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Post by Retrovision on Oct 25, 2006 12:35:18 GMT -8
At BCFS' recent Annual General Meeting, David Hahn, President and CEO of BCFS, stated that the rebuilds of Berth 2 at both Swartz Bay and Tsawwassen terminals cost the same ammount, $25 million... (as stated at the begining of this video clip) In fact, berth 2 and another unnamed berth at Tsawwassen terminal and " constructing a new foot passenger waiting lounge, tower and access walkway as well as upgrading the electrical sercive," accroding to BCFS' own Annual Report, cost around $5 million (or around 20%) less than Swartz Bay terminal's highly-touted/high-tech state-of-the-art floating berth 2 that can accomodate any major vessel unloading/loading passengers via the overhead walkway....  ...Yet it is plain to see with the naked eye that the new Berth 2 at Tsawwassen terminal is not able to handle any 'major' vessel loading/unloding of foot passengers via the overhead walkway because of its lack of height...   |
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Post by Dane on Oct 25, 2006 12:50:26 GMT -8
I still don't follow what the problem is.
He said they were both $25 million, he was wrong.
Incorrect
1. Not correct; erroneous or wrong: an incorrect answer.
2. Defective; faulty: incorrect programming of the computer.
3. Improper; inappropriate: incorrect behavior.
Lie
a false statement made with deliberate intent to deceive; an intentional untruth; a falsehood.
2. something intended or serving to convey a false impression; imposture: His flashy car was a lie that deceived no one.
3. an inaccurate or false statement.
4. the charge or accusation of lying: He flung the lie back at his accusers.
–verb (used without object)
5. to speak falsely or utter untruth knowingly, as with intent to deceive.
6. to express what is false; convey a false impression.
–verb (used with object)
7. to bring about or affect by lying (often used reflexively): to lie oneself out of a difficulty; accustomed to lying his way out of difficulties.
Generally when one lies you find there is something to gain. Being 20% off on a project that is of little signifigance doesn't scream consipracy. Moreover, by your own previous post you said there was published information and testimony from another BCFS exec that the project cost $20 mill. Jumping on someone and accusing them of lying over an oversight is silly.
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Neil
Voyager 
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Post by Neil on Oct 25, 2006 13:27:10 GMT -8
Whether 20% or 500% off, I don't really see why Hahn would bother lying or misleading about a project which has garnered little interest, and less controversy. More likely he's a glib, at times careless speaker, who messed up the figures.
His adherence to the cotter pin story for the Oak Bay accident, and his instant blaming of the 'North's bridge crew for the sinking, might be more pointed examples of a lack of candour.
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Post by kylefossett on Oct 25, 2006 14:59:47 GMT -8
was he maybe just un prepared with the numbers
berth2 at tsawwassen foot passenger ramp goes up and down and is kept in the down position when not on a vessel
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Koastal Karl
Voyager
Been on every BC Ferry now!!!!!
Posts: 7,747
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Post by Koastal Karl on Oct 25, 2006 15:06:42 GMT -8
I have used the walkway at berth 2 once coming off the Queen of Nanaimo!
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Post by Ferryman on Oct 25, 2006 17:18:16 GMT -8
The only thing I can think of, is that the total cost of both projects, was $25 million. They claim that the cost to do the Swartz Bay Berth was 17 million, and the cost to do the Tsawwassen berth, was 8 million. Add the two together, and voila, $25 million.
