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Post by Low Light Mike on Nov 12, 2006 10:21:09 GMT -8
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Post by Political Incorrectness on Nov 12, 2006 13:41:12 GMT -8
cascade, in this quote "a lot of forum members just don't want to hear how bad it is" I want to challenge this. When I smell the truth is not coming out, I get ticked off. I'd rather see the dirt out in the open than under the cover.
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Post by Scott on Nov 12, 2006 14:18:05 GMT -8
I think most people want to know how bad it is. Most of us love the ferries and respect the crew members and their training. But when there are problems we want to know about it.. probably more so than the average person.
Speaking of the stories in the Victoria Times Colonist, which I just read... it's pretty bad. I wonder, when it all comes out, if it'll be the end of private BC Ferries?
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Post by Islander15 on Nov 12, 2006 14:24:53 GMT -8
I can say as an employee of BCFS, I am glad to see these reports coming out. Maybe now the company will get serious about safety and training problems that we've been complaining about for years. Cudos to Bowland for releasing these. As far as safety is concerned the bare minimum is simply not good enough.
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Post by Political Incorrectness on Nov 12, 2006 15:02:52 GMT -8
Islander15, I agree with this, BCFS is begginning to mirror WSF in this way with going at the bare minimum and not maintaining the vessels as well as they should be. These are what leads to breakdowns, mishaps, and such. So why has your media been picking this up and not our media? I am guessing this is due to the lack of attention and it does not seem so bad at this point but it makes the idea of "mass transit" look bad in the way that it is not reliable all the time.
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Post by Islander15 on Nov 12, 2006 16:23:02 GMT -8
Could be... Our media is just starting to pick this up now though. Since the North went down, people have started asking questions. As far as I know( correct me if I'm wrong) WSF has never had a major fire or collision resulting in loss of life. Eventually people get complacent, thinking the system is safe, but in reality it's a disaster waiting to happen.
It's time for TC(transport canada) to step in and start getting tough on BCF because the company will not do it on their own( although they should).
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Post by Sailor on Nov 12, 2006 16:34:30 GMT -8
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Neil
Voyager 
Posts: 7,171
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Post by Neil on Nov 12, 2006 16:34:52 GMT -8
Nobody wants a cover up- I'm sure every member of this forum wants to know the true state of safety and maintenance issues at BC Ferries. It's just that some of us don't trust the media to put things in proper perspective. Over the course of five years, BC Ferries has close to a million departures- it must be pretty easy to pick out some mishaps and glitches. Is that indicative of a systemic disregard for safety and maintenance? Maybe. The TSB report into the 'North sinking, and George Morfitt's report, will be a much truer indicator than anything from the media.
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Post by CN2972South on Nov 12, 2006 17:01:16 GMT -8
BC ferries has how many sailings per day that depart and arrive without problems? Ships sink, trains derail, and cars crash. It's just a fact of life, these things happen. IMHO the media is blowing the whole thing out of porportion.
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Post by Low Light Mike on Nov 12, 2006 19:11:56 GMT -8
I'm just happy that these incidents are being talked about. I read the "related story" off the Canada.com link above (thanks to "Sailor guest" for posting that !)....and I'm leaving up to me to draw conclusions.
So I was happy just to have some incident-details reported on. It gives me some stuff to think about, re my own personal perception of the company & their service.
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Neil
Voyager
Posts: 7,171
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Post by Neil on Nov 12, 2006 19:23:12 GMT -8
I have a question about the news stories that all of us post from time to time.
Has anyone ever had any feedback from any of these sources about posting their stories? They often have very stern warnings in small print about unauthorized use- has anyone ever had problems or warnings about posting these?
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Post by Low Light Mike on Nov 12, 2006 20:22:36 GMT -8
I have a question about the news stories that all of us post from time to time. Has anyone ever had any feedback from any of these sources about posting their stories? They often have very stern warnings in small print about unauthorized use- has anyone ever had problems or warnings about posting these? I've never gotten any feedback re that. I sometimes remember to try and just post the link to the story, along with a headline-tease. That's what I did today...and others did same today as well. I think that a weblink should be posted in all such situations...ie. not to just cut/paste the story text. I've heard recommendations before that just posting the web-link is best. |
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Post by Ferryman on Nov 12, 2006 20:48:00 GMT -8
I've never had any problems doing so, but I try to include the writers name either at the beginning or end to the article.
But I do remember seeing an article that cascade posted a little while ago, and the first reponder to it was claiming to be the writer of the article, and asked cascade to write them an email. I don't know what happened after that though.
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Neil
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Posts: 7,171
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Post by Neil on Nov 13, 2006 18:03:41 GMT -8
An example of media spin, and why I don't trust them to keep things in perspective.
One of the lead stories on today's noon news on CKNW was an item about a promotional venture involving BC Ferries and kids going to Victoria Salmon Kings games. Now, why would such a seemingly insignificant item make the news? Well, the story mentioned that some Salmon Kings players are under investigation for sexual assault, involving a female U Vic student.
I can guarantee you that the 'angle' in the 'NW newsroom was: a company that can currently do nothing right, sending kids to watch a hockey team full of immoral thugs. A slight quizzical tone in the newsreader's voice made it clear how inappropriate he thought this was.
No editorializing, no accusations; just the linking of two names in the news to leave a certain bad taste in the listener's mouth. Sneaky, snide, and indicative of why so much of what we're told should be listened to with a very discerning ear.
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Post by Low Light Mike on Nov 13, 2006 20:08:19 GMT -8
re the CKNW spin topic:
- It is true that BC Ferries is running a promo that involves the Victoria Salmon Kings.
- It is also true that some members of the Salmon Kings are being investigated on an assualt matter. This has been reported on various local media sources.
