|
|
Post by Scott on May 18, 2007 19:00:12 GMT -8
There is a lot of talk of possible flooding basically everywhere in the province due to the extremely high snow pack this winter. Most of the discussion revolves around dikes and possible damage to homes and farms and infrastructure. When they dig a little deeper, they start worrying about sewage plants being flooded, the major rail and highway systems being blocked off, power being out for days, the problem of moving livestock, long term damage to blueberry plants, etc. When it comes to shipping, there hasn't been much talk.. just the possibility of the Albion Ferries being shut down.
But I was just thinking of how flooding might affect the ferries. There's the unlikely possibility of Richmond and Delta being flooded I suppose, which would sort of cut off Tsawwassen from most of the GVRD. But what I was mostly thinking is that with all the volume of water coming down the rivers and streams into the Strait, even if there is no flooding, there will be a lot more debris and flotsam which could knock ferries out of service for a little while anyways.
Anyone more familiar with spring runoff and increased amounts of debris this time of year? I know it has happened before around Horseshoe Bay. Do ferries just have to go slower or do they just go and hope nothing happens?
|
|
|
|
Post by Ferryman on May 18, 2007 20:03:37 GMT -8
I can remember back in October 2003, when Squamish had a major flood, just two months after moving there. Daisy Lake was about to overflow its banks, so the hydro dam holding the lake was released, allowing the lake to drain down the Cheakamus River, which flooded the low valley area that I reside in. The Cheakamus River flows into the Squamish River, which also joins up with the Cheakeye and Mamquam Rivers, and eventually it all flows into Howe Sound. The amount of water that flowed out of Daisy Lake that week, was estimated to be the quivalent to the Lake filling up 4 times, and being drained right to the last drop, within about 3 or 4 days. I can remember going down to Britannia Beach with my parents during the flood, to see the amount of debris in the water. If one wasn't familiar with the area, they probably would have assumed it was some sort of swamp. Howe Sound, at Britannia Beach, October 18, 2003.  After the water had gone down, at the trailer park just down the road from my house, I decided to get away from the stress of being around sandbagged yards, and hearing different stories from neighbors, with water flooding their basements. I headed back to the Island for a few days. I can remember reading all of the service notices for the Horseshoe Bay Ferries, with all of the delays of crews having to clean debris out from the propellars. Anyways, I ended up jumping on to the Queen of Coquitlams 7:00pm sailing, which was running 45 mins late due to the debris still lingering around Howe Sound. Luckily I had my video camera in hand, to catch anything that might cause problems. Once I got on the sundeck of the Coquitlam, I could see the silloette of a big pile of uprooted trees floating around the outside of Horseshoe Bay. When we finally left Horseshoe Bay, the Captain had the stern propellar pushing the ferry, and the bow propellar pushing against the direction we were going, basically the same sort of situation you see, as you come into the dock. This time, it was to use the churning water to act as a way of pushing the debris aside. Here's the footage of that, from 3 and a half years ago. (Around the 1:00 part, you'll see the spotlight shining on some debris, and then the rattling of the engines reving up.....plus there's some bonus footage in there of the Queen of Surrey arriving, I'm sure you guys wouldn't mind....)  |
|
|
|
Post by Hardy on May 21, 2007 20:29:17 GMT -8
Other than the debris floating around and potentially snagging the props, I do not think that the possible flood will impact the ferry service all that much for the main coastal routes. Whether or not the rivers flood, by the time that the water reaches any of the terminals, there is plenty of area for the volume of water to disperse. River flow should not affect operations too much. The exception, as noted, is the Albion Ferry (Translink). I would suspect that it will suspend service when we begin to approach flood stage, or as the debris torrent worsens. I've seen some pretty big 'stuff' float past those boats as they cross though. On a side note, I wonder how the potential flooding is going to be affecting the construction of the Golden Ears bridge project ....  |
|
|
|
Post by Hardy on May 21, 2007 20:40:59 GMT -8
... And another thing, while I am at it. John made a good point regarding other infrastructure not just homes. In the Brownsville and Bridgeview areas of Surrey (nearest the Patullo Bridge), businesses and residents have been given Phase II flood information and information concerning evacuation etc.
