT -8
Here is where it all started with post #347
|
|
|
|
Post by Curtis on Jul 29, 2007 9:52:47 GMT -8
There was so much excitement yesterday I didn't even realize there was a bomb threat. I was out most of the day.
|
|
Mill Bay
Voyager 
Long Suffering Bosun
Posts: 2,887 
|
Post by Mill Bay on Jul 29, 2007 13:23:22 GMT -8
I'm with Curtis on this one...  Was in and out yesterday doing other stuff... I didn't even hear about it until 11:30 at night, and by then this thread was pretty full already... |
|
Mill Bay
Voyager
Long Suffering Bosun
Posts: 2,887
|
Post by Mill Bay on Jul 29, 2007 13:48:07 GMT -8
Ferries back on schedule after bomb threat
No bomb found at Tsawwassen; traffic heavy today as backlog of travellers continue journeys
Matthew Kruchak
Times Colonist and CanWest News Service
Saturday, July 28, 2007
B.C. Ferries is mostly sailing on schedule again today after a bomb threat on Saturday led to the cancellation of 21 sailings between Tsawwassen and Vancouver Island.
Thousands of travellers were forced to wait for hours before they could board ferries at terminals near Victoria, Vancouver and Nanaimo.
The threat was aimed at Tsawwassen and police conducted an extensive, hours-long search there on Saturday but did not find a bomb.
Traffic today has been heavy on routes between the mainland and the Island as a backlog of travellers continued their journeys.
B.C. Ferries is offering a $50,000 reward for information leading to the conviction of those who made the threat.
Delta police received the bomb threat about 3:30 p.m., said B.C. Ferries president David Hahn. The call was made from a Coquitlam Centre mall payphone from a male using a "Middle Eastern" accent, he said.
Police felt the threat was "credible" and a decision was made to halt service in and out of Tsawwassen.
Service resumed around 9 p.m. at Tsawwassen for people already at the terminal. There was also a 10:16 p.m. sailing from Swartz Bay to Tsawwassen.
When the threat came in, the Queen of New Westminster, destined for Duke Point, had just left and had to turn back. The Queen of Vancouver, headed to Swartz Bay, was being loaded. Passengers were evacuated and bomb-sniffing dogs were sent to the scene.
An unattended backpack on the deck of Queen of New Westminster was the focus of concern, but RCMP believed the incident was broader than just the bag on deck, Hahn said.
Both ships, including every vehicle on board, had to be searched before they could sail, he said. Each ship has the capacity to carry more than 385 vehicles and 1,300 passengers and crew.
Another 1,000 cars in the Tsawwassen compound had to be searched before they were allowed to leave the terminal, he said.
"A lot of people have had their nights absolutely ruined, just ruined." They endured "God-awful long waits," Hahn said, estimating that between 10,000 and 20,000 people were affected by the threat.
"This type of nonsense has to stop, and if it means us going out and offering rewards to catch some of these guys, then that's what we'll do," he said.
Sailings between Horseshoe Bay in West Vancouver and Departure Bay at Nanaimo continued roughly on schedule on Saturday and picked up some of the traffic from the other terminals. An additional late-night sailing was added at Departure Bay and Horseshoe Bay.
Copyright © 2007 CanWest Interactive, a division of CanWest MediaWorks Publications, Inc.. All rights reserved.
