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Post by Retrovision on Nov 2, 2006 13:24:16 GMT -8
I can see the holes in the potential venture as many others seem to, but I also realize that someone like Graham Clark doesn't get to the point of personally inspecting BCFS's current northern routes when there isn't the possibility of running a profitable northern BC or Alaska route himself.
...No offence, but such naysaying reminds me a lot of the general public's similar forgetfulness about the credentials and proficiency/capability politicians have to do the job that we hire them for.
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Neil
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Post by Neil on Nov 2, 2006 14:23:51 GMT -8
I believe Graham Clarke was on board because he was bidding on the existing northern routes, and not necessarily interested in starting up his own, in competition.
Sorry, but I didn't grasp the meaning of your comment that followed 'no offence'.
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Post by Retrovision on Nov 2, 2006 14:42:43 GMT -8
I believe Graham Clarke was on board because he was bidding on the existing northern routes... ... ...inspecting BCFS's current northern routes when there isn't the possibility of running a profitable northern BC or Alaska route himself. Sorry, but I didn't grasp the meaning of your comment that followed 'no offence'. ...No offence, but such naysaying reminds me a lot of the general public's similar forgetfulness about the credentials and proficiency/capability politicians have to do the job that we hire them for. What I mean is that we, as a group, are laymen, and most of us don't have the intricate knowledge necessary to say whether or not such an idea would work. Don't get me wrong, I realize that this is a discussion forum meant primarily for opinions, etc., but I wonder when someone is going to talk more about ways that it could work rather than focusing primarily on looking for every last fault. The political reference is based on my opinion of the electorate of Canada and the US, and my frustration with the all-to-often ignorant nature of the general public, voting and non, and sometimes bleeds over into my opinions on the views of the general public about the private sector as well. |
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Neil
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Post by Neil on Nov 2, 2006 19:51:19 GMT -8
tsawwassenterminal: I'm sorry you found my comments too negative. My intent was to provide a bit of counterpoint to an idea which, after all, had it's basis in a random conceptual photo at the beginning of this thread.
True, we're all laymen here, but if we don't have the expertise to be critical, then we probably don't have the expertise to be positive, either.... which might leave us with not much to talk about, don't you think?
As for your often expressed contempt for the political acumen of your fellow citizens- I used to share your views, but I find more and more that I'm inclined to cut people some slack for the experiences and perspectives which have shaped views different from mine. Even though I share a lot of your frustration.
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Post by Retrovision on Nov 2, 2006 20:36:58 GMT -8
tsawwassenterminal: I'm sorry you found my comments too negative. I don't seem to remember singling you out as being one of the worst offenders; if anything your arguments, albeit sometimes negative ones, make the most sense and always seem to have the most forethought behind them. True, we're all laymen here, but if we don't have the expertise to be critical, then we probably don't have the expertise to be positive, either, which might leave us with not much to talk about, don't you think?... Is this supposed to be an argument for why people tend to not focus on the positive? Sounds more like a statement of fact that only strengthens my use of how particular people normally slant an argument as a judgement of character.   As for your often expressed contempt for the political acumen of your fellow citizens- I used to share your views, but I find more and more that I'm inclined to cut people some slack for the experiences and perspectives which have shaped views different from mine. Even though I share a lot of your frustration. I've tried cutting slack in my past, and there's a good chance that I'll revert to this attitude as I grow older (based on my personality), but changed my mind in recent years because of the results of the peoples' apathy/ignorance towards political matters over the past few years that I've witnessed (naming no unilaterally-acting, so-called democratically elected, or very similar, governments ). I realize where the power truly lies - the people - and I realize who's shoulders the most obligation to as efficiently as possible change this apathy/ignorance rests on - those who still have the energy and idealism - the youth, including myself... Maybe this more confrontational attitude of mine on these kinds of matters has developed because I realize that I soon will no longer be able to count myself among the idealistic and energized youth, and am afraid of soon becoming bitter, and confrontational for far-less idealistic reasons. |
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Neil
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Post by Neil on Nov 3, 2006 12:37:38 GMT -8
Okay, no negativity.... be creative.... think outside the box.... yada yada yada.... I don't see any reason why a Canadian carrier should deliver tourists to Alaskan markets, but how about this for a 'cruise ferry'.... First of all, they buy a boat (an overnight car ferry), because even with the Sonia, there's no room for new service to the north. So you start from Sidney. Cruise through the Gulf Islands to your second stop at Tsawwassen. Then to Powell River, and possibly Comox. From there to Port Hardy, and up to Bella Coola. Out to Skidegate and end up in Prince Rupert. Do partnership marketing with tourist operators in each town- and passengers, with their vehicles, could do stopovers, or just port to port sections of the trip, or the whole thing. No need to build or lease terminals, except an improvement at Sidney, and all the tourist dollars stay in Canada. A goofy idea, maybe, but since this is a 'fantasy ferries' thread, I guess anything goes. |
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Post by Barnacle on Nov 3, 2006 16:58:12 GMT -8
Cascade, you're among the first to mention "Jones Act" a lot of the time... remember, no 'foreign' vessel can stop at more than one consecutive United States port. This idea sounds pretty stillborn to me. Hornbyguy: interesting. I assume that improvements to Sidney would involve dredging out to accomodate a large enough vessel to make the trip? How would a vessel that large affect the loading configuration for Sidney's current tenant? |
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Neil
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Post by Neil on Nov 3, 2006 21:56:12 GMT -8
Well, first, of course, BC Ferries would have to ditch WSF as a tenant....