This low spot of Surrey is particularly vulnerable. If Hydro has to shut down power to the grid if there is flooding, several businesses not in the FLOOD area will be affected. Worse still is the fact that most of the main roads go thru that low area at the South (East?) approach to the Patullo Bridge; King George Highway (Peterson Hill), Scott Road, 104th Avenue, Grace Road, South Fraser Way, River Road ..... all kind of major roads, a few really major intersections and a whole pile of truck routes.
Larger businesses down here include Home Depot, a call centre, Ritchie Bros auctions, VanKam, Port of Surrey. In addition to these, there are numerous small businesses, a few cardlocks, log home manufacturers/assemblers.
The worst thing about the flooding, other than homes being flooded out, is the fact, as John stated, that sewer and fresh water facilities are going to be compromised. This is the clean up and rebuilding that will take longer than cleaning up just water damage. Roads will be erroded, transformers and utility poles washed away.
It could get pretty bad.
And that is just down the road from me. Nevermind up the Fraser Valley where an estimated 20% of the farmland in the region is under threat, mainly in the Chilliwack Rosedale area.
|
|
|
|
Post by Scott on May 22, 2007 17:51:03 GMT -8
In 1948, the year of the last big flood, Vancouver was almost completely cut off from the rest of the country. All the rail lines and highways leading east were flooded and although there was still access south, Washington and Oregon had their own flood problems. There were reports of dead livestock washing up on beaches everywhere, as far away as Vancouver Island. Georgia Strait was reportedly completely brown and many people were inoculated for typhoid. Vancouver began running out of milk and butter and the RCAF had to fly bread in from Calgary. For the first week of the flood, our esteemed Prince Minister Mackenzie King told BC it was a "provincial problem".
- a brief summary of the chapter on the flood in British Columbia Disasters by Derek Pethick.
|
|
|
|
Post by Low Light Mike on May 22, 2007 17:56:54 GMT -8
For the first week of the flood, our esteemed Prince Minister Mackenzie King told BC it was a "provincial problem". ...probably because that's what his dead mother told him to say. |
|
|
|
Post by WettCoast on May 22, 2007 19:34:29 GMT -8
I wonder if BC ferry vessels might be employed in rescue/recovery efforts during and following a flood? If roads and rail lines go down ferries may come in handy.
Another thing - the Queen of Sidney does not appear well connected to its moorings west of Mission. I would not be surprised to see it washed away in the deluge.
|
|
|
|
Post by Hardy on May 22, 2007 20:00:09 GMT -8
I wonder if BC ferry vessels might be employed in rescue/recovery efforts during and following a flood? If roads and rail lines go down ferries may come in handy. Another thing - the Queen of Sidney does not appear well connected to its moorings west of Mission. I would not be surprised to see it washed away in the deluge. Perhaps the Queen of Sidney IS the assistance that BCFerries will be providing in time of floods!! ;D    Okay, seriously .... I could see BCFS pitching in with something in the way of utilization of vessels if there is major flooding ... but ... with all the debris that will be around, and contamination and everything else, how practical is it going to be? I could see something like perhaps a K-class aiding somewhere along the Fraser assuming that it is navigable (?) but there are problems. All currently deployed ferries in Southern BC that could assist are of the typical BCFS configuration where the dock has the ramps .... right? That makes using one at a location other than a dock somewhat more challenging. I suppose that it will be left for us to wait and see what happens. |
|
|
|
Post by NMcKay on May 23, 2007 7:28:40 GMT -8
the 2 k class at albion continued to run during floods. they operate at reduced service. with weight restrictions inforced.