|
|
|
|
Post by EGfleet on Jul 29, 2007 14:17:47 GMT -8
Heck, this even made the news down here...that hardly ever happens. www.komotv.com/news/8797307.htmlAnd at least they got a photo of an actual B.C. Ferry! Last week when they posted the story about the Steel Electrics, they put up a photo of a Jumbo. I emailed them and, um...corrected them gently and noticed a little while later they'd pulled the photo. ;D |
|
|
|
Post by Hardy on Jul 29, 2007 19:14:13 GMT -8
The supply of dogs seems adequate to me, and so does their current deployment. Spread them out so you can get one to any area fast. Then if you need more dog-power you can fly them in. Granted for the Olympics Vancouver will need more, but surely these can be rented on a short term basis. Vancouver doesn’t need a large force of dogs to deal with situations like this that only arise once every few years. The current system has the local dog taking care of the immediate danger immediately. As for searching everyone in the compound that was just being prudent, not what I see as something that needs immediate attention; those people can wait. I am not sure that it is, to be honest. Given the size of the GVRD in terms of both geography and population ... I cannot say for certain, but are BOMB sniffing dogs only good for that single purpose? Or can they be used for other uses as well? I know that you have regular K9 units for tracking suspects and flushing them out, that you have drug sniffing dogs, and arson dogs. Are these all mutually EXCLUSIVE? Or are some of these trained the same? I would think that arson dogs and bomb dogs could be dual-use? Again, I am not a trainer nor do I have a lot of experience with dogs or their handling. Perhaps someone else can shed some light on this? |
|
|
|
Post by Hardy on Jul 29, 2007 19:20:15 GMT -8
Looks like the causeway is one big campsite tonight. One guy with his big camper is camping out at Departure Bay it seems. I guess the overheights are full. There's also a line of cars waiting to board the Langdale ferry at Horseshoe Bay it seems. Do they let people stay overnight if they miss the last ferry? If you are inside the compound, you have to leave the compound -- either on a ferry, or refund your money and leave the terminal. You are not allowed to remain in the terminal when it is "closed". I have been there, and issued a credit voucher for an am sailing and told to park outside the gates (trust me, this sucked more than I can describe in words, but so it goes). |
|
|
|
Post by Northern Exploration on Jul 29, 2007 20:17:42 GMT -8
I just saw on CP24 the City TV news channel that they had "Bomb threat on Nova Scotia to Newfoundland Ferry causes delays." I just searched and couldn't find a news item on it. Although I looked at Marine Atlantic's website. No news releases section. One of the ferries is delayed and one is rescheduled. No explanation or commentary. So maybe some morron saw the news on the BC Ferries and did a copy cat call. If so I hope they find the person and make him/her pay restitution for the lost wages, costs and inconvenience for the passengers. A public apology on TV. And the usual legal ramifications  . I am just in that kind of mood. |
|
|
|
Post by Northern Exploration on Jul 29, 2007 20:30:15 GMT -8
The dogs are usually trained for just one area. For example there is a very cute beagle at the Toronto Airport who just searches for hidden food items such as fruit and meats. He works for Canada Customs . There is a beautiful golden retriever in US Customs who searches for drugs. The one bomb sniffing dog I met at the airport was Peel Regional Police and was a German Shepherd. The fire sniffing dogs work for the fire department and are trained to look for accelerants. There are quite a few the dog is trained to smell. So there are jurisdictional differences. I wouldn't think they would multi-task some of the dogs at regular police duties/forces for crowd control, tracking criminals/lost children, and bomb sniffing etc. Especially since their handlers are often tasked to a very specific unit. ie. bomb threats/disposal. The tracking dogs are trained to be agressive on command and defend their handler at all costs. Bomb dogs are trained to search for a scent and much of their training is to make finding that odour fun and for a reward usally their chew toy and praise. |
|
|
|
Post by Hardy on Jul 29, 2007 21:59:00 GMT -8
I value the insight on this, and this is more or less along the lines that I thought. How different are accelarants as compared to bomb material? I realize that the ways to deal with either is quite a bit different, and that the handlers are a large part of the equation, 50% of the team as it were.
I completely get the "specialized tool for a specific job" approach; and being task specific means a high degree of competence in the given field.
The shortages of trained personnel and animals will only continue to be spotlighted. As you point out, cross training an animal is much harder and has more pitfalls than doing so with their human counterparts.