- I think it's natural (given the current run of negative press against BCFS) for a person to see the unfortunate connection between the 2 items, and to react by thinking something like "Well, that's just more bad press involving BC Ferries". I say this in the context of the recent run of negative press re BCFS, which we've been exposed to.
Is this a fair connection? No, likely not. But based on the current "pile on" onto BCFS, it is a connection that's simple to make. In other circumstances, it would be natural for me to see no link between these 2 stories.
So, what's the issue? I guess, as Hornbyguy pointed out, it's important for us to be aware of spin, and for us to examine whether a connection of issues is relevant or just trendy....
(late edit, in an attempt to add clarity to my thoughts)
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Neil
Voyager
Posts: 7,171
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Post by Neil on Nov 13, 2006 23:03:42 GMT -8
Returning to a point I raised a few posts ago, here's CanWest's answer to my question regarding posting their stories:
Minnis, Cheryl (CanWest Interactive) (cminnis@canwest.com) +Add contact
Subject: RE: re-printing
Hi Neil,
Thanks for your request. It is not illegal for you to link to the story from your forum, however most of our story links are removed within 7 days. If you want to post something you do need permission to do so. There are fees involved depending on the length of time you with to post and the purpose. Once permission is granted, a PDF of the story would be sent to you for posting. If you have further questions or would like information on fees, please let me know.
Kind regards.
Cheryl
--------------------------------
Sooooo, I suppose that the e-mail another forum member got from a Province reporter might have been asking him not to post her stories, especially since he added his own highlights. Don't worry- I didn't mention to CanWest our forum, or it's subject.
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Post by Low Light Mike on Nov 14, 2006 6:17:05 GMT -8
Thanks Mr. Hornbyguy. That info is good to know.
I think that posting just-the-link to a story is adequate for this forum, even if it's gone in 7 days.......because most people on this forum would read it within 7 days (assuming that they are interested).
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Neil
Voyager
Posts: 7,171
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Post by Neil on Nov 14, 2006 13:31:23 GMT -8
Cascade- glad to hear you didn't get spanked for posting the Province story. I'll probably continue to post some things when it seems appropriate, but it seems pretty clear they could object if they thought it was worth the effort.
Standardization of new bridge safety and navigation equipment would seem to be a common sense given, and if BC Ferries isn't making enough of an effort to do that, I imagine Morfitt's report will take them to task.
I don't know if the question of profit, or public/private really plays a part here. It's more a matter of management expertise. One thing for sure though, if BC Ferries were still fully public, the Minister in charge would be taking some serious political heat right now, whereas the Liberals are undeservedly quite comfortable through all this controversy.
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Post by Barnacle on Nov 14, 2006 15:38:14 GMT -8
Standardization of bridge equipment... eeef. It's harder than it sounds, guys. WSF has pretty standard bridge equipment from boat to boat, barring a couple of variations that occur with such issues as "old-model-no-longer-available," or different ideas about how certain things should be set up when said technology was in its infancy. Anyway, it's taken WSF twenty years and counting to get it all 'standard,' discounting such challenges as the Steel-Electrics (whose pilothouses are simply too small to accomodate all the equipment that other vessels have).
Anyway, it's a good idea, if a company is prepared to invest the time and effort to make it work. But it's a tough sell when it doesn't really affect the bottom line in a positive way (aside from perhaps a small reduction in training on the various bits of equipment which, to hear the media tell it, doesn't happen anyway ;D).
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Neil
Voyager
Posts: 7,171
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Post by Neil on Nov 14, 2006 21:44:00 GMT -8
All of us laymen on this board are prone to making glib and often inaccurate observations about what should and shouldn't be done on the ferries, so when someone who actually has some shipboard experience can offer some insight, it's appreciated.
"eeef"? Great, another language to master.... 'barnacleian'.
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Post by Barnacle on Nov 15, 2006 8:13:19 GMT -8
Nyuk nyuk nyuk. ;D
"Eeef" is a lot like 'ooof,' basically a full-body-smack-the-wall grunt with overtones of 'I've been here before'.
Bridge standardization is something of a holy grail, and I do applaud the efforts WSF has made toward that--indeed, great strides. The biggest improvements they've made on the whole issue is larger pilothouses to hold all the additional equipment... radar units, on the whole, were pretty much a standard size for years because cathode ray tubes really couldn't get any smaller. However, Furuno (and I'm sure others) are now coming out with LCD-based displays which, while having their own set of challenges, are a vast improvement (in addition to being smaller... woo hoo!). Redundant GPS units, while small, still take up bulkhead space. Fortunately, some space was recovered by retiring the LORAN units that no one used--in fact I don't think anyone could ever get them to work right. Gyrocompasses have gotten a lot smaller in the last twenty years... but we now have AIS (Automated Identification System) boxes, satellite compasses (in addition to the gyro units), transponders to make the WSF Vessel Watch site work...
...and somewhere in the middle of all this we have to have the controls to run the boat. ;D
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Neil
Voyager
Posts: 7,171
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Post by Neil on Nov 15, 2006 12:44:59 GMT -8
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Post by Low Light Mike on Nov 15, 2006 18:27:05 GMT -8
Cartoon appreciated, Cascade. Thanks !
Thanks to Hornbyguy for posting the CBC story on the log book.
Yeah, it just keeps getting stranger...
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Post by Scott on Nov 15, 2006 19:05:33 GMT -8
Interesting (according to the CBC story) that the QPR is going to be fixed in Alaska. Has that happened before?
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Post by WettCoast on Nov 15, 2006 19:38:30 GMT -8
I do not believe that they have ever had work done in Alaska. However, that is the closest dry dock to Prince Rupert and perhaps they have availability to get a ship in on short notice.
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