BCFS AGM

[Retrovision]

Tomorrow is BCFS' Annual General Meeting, which I'll be attending. You're all welcome to join me, it starts at 4pm in the Victoria Conference Centre behind the Empress Hotel. I'll try to take a few notes, and maybe even some video of discussion/questions regarding key issues. I'll report back here later.

[Curtis]

Think of some questions to ask that they can answer. Anything we don't know tell us.
Maybe you should ask about upgrades to the Queen of New West and Burnaby and if there will be more ships going through those types of upgrading.

[hergfest]

Will the Alberni's midlife be done this year? What will it include?

[Curtis]

So... What happened at the AGM?

[Retrovision]

A meeting like this is very subjective, so I recorded most of it.

Intro 1/2:

Intro 2/2:

David Hahn's speech, Part 1 (Listen carefully, particularly at around 5:23 and after ):


To Be Continued...

[hergfest]

Basicly the same stuff we have been talking about here. BC Ferries taking over the Sidney terminal, drop trailer service, all the new vessels coming in.

[Retrovision]

Straight from the horse's mouth this time.

[Neil]

Thanks for sharing that with us, tsawwassen', much appreciated.

Two little interesting tidbits, I thought... Hahn mentioned the increase in vehicle traffic on route 12, which should make Quinsam Teen happy, (what's happened to QT lately, anyway? Did some meanie muzzle him and stuff him in a closet, or something?)
Also, he mentioned the possibility of using the Burnaby or Nanaimo on late night, or drop trailer service once the new ships come on line. That would make more sense than using the 'Saanich, as was suggested, which would entail wasting the entire upper car deck on that ferry. He didn't mention what would replace those vessels on their existing routes. More to come, I guess.

[Retrovision]

I haven't seen this mentioned previously, so I'll talk about it here. When I was taking photos of the Super 'C' model after the AGM, in a short conversation with a fellow in a suit, it was revealed to me that the Super 'C's are designed so that during times of lower volume the lower passenger deck will be able to be closed off from the upper passenger deck, making the upper passenger deck the primary deck that contains all major services such as the cafe, gift shop, etc.

[Ferryman]

tsawwassenterminal said:

]Listen carefully, particularly at around

[/size][/u]5:23 and after ):[/b]

[/quote]

Very interesting at that part....David Hahn mentioned that they're considering other opportunities for the V's. So does this mean they'll be around and running for a little bit longer? I find that a bit of a stretch, as I thought their certs. are running out in 2009 or something.

If they plan to keep them around a bit longer, they better do something with the outer deck steel on the Esquimalt and Vancouver. The Vancouver in particular, because its getting pretty worn down. They need to fix its horn too, sounds like there's a leak on the highest notes airpipe, so there's no sound on it. I could easily hear the air spewing out somewhere... Have a listen....

ferrymaniac.sitesled.com/Pics/qvancouver.wav

[Retrovision]

This same fellow mentioned, and later in the short conversation reiterated, that the Vs "are old ships," although he might have just been assuming that I didn't realize just how old they actually are (especially in nautical terms), as most don't seem to.

[Neil]

In listening to that clip of Hahn again, I think I misheard him the first time when I thought he was refering to uses for the 'B' class vessels.... I think Chris is right and Hahn actually said 'V'.

[Retrovision]

hornbyguy said:

In listening to that clip of Hahn again, I think I misheard him the first time when I thought he was refering to uses for the 'B' class vessels.... I think Chris is right and Hahn actually said 'V'.

I ran into the same question, and agree that he's probably saying "V Class."

[Retrovision]

David Hahn, CEO - British Columbia Ferries Services (BCFS) Parts 2-5...