Just kidding! I just wanted to make Cascade's ears perk up.
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Post by Barnacle on Nov 4, 2006 7:04:37 GMT -8
That wasn't very nice... do you have any idea how long it takes me to get my hackles all combed back down again? [edited typo] |
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Koastal Karl
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Been on every BC Ferry now!!!!!
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Post by Koastal Karl on Nov 4, 2006 9:47:04 GMT -8
I would personally rather take a cruise ship up to Alaska and spend a week doing an Alaska cruise than going up on a ferry although AMH Bellingham to Alaska sailings look interesting and would be a neat trip. Cost alot though you might as well just go on a cruise.
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Post by Retrovision on Nov 5, 2006 1:15:19 GMT -8
We should try to think outside the box - if we don't - then how do things which we now take for granted ever get started., as the saying goes. |
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Post by Barnacle on Nov 5, 2006 22:34:41 GMT -8
Really, Cascade? I've seen cruise ships anchor out but then the passengers go ashore in lifeboats.
Meanwhile, where can I find that site?
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Post by Scott on Nov 5, 2006 22:41:02 GMT -8
Cruise ship passengers regularly get off the cruise ships. Ships often anchor offshore and passengers are ferried to locations in lifeboats. They visit the glaciers, they dock at Juneau and other places, and a lot of the ships do one way trips, dropping off in Anchorage and picking up a whole new load, the northbound passengers flying home.
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Neil
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Post by Neil on Nov 5, 2006 22:41:27 GMT -8
Indeed, Alaskan towns are choked with tourists off the cruise ships. They actually dock in places like Juneau, Ketchikan, and Skagway.
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Neil
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Post by Neil on Nov 6, 2006 12:31:36 GMT -8
"piss takers"?
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Post by Low Light Mike on Nov 6, 2006 12:44:02 GMT -8
3 possibilities on that phrase: 1) The original word was automatically censored/replaced by Proboards. (in that case, what would the original have been?) 2) A typo on Cascade's part 3) He meant exactly that word....which I guess technically would refer to any living human. So, from one PT'er to all of you PT'ers, that's what I think. |
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Post by Barnacle on Nov 6, 2006 12:44:58 GMT -8
It's an expression from across the small pond, meaning 'one who pokes fun.'
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Post by Retrovision on Nov 6, 2006 14:14:28 GMT -8
Indeed, Alaskan towns are choked with tourists off the cruise ships. They actually dock in places like Juneau, Ketchikan, and Skagway. ...And they certainly aren't turning those tourist dollars away at the door. |
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Neil
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Post by Neil on Nov 6, 2006 22:44:01 GMT -8
Cascade, I have to congratulate you on your sources. There's hope for you yet. The Canadian Center for Policy Alternatives is a left-leaning 'think tank' which does it's best to counter the relentless pro-corporate propaganda of the Fraser Institute, although it doesn't have their resources, and the media doesn't highlight it's work nearly as much.
A lot of the information in that report has been brought forth in other places, but it's still a good collection of data and insights. An overall BC coastal stategy for attracting and dealing with cruise companies would be an excellent idea, although I don't know how it would be achieved, with so many local interests vying for the industry's attention. Prince Rupert's experience has so far been unfortunate, with nowhere near a decent return on their infrastructure investment, and other towns must be careful not to have inflated expectations about the 'cash cows' floating by (maybe 'cash manatees', since cows don't float very well).
Good to see the 'cruise junkies' website- we need something to counter the sycophantic slop dished out by all the travel writers. The cruise industry has enough consumer, labour, environmental, and political issues to require a whole pack of watchdogs.
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Post by yvr on Nov 15, 2006 15:23:16 GMT -8
A cruise ferry departing from Victoria and Vancouver and sailing north to various coastal communities, and perhaps Alaska is very intriguing. Although numerous obstacles would have to be overcome.
There are currently no vessels on the west coast, or planned builds for the west coast that meets the requirements of this service. I refer to the fact these sailings would require a vessel fitted with a high number of passenger cabins, due to the overnight sailings.
The Alaska cruise ship season is 4 1/2 to 5 months long for a good reason - the weather! The economics of sailing a vessel up and down the coast during the remaining 7 months are questionable. The ideal scenario would be a vessel that trades south of the equator during our winter, and in our waters during the summer. A similar service currently exists with Norwegian Coastal Cruises, the former Bergen Lines. During the long summer days their vessels ply the Norwegian coast. However during the northern winter, two of their cruise ferries, the Nordnorge, and the Nordkapp reposition, and cruise South America, and Antarctica waters. Thus these (45 car) 12,000 ton vessels have a higher, more productive utilization. My opinion is - a seasonal route exchange is the only way a cruise ferry could be made profitable for a B.C. coast / Alaska service.
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