|
|
|
|
Post by kylefossett on May 23, 2007 15:24:21 GMT -8
the 2 k class at albion continued to run during floods. they operate at reduced service. with weight restrictions inforced. it was reported in one of the local papers that if the river reaches 6.5m then the ferries will not be running. i forget which paper this was in but it was recently. |
|
|
|
Post by Hardy on May 23, 2007 17:22:26 GMT -8
Quoted from CKNW ..... Spring flooding could impact major transportation routes. May, 17 2007 - 1:40 PM VANCOUVER/CKNW - As communities along the Fraser River continue to wait and watch for possible spring flooding, transportation concerns are being looked at with the potential of rising river waters cutting off major transportation routes. While the Ministry of Transportation doesn't want to speculate on areas of most concern, local governments have identified a variety of routes as being "at-risk" in particular, areas along the Lougheed Highway, the Pitt River Bridge and a potential shut-down of the Albion Ferry. Gary Manson with the District of Maple Ridge says the uncertainty surrounding a flood makes it hard to give people concrete possibilities. "We don't know exactly what could happen, but we've done our best to try and plan for those circumstances." Even rail companies are looking at alternate routes in the event a flood cuts off regular rail lines into the lower mainland. link at: www.cknw.com/news/news_local.cfm?cat=7428436912&rem=65582&red=80143623aPBIny&wids=242&gi=1&gm=news_local.cfm |
|
|
|
Post by Dane on May 23, 2007 17:23:53 GMT -8
I wonder if BC ferry vessels might be employed in rescue/recovery efforts during and following a flood? Nope. We're lead agency on it and there is nothing like that in the plans. Not a bad idea, though! |
|
|
|
Post by Hardy on May 23, 2007 17:24:22 GMT -8
Quoting from Langley PEP website .... link at: www.langleyemergencyprogram.bc.ca/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=3&Itemid=1partial quote only.... Businesses as well need to think about what they will do with their products, equipment, and hazardous materials should a flood happen. Companies throughout the community must also be aware that staff who are employed in Langley but live on the other side of the Fraser River may not be able to make it in to work. If flooding, occurs, Sherlock pointed out, the Albion Ferry will not be working and normal transportation routes may be flooded, causing traffic to be rerouted and creating delays. |
|
|
|
Post by Hardy on May 23, 2007 17:26:16 GMT -8
Old quotes from Maple Ridge Times ... link at: www.mrtimes.com/issues02/063202/news/063202nn2.htmlPartial quote only: "We're on the edge of our seats right now," said Capt. David Miller, president and CEO of Fraser Marine Transportation Ltd., the company that operates the commuter ferry. By late Thursday morning, the Mission Bridge water gauge showed the water level had risen to slightly over the six metre mark. Miller says if the gauge breaches the 6.3 metre level, operation of the ferry's docking ramps could be hampered. "It doesn't necessarily mean we'll shutdown, but it'll be an hour-by-hour situation."
|
|
|
|
Post by NMcKay on May 28, 2007 12:30:25 GMT -8
They do have probablems with the loading ramps. after a certain level...the loading ramps start going UP. thats when they enforce weight restrictions....if the water level hits a peak..then yes the ferry will be affected...but the vessels can continue to operate. its the loading ramps cant handle it.
|
|
|
|
Post by Hardy on May 31, 2007 22:35:18 GMT -8
Today I took my 3-ton on the Albion Ferry and was handed a leaflet by one of the lot/staging attendants. I was absorbed in paperwork at the time, and was told sternly "You have to read this". I flubbed it off, planning on doing it on the boat .... here is the full text of the leaflet:
Just so you know!
2007 FRASER RIVER FLOOD WATCH
Load Restrictions will be enforced if floodwaters reach 5.25 meters above sea level and heavy trucks will no longer be able to load onto the ferries.
The operational perimeters (sp!) may vary depending on inspection and noted strain placed upon the ramp hinges.
If floodwaters reach between 5.5 meters and 6 meters, we could be running a passenger only service.
Local radio stations will be notified and broadcast updates as they occur.