|
|
|
|
Post by Northern Exploration on Jul 30, 2007 17:25:00 GMT -8
I see what you mean Hardy. Gasoline could be used as an accelerant and a bomb material both. A lot of gasoline is needed though and usually quite obvious. I am not sure but I read that gasoline is most dangerous when it is a vapour. Hence an almost empty gas can in a hot garage can be dangerous. You would likely know more about that than I do given your line of work. Most bomb sniffing dogs are trained to search for smaller explosives used to detonate something bigger. IE Plastic explosives or TNT etc. Or in the case of Oklahoma fertilizer or ammonia. I don't know much about the area just more about the dogs. I toured a guide dog school in Rochester, Michigan and they reviewed the temperments they look for in dogs to perform various tasks. Usually quite different personalities. Someone in the group asked about failed police dogs ( ie. ones that were too friendly) and whether they were suitable. She also asked about race dogs such as whippets and greyhounds and if they would be good. The tour guide was getting tired of her constant questions - most of which were slightly off topic. Since he already said twice that they only pick puppies with the right personality to start with and start young, he answered here by saying that Greyhounds were only used for blind people who want to run races. She was quiet for a moment while she pondered the answer until she realized he was being a smart ass. We tried very hard not to laugh but we all did. |
|
|
|
Post by Hardy on Jul 30, 2007 17:50:28 GMT -8
I wasn't going to mention anything about gasoline or fertilizer or anything of the like, as if someone was SERIOUS about actually blowing up a ferry, you don't need much of a bomb to do so, using common items (even though they are classed as dangerous goods) would not be very difficult to do at all, either inside a small camper or a larger commercial vehicle.
And the scary thing is, there is not any kind of feasible security measure that can prevent this.
For example, and this is the scary part, although it can be researched easily on the internet --- 1000 lbs of ammonium nitrate fertilizer, 50 gallons of diesel fuel and a SINGLE blasting cap. OK City was slightly larger than that but not by much .... it levelled a city block and left a huge crater in the ground. What would this do to the cardeck of the Alberni, showers or not?
|
|
|
|
Post by Hardy on Jul 30, 2007 18:02:19 GMT -8
A lot of gasoline is needed though and usually quite obvious. I am not sure but I read that gasoline is most dangerous when it is a vapour. Hence an almost empty gas can in a hot garage can be dangerous. You would likely know more about that than I do given your line of work. Gasoline by itself makes a horrible bomb, unless you just want a big movie-style fireball. As the "fuse" for a larger explosion though, it works well. Just about any fuel is more volatile as a vapour. In liquid form, they support combustion better, but as a vapour, the explosive component is magnified exponentially -- hence fuel injectors in your car motor - they vapourize the fuel. And you are entirely correct, am empty gas can is more dangerous than a full one, explosive potential wise. It is downright scary what you can do with common ingredients. My uncle is a farmer, and we routinely blasted stumps and boulders with fertilizer bombs (same as the OK city bomb). 2litre pop bottle of diesel and agricultural fertilizer took care of car sized stumps easily, and boulders the size of smart cars got fragmented enough that one man could move the biggest piece! Remember that a highway tractor trailer unit has, on average, twin 60 gallon diesel tanks .... 250 litres. Diesel burns more than it explodes, unless vapourized, but diesel burns well once ignited. How many tractor trailers on an average sailing? A small molatov cocktail can be easily be built using a Snapple bottle. Set off one tractor trailer. Or load up a mini van (no windows) with common propane tanks and don't declare them as dangerous goods. It's not hard to come up with a nightmare scenario for inflicting mass casualties ...... |
|
|
|
Post by Low Light Mike on Jul 30, 2007 19:48:48 GMT -8
CKNW newstory: www.cknw.com/news/news_local.cfm?cat=7428654912&rem=71185&red=80165423aPBIny&wids=410&gi=1&gm=news_local.cfm================== Actions of certain customers dipleases BC Ferries president Jul, 30 2007 - 3:20 PM VANCOUVER/CKNW(AM980) - As BC Ferries and police continue to investigate Saturday's bomb threat that shut down the Tsawwassen terminal, the president of the company isn't happy with the behaviour of a small percentage of ferry customers in response to the inconvenience. Speaking on the Bill Good Show on CKNW, David Hahn says while the vast majority of travelers were very understanding, a handful caused a number of problems when placed on alternate vessels to get to their destinations. "We even had somebody put rags down the pipes in the washroom that caused the sewage treatment to back up on sunday morning and delay the Coquitlam for the rest of the day Sunday by an hour and a half as we had to clean that mess up." Hahn says other unruly passengers took advantage of free food offered by BC ferries, ordering large amounts to eat and drink and then leaving the items untouched. =========== |
|
Koastal Karl
Voyager
Been on every BC Ferry now!!!!!