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Post by Retrovision on Oct 25, 2006 20:20:07 GMT -8
Apologies for the specifics in my last post; I was in quite the hurry to catch my bus... -I have removed the word "lie" from the title of this thread -I have edited the last comment that I made regarding the potential height of the Berth 2 overhead walkway at Tsawwassen terminal. What I meant was that it's plain to see, to any person who really knows the BC Ferry system, that Berth 2 at Tsawwassen terminal cannot handle overhead walkway loading/unloding of foot passengers to/from any 'Major' vessel of the BCFS fleet. I still don't follow what the problem is. He said they were both $25 million, he was wrong. Incorrect 1. Not correct; erroneous or wrong: an incorrect answer. 2. Defective; faulty: incorrect programming of the computer. 3. Improper; inappropriate: incorrect behavior. Lie a false statement made with deliberate intent to deceive; an intentional untruth; a falsehood. 2. something intended or serving to convey a false impression; imposture: His flashy car was a lie that deceived no one. 3. an inaccurate or false statement.4. the charge or accusation of lying: He flung the lie back at his accusers. –verb (used without object) 5. to speak falsely or utter untruth knowingly, as with intent to deceive.6. to express what is false; convey a false impression. –verb (used with object) 7. to bring about or affect by lying (often used reflexively): to lie oneself out of a difficulty; accustomed to lying his way out of difficulties. Generally when one lies you find there is something to gain. Being 20% off on a project that is of little signifigance doesn't scream consipracy. Moreover, by your own previous post you said there was published information and testimony from another BCFS exec that the project cost $20 mill. Jumping on someone and accusing them of lying over an oversight is silly. A lie and a lie motivated by malice are two very different things. was he maybe just un prepared with the numbers He is paid a tidy sum to be president and CEO of BCFS, yet he was not able to demonstrate that he knew if the Queen of Alberni was the 4th or 5th 'C' Class vessel to have an MLU. How prepared is every single staff member of BCFS? Compared to just how extremely prepared every single employee of BCFS is to do their job, and carry their duties out to their full extent during an emergency, are we to believe that the President and CEO of the company that this dedicated and focused staff work for doesn't know which of the only 5 'C' Class vessels of the only remaining 9 major vessels of his fleet have undergone extremely capital-heavy Mid-Life Upgrades? ...Out of context for the moment, granted, but do you all honestly buy such ' unpreparedness' on the part of the President and CEO of such a major company, brought up from the 'States specifically for his skills? berth2 at tsawwassen foot passenger ramp goes up and down and is kept in the down position when not on a vessel Sorry for the sarcasm, but, Really?   I am aware of how the overhead walkway system of BCFerries' terminals work, and will spend some time tonight looking for the best photographs that I've taken over the past year or so that demonstrate how obvious my point about Berth 2 at Tsawwassen terminal not being able to handle the loading and unloading of foot-passengers via the overhead walkway by 'Major' vessels of the fleet is, particularly considering the tides. The only thing I can think of, is that the total cost of both projects, was $25 million. They claim that the cost to do the Swartz Bay Berth was 17 million, and the cost to do the Tsawwassen berth, was 8 million. Add the two together, and voila, $25 million. In fact, if you listen clearly, David Hahn says: "...both of those are 25 million dollar projects..."...Which, if I remember my grammar correctly, means he's referring to their costs sparately, not as a lump sum. |
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Neil
Voyager
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Post by Neil on Oct 25, 2006 21:18:11 GMT -8
Yes, actually, I can 'buy such unpreparedness' on the part of a CEO, because I've heard such confusion from Canwest executives when they've talked about their local newspaper operations. So, have we shifted gears from accusing him of lying and misleading, to accusing him of being incompetent, or just bad with figures?
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Post by Ferryman on Oct 25, 2006 21:34:42 GMT -8
Hmm, very interesting....
Hard to say if it was slip of the tongue, or pure exageration. This reminds me of the day of the Oak Bay grounding, when Hahn said the Oak Bay was built in the 1960's to the news reporters. I got that one on tape.
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Post by hergfest on Oct 26, 2006 0:28:37 GMT -8
Give the guy a break, he has a lot on his plate. He isn't a ferry nerd like you.
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Post by Low Light Mike on Oct 26, 2006 5:10:47 GMT -8
Having only seen Hahn speaking a few times on video (Oak Bay grounding, Q-North sinking, recent AGM), he does appear to muddle his way through facts, as he tries to speak in an "off the cuff" manner. And that's exactly how his style was at the AGM in question. He was engaging to listen to.....but the downside is that he can make mistakes that way. A word-for-word written speach would have been boring, in my opinion.
Maybe that's just a public speaking thing, where he gets a bit mixed up.
Personally, I don't think the Berth-2 matter was deliberate on his part, and isn't anything more than him being unclear in his communication. That doesn't mean he's not a good leader.
Jean Cretien had problems with brain-mouth disconnect. So does George W. Bush. So did Joe Clark. So did John McKeachie.
(ignore the politics/contexts of the above examples....just focus on the mouth-brain-disconnect issue).