Fraser River Marine Transportation - Albion Ferry Operations 604-467-7298
I think that these notices were only handed out to commercial trucks on this route.......
|
|
|
|
Post by NMcKay on Jun 6, 2007 14:46:34 GMT -8
i think the PAX only service would be wierd, jumping from the car, running down to the boat deck. make for interesting morning with the cars having to go around.
|
|
|
|
Post by Hardy on Jun 6, 2007 16:18:26 GMT -8
i think the PAX only service would be wierd, jumping from the car, running down to the boat deck. make for interesting morning with the cars having to go around. Looks like we are going to get a chance to find out JUST how this is going to work out. They are now at their phase-I restrictions, on paper, limiting vehicles to 5500kg GVW. In practice however, even 1-ton cube vans (usually 3900-5400kg) are being turned away from the ferry landings at either side. Larger pickup trucks hauling livestock trailers or boats are also being turned away (I think this is a high-centring issue at the hitch point, as well as a weight issue). A call to the info line I supplied above, the employee answering the call stated that it was likely that by tomorrow PM rush, there would be further vehicle prohibitions in place. Pax, bicycles and motorcycles would continue to be allowed until service is completely suspended. Maybe the OTHER Translink subsidary, Coast Mountain Bus Company, should step up and start offering service TO the two terminals to ease congestion of the affected commuters. Nah, that would make sense. |
|
|
|
Post by WettCoast on Jun 6, 2007 19:01:20 GMT -8
Does anyone on this forum have any knowledge of plans to pull the northern ferries off their tourist service and use them to ensure that essential supplies get through to areas that are now unreachable by road & rail?
All North Coast communities are now cut off from the rest of BC by road/rail. The only way to get essentials in or out is by water. Will our ferries, and in particular, the NorAd, be used to help bring in essentials?
|
|
Koastal Karl
Voyager 
Been on every BC Ferry now!!!!!
Posts: 7,747
|
Post by Koastal Karl on Jun 7, 2007 19:15:42 GMT -8
Nope I dont think they will pull the Nor Ad off her route as we found out she is ALL BOOKED for the summer season.
What BC Ferries needs to build is an MV Coastal Barge, lol! A barge/freight type ferry to take all the drop trailers on the northern routes so they can take more cars as those things seem to take up all the space on the Queen of Prince Rupert to the Charlottes!
|
|
|
|
Post by Dane on Jun 7, 2007 19:24:28 GMT -8
Does anyone on this forum have any knowledge of plans to pull the northern ferries off their tourist service and use them to ensure that essential supplies get through to areas that are now unreachable by road & rail? Not as of yet, but it is an "open potential..." BC Ferries are actually written into virtually every disaster response plan, whether it be natural, terrorism, domestic uprising etc etc. I also think the HeloPads on the new SuperCs weren't BC Ferries idea either, but that's just a theory really. The Dep't of National Defence was willing to pay for HeloPads on the S and C Class ships, until BC Ferries explained our good friend "stability," to them. |
|
|
|
Post by WettCoast on Jun 7, 2007 20:00:55 GMT -8
What BC Ferries needs to build is an MV Coastal Barge, lol! A barge/freight type ferry to take all the drop trailers on the northern routes so they can take more cars as those things seem to take up all the space on the Queen of Prince Rupert to the Charlottes! All those trailers & trucks are relatively easy to load on the QPR, but its a different story on the NorAd. |
|
|
|
Post by Balfour on Jun 7, 2007 21:36:31 GMT -8
The NorAd is specifically a tourist boat, at least that's what she was built for when she was in the Mediterranean. Having that ramp deck at the bow doesn't help much either. Hopefully, BCF will design the car deck of the Northern Expedition so that this type of loading can be done.
|
|
|
|
Post by hergfest on Jun 7, 2007 23:15:45 GMT -8
Our Greek buddy already confirmed a bow ramp on the NorEx.
|
|
|
|
Post by Hardy on Jun 8, 2007 4:53:50 GMT -8
Our Greek buddy already confirmed a bow ramp on the NorEx. Who do we have in GREECE Do I assume you had a brain-fart and meant German/Germany???  ;D |
|
;D