Posts: 7,747
|
Post by Koastal Karl on Jul 30, 2007 20:08:47 GMT -8
It was the Cowichan not the Coquitlam that had the sewage problem. We were wondering what the problem was. It did make the Coquitlam and Oak Bay to late throughout the day yesterday!
Some passengers piss me off just like the stupid people and their kids last night on the Oak Bay who were jumping around on the seats in front of us and staring at us and looking at what we were doing and just annoying us and the parents were doing nothing about it.
As far as unrulely passengers that pisses me off cause it is not like BC Ferries did this on purpose. I know I would pissed to but would people rather get blown up by a real bomb or be inconvienanced cause they had to take another route or got delayed!
|
|
|
|
Post by BrianWilliams on Jul 30, 2007 20:53:04 GMT -8
A few thoughts:
1) A disgruntled 19-yr old boy whose girlfriend was going back to Victoria could be "the terrorist" - hoping to disrupt her trip.
2) A whacko of any age might call 9-1-1 just to watch the media frenzy and p*ss off a few thousand people.
3) A real terrorist might try this, to observe our preparation for an unannounced bombing later.
I believe 1 or 2 are most likely. I strongly urge British Columbians and BCF to ignore this. Please, make no new policies that restrict the flow of passengers on BCF.
By all means, BC Ferries, be vigilant. And be aware that a real threat won't be an "abandoned backpack", but more likely a commercial vehicle like the Oklahoma City bomb truck.
Why here? Usually-rational CBC Radio's local and national responses to the BCF story are - "It's the 2010 Olympics!"
Aww, c'mon. The more we fret and obsess about an international event, the more attention we attract - some of it unwanted.
Terrorists could bomb Vancouver's SkyTrain, the Seabus, Pacific Centre Mall, the Second Narrows Bridge or transit's busy B-Line anytime. It is unlikely, and effective preventative measures we take would hurt us badly.
|
|
|
|
Post by Hardy on Jul 30, 2007 20:56:28 GMT -8
This (as well as other) incidents go to prove that COMMON sense and COMMON courtesy are really indeed not so common. Sure it was a piss-off regarding the delays. poopoo happens. As was stated, BCFS did not plan for this inconvenience. Did they respond the best that they could? Perhaps not, but luckily this was not the real thing and there is room to learn and fine tune procedures. Could they have communicated better to those involved? May not have been their decision to make, once the RCMP took over the situation. Does Hahn have reason to be mad? Damn right he does. What idiot would think that sabotaging the sewage system would be a potential gain to them? Sounds about as immature as a grade 'skool' prank. And ordering mountains of food? Good gawd, I grew up poor -- never mind staving people in Africa or anything!!  I wengt to bed hungry more nights than not when I was growing up. I know the value of food. Even now, in my mid-30's, there are several times when money is tight and I am eating MR NOODLES for dinner after a 15 hour shift, cuz that is what is left in the pantry. Smarten the hell up. By all means, order more to eat than you would if you were paying for it yourself -- but don't let your eyes be bigger than your appetite. By god, if I ever found someone ordering food just to waste it and not even touch it, I would bloody well confront them right then and there -- I don't care if it was a CEO or an 80 year old granny. Waste is waste and wanton waste is inexcusable. |
|
. I am just in that kind of mood.
I wengt to bed hungry more nights than not when I was growing up. I know the value of food. Even now, in my mid-30's, there are several times when money is tight and I am eating MR NOODLES for dinner after a 15 hour shift, cuz that is what is left in the pantry. Smarten the hell up. By all means, order more to eat than you would if you were paying for it yourself -- but don't let your eyes be bigger than your appetite. By god, if I ever found someone ordering food just to waste it and not even touch it, I would bloody well confront them right then and there -- I don't care if it was a CEO or an 80 year old granny. Waste is waste and wanton waste is inexcusable.