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Post by Retrovision on Oct 26, 2006 8:52:41 GMT -8
Maybe that's just a public speaking thing, where he gets a bit mixed up. s didn't afford us democracy Jean Cretien had problems with brain-mouth disconnect... ...(ignore the politics/contexts of the above examples....just focus on the mouth-brain-disconnect issue). Sorry to inform, but Jean Chretien speaks differently than us primarily because he had polio as a child. Most die-hard political junkies and politicians alike agree that he's the only french-speaking leader from Quebec who actually spoke french as poorly as he spoke english. |
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Post by kylefossett on Oct 26, 2006 14:18:10 GMT -8
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Post by kylefossett on Oct 26, 2006 14:23:49 GMT -8
A lie and a lie motivated by malice are two very different things. He is paid a tidy sum to be president and CEO of BCFS, yet he was not able to demonstrate that he knew if the Queen of Alberni was the 4th or 5th 'C' Class vessel to have an MLU. How prepared is every single staff member of BCFS? Compared to just how extremely prepared every single employee of BCFS is to do their job, and carry their duties out to their full extent during an emergency, are we to believe that the President and CEO of the company that this dedicated and focused staff work for doesn't know which of the only 5 'C' Class vessels of the only remaining 9 major vessels of his fleet have undergone extremely capital-heavy Mid-Life Upgrades? ...Out of context for the moment, granted, but do you all honestly buy such ' unpreparedness' on the part of the President and CEO of such a major company, brought up from the 'States specifically for his skills? [/quote] he is given numbers by his assistants and speach writers. if you ask any ceo about numbers for their company then i bet they are as ill prepared as hahn was. and how can you compare his prepardness for a speech at a meeting to how prepared a deckhand is onboard the ferries |
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Post by Retrovision on Oct 26, 2006 18:19:43 GMT -8
he is given numbers by his assistants and speach writers. if you ask any ceo about numbers for their company then i bet they are as ill prepared as hahn was. and how can you compare his prepardness for a speech at a meeting to how prepared a deckhand is onboard the ferries And such is the story of the majority of polititians; that still doesn't answer the question of why no one seems to care. |
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Post by Retrovision on Oct 26, 2006 22:27:38 GMT -8
I...will spend some time tonight looking for the best photographs that I've taken over the past year or so that demonstrate how obvious my point about Berth 2 at Tsawwassen terminal not being able to handle the loading and unloading of foot-passengers via the overhead walkway by 'Major' vessels of the fleet is, particularly considering the tides. This is the best picture of mine that I can find right now that shows what I'm talking about:  |
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Post by kylefossett on Oct 27, 2006 9:52:05 GMT -8
What kind of point are you trying to make buddy? i am looking at the above picture and it looks like it is loading fine on the queen of naniamo. i am assuming that the v-class is the vancouver and she is in berth one as a tie-up. when it is a revenue sailing they will take her to berths 3,4,or 5 for loading. the crew after tying up at berth one will disembark by the car deck. the only vessels that use berth 2 for revenue sailings are the route 9 and 9a vessels so the nanny, tsawwassen, and bowen queen. so what you are trying to do is argue a point that does not exist
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Post by Doug on Oct 27, 2006 17:32:29 GMT -8
Kyle, meet "tsawwassenterminal", AKA Mr. Politically-Correct. |
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Post by kylefossett on Oct 27, 2006 21:25:41 GMT -8
Kyle, meet "tsawwassenterminal", AKA Mr. Politically-Correct. and i am still trying to figure out what he is saying |
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Koastal Karl
Voyager
Been on every BC Ferry now!!!!!
Posts: 7,747
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Post by Koastal Karl on Oct 27, 2006 21:31:10 GMT -8
The foot passenger tower at berth 2 is not high enough for them to use it with a major vessel that has two car decks. It was designed for like the Queen of Nanaimo Burnaby, ect.. Took me a while to figure out what he was saying.
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Post by Low Light Mike on Oct 27, 2006 21:35:44 GMT -8
Thanks for saying it plainly, Karl.
Translation much appreciated.
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Post by kylefossett on Oct 27, 2006 21:44:16 GMT -8
and that is what i was trying to tell him from the start.
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Post by Mike C on Oct 28, 2006 10:31:39 GMT -8
This may seem like a pretty dumb question, but is it possible for the overhead walkway at Berth 2 to serve a Powell River class vessel?
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Post by kylefossett on Oct 28, 2006 10:49:40 GMT -8
This may seem like a pretty dumb question, but is it possible for the overhead walkway at Berth 2 to serve a Powell River class vessel? not unless that vessel had a gate in the railing for the ramp. just trying to think at about the distance out from the ramp that the superstructure on a powell river class is. height wise it could be done |
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Post by Retrovision on Oct 28, 2006 16:34:45 GMT -8
Sorry, have been busy lately and haven't had what I feel is enough time to properly speak to everyones points. Kyle, meet "tsawwassenterminal", AKA Mr. Politically-Correct. and i am still trying to figure out what he is saying Interesting angle, buddy. ...This was never meant to argue any single point, more as a statement of fact. If you've noticed, I sometimes post pictures that show our fleet, etc., on this online community also, and that isn't an argument either. Just take a look for yourself, and maybe you can draw your own conclusions: ...And yes, I realize that there is no upper vehicle-deck to the berth, and all 'major' vessels of the fleet generally only use the upper foot-passenger walkway in conjunction with loding/unloding via the upper vehicle-deck. I also realize, however, that the only vessel currently in BCFS's fleet capable of utilizing this berth to its full potential is the Queen of Nanaimo - out of the dozen or so times that I've seen the Queen of Tsawwassen at Tsawwassen terminal over the past couple years, I can't remember ever seeing her at Berth 2 - so why such expensive upgrades to passenger facilities for only one vessel? |
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