[Curtis]

After watching all of them I know How you say Kwuna Ke-woo-na. The Quinsam might be the worst ship in the fleet until some upgrading in 2007. The Queen of Alberni Could be in drydock till 2008 because of all the ships going in there or another reason I mean she's getting a 40 Freakin Million Dollar Upgrade that's more then her 1976 C Class Sisters and she's half the size. And finally BCF is thinking about the 50th Anniversary. After he said the 50th Anniversary was more important then the Olympics I started Chanting Gold Stacks Gold Stacks Gold Stacks

[Ferryman]

Interesting Clips from the meeting! Why is the Queen of Alberni's upgrade going to cost $40 million? She must need a heck of alot of work, if her upgrade is going to cost the same amount as the Queens of Oak Bay and Surrey. Or, unless they're actually considering adding on to the passenger deck?? Who knows, these next 10 years will be very interesting! I'm assuming the BC Ferries academy would include the Queen of Tsawwassen, as someone mentioned it was going to be used to train crews at Duke Point....

[Curtis]

I get the feeling adding to the passenger deck is exactly what they could be doing. They said it would cost 40 million and wouldn't be done till 2008. What does this all mean I wonder?

[Neil]

A couple of interpretations of 'Hahn-speak', and a couple of other points from his 'Sermon from the mount'.....

"Names are names"

I'm with him here, sort of.

You know when you meet someone who has a really strange name, and for a while every time you see them you can't help reflecting on the wierdness of their name? But then you get to know them- and after a while their name becomes nothing more than a collection of sounds associated with them. 'Queen of Chilliwack', and 'Queen of Surrey' sounded ridiculous at first, but no one seems bothered now. So, everyone who's all bent out of shape over 'Coastal Renaissance'- believe me, your pain will lessen with time.

"The numbers will be the numbers".

Despite all Dave's blather about how much money BC Ferries pumps into BC's economy, as a 'privatized' company, BC Ferries could not give a flying you-know-what about the net negative impact to our economy of exporting jobs to Germany or elsewhere to save a few bucks on a new build. Their own bottom line is all that matters, and once again, I think this illustrates the false economy of privatization.

Interesting to hear Hahn stress that BC Ferries was going to grow from it's current 35 ships. Every new addition is not necessarily going to mean an older ship's retirement, and it certainly looks like Dane's disgusted baby will be into his teens before the last V is sent to Alang.

Hahn said that usually when people complain that they can't hear terminal announcements, it's because they've got their car windows up. Nice to know how he view's the public's intelligence.

Finally, he said there were two parties interested in the Mill Bay- Brentwood ferry, which at first, I found kind of surprising. If you read the fine print of that story, though, you see that one of the applicants is identified as 'Harry and Bootsie the Cat Shipping Ltd.', so it may be that there is really only one viable party involved.

[landlocked]

A name is a name...true. When you think about the Queens you automatically equate to an earlier time when they were appropriate. The new names certainly reflect a new direction and a establish a new corporate identity. Remember that worldwide, the owners of ships get to name them anything they want which reflect their corporate branding or an overall marketing strategy.

BCFS have a responsibility to provide the service as mandated by the Province of BC. It is the Province that has determined the level of economic stimulation BCFS will provide. It is the Province for example that dictates level of service on the north coast and level of subsidy they're willing to provide. BC Ferries is a contractor providing a service as mandated by their master, that's all, and I do get a little annoyed with Hahn and BCFS when they expect us to believe that THEY are the economic generator, not the program they are contracted to fulfill.

As for the offshore building program, how much is a 'few bucks'. When the Spirits were built, the Province took bids from other countries. The Koreans came in at 88M delivered, the Japanese 102M, the southern US at 120M and the BC yards at 165M. The decision was made to build in BC but NONE of the yards were willing to either guarantee performance, design, or cost. BCFS, through its sub, Independent Ferry Contractors had to take all the risk because the yards wouldn't. End of the day, the ships cost TWICE as much as they would have if they'd been built offshore. I'm with Hahn on this one.

[Neil]

Editorial by Bill Good on The Bill Good Show on CKNW radio
September 16, 2002

The Shipyard General Workers' Federation is expressing great concern today about the BC government looking stateside or offshore to build new ferries and refurbish present ships. The idea is daft.

BC government may be afraid of another "fast ferry" fiasco, but the "fast ferries" were not the fault of BC Shipbuilders, and those workers should not be penalized for the mismanagement of the former government.

The "fast ferries" were ill conceived. The proof of that is that they still cannot be sold, but the work was well done.

The fact is the money should have been spent building new traditional ferries in BC and using BC Shipyards to do the work that's now long overdue, updating existing ships.

Why on earth would we reward a US Shipyard with BC work, especially when the US is punishing our forest workers?

Why would we even consider China, Japan, Korea or Singapore when their shipyards are subsidized by their governments and by low wages?

Even if there was a cost benefit to BC taxpayers to going offshore the number of jobs, the spin-off to supporting firms here is huge.

The wages alone paid would amount to approximately 78 million dollars, that equates to about 30 million in tax revenue to government.

The BC government doesn't like the idea of subsidies but it shouldn't like the idea of exporting jobs either.

Not at a time when so many jobs are being lost to US and offshore competition. Not at a time when the BC economy is in such need of a shot in the arm.

Our shipyards suffered under foolish job creation during the NDP, it would be even more foolish to send that work elsewhere now.

The ferries are ours, we pay to use them - I rode the Queen of Surrey twice this weekend, I want my money to go to BC workers, and if it means a slightly higher fare, I'll gladly pay it.

At least that's the way I see it.

Thought I'd post someone else's view on this, as people are probably tired of hear me go on about it.

Landlocked: I've learned to be wary of statistics posted by certain folks (nothing personal, here)- what was your source for the particulars of the foreign bids on the Spirits? Not that it changes the gist of what I was saying.

[Low Light Mike]

hornbyguy said:

Finally, he said there were two parties interested in the Mill Bay- Brentwood ferry, which at first, I found kind of surprising. If you read the fine print of that story, though, you see that one of the applicants is identified as 'Harry and Bootsie the Cat Shipping Ltd.', so it may be that there is really only one viable party involved.

So are you saying that "Harry & Bootsie The Cat Shipping Ltd." is the one viable party?

[Neil]

Of course I was. Sheesh, do I always need to spell everything out?

[Balfour]

Poor Harry... we still bug him even though he never posts here...

[landlocked]

With respect to facts and figures concerning the Spirits, back in 91/92 it was pretty well known. They may certainly not be 'to the penny', but I'm sure as my memory serves me, they're not far off. Remember, when the Spirits were built, the only shipyard in BC big enough to do the job was Versatile Pacific. Here was a company that had leveraged their way into every business they owned. They couldn't afford to put the capital investment into their shipyards. When you walked into the old Burrard Drydock, you thought you were turning back the hands of time. Everything was old and decrepit. On the other hands, the Japanese, the Europeans, and even the Koreans could have built those ships inside buildings while we did everything outside, in the rain and snow, and of course, in addition to our higher labour costs, the process was slow, tedious and unproductive. Versatile expected the job of building the Spirits, knew they were the only ones to do it, and wanted the sun, moon and stars to do so. That's why the Province went outside to get bids.

One other aspect of giving the job to a full service, well founded yard, is the fact that they will tell BCFS to stay out of the design process to a degree, and will guarantee the ships performance and design. They will also guarantee delivery and price. Those are huge items today. I believe they will be good ships, built by a good yard, with a good reputation, and at a more than competitive price. Bill Good can say what he wants about being willing to pay a higher fare to ride BC built ships. He can afford it. I can't, and if last years rates and ridership are any indication, it seems the public have chosen not to ride at the higher fares either.

[landlocked]

I'm not sure what info you're referring to Cascade with respect to the bidding process. In 91/92 it was a very different day.

As far as Route 12 is concerned, the only two people who identified themselves as even having an interest were Victoria Clipper and Graham Clark. Don't forget he owns the Garabaldi II now. In addition, both the Albion boats will be up for sale within a year or two.