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Post by Low Light Mike on Sept 8, 2006 16:31:21 GMT -8
By the way: anyone care to speculate how many multiples of the fast ferry cost over run the Olympics budget is going to balloon by? I'll start the guessing at ten times. I'll raise you 5, to arrive at 15-times over the fast-ferries overrun amount. Security will get crazier, inflation will hurt, and there could be interest-rate increases between now & then that might have an impact re short-term financing of some costs. Then there's the impact of the lack of skilled labour: we will find out if this is a myth, fact or something in-between. My little-boy-inside says "hoo-ray" for the 2010 olympics, with all the sporting excellence and pageantry and cultural experiences. But the more-rational-man in me says "look out" for the costs, and the legacy of debt.....as well as the opportunity-cost of much-needed-projects that won't be done, because of these games. |
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Post by Low Light Mike on Sept 8, 2006 16:36:56 GMT -8
hornbyguy, I know you realize you are discriminating the NDP, was it the NDP though? Or was it all Glen Clark? I have heard from others that it was glen clark that did everything, he had the idea, he made it happen. Verbal irony Verbal irony is traditionally defined as the use of words to convey something other than, and especially the opposite of the literal meaning of the words. One classic example is a speaker saying, “What lovely weather we are having!” as she looks out at a rainstorm intending to express her dissatisfaction with the weather. However, there are examples of verbal irony that do not rely on saying the opposite of what one means, and there are cases where all the traditional criteria of irony exist and the utterance is not ironic. Verbal irony is distinguished from related phenomena such as situational irony and dramatic irony in that it is produced intentionally by speakers. For instance, if a speaker exclaims, “I’m not upset!” but reveals an upset emotional state through his voice while truly trying to claim he is not upset, it would not be verbal irony just by virtue of its verbal manifestation (it would, however, be situational irony). But if the same speaker said the same words and intended to communicate that he was upset by claiming that he was not, the utterance would be verbal irony. This distinction gets at an important aspect of verbal irony: speakers communicate implied propositions that are intentionally contradictory to the propositions contained in the words themselves. A fair amount of confusion has surrounded the issue regarding the relationship between verbal irony and sarcasm, and psychology researchers have addressed the issue directly (e.g, Lee & Katz, 1998). For example, ridicule is an important aspect of sarcasm, but not verbal irony in general. By this account, sarcasm is a particular kind of personal criticism leveled against a person or group of persons that incorporates verbal irony. For example, a person reports to her friend that rather than going to a medical doctor to treat her ovarian cancer, she has decided to see a spirtual healer instead. In response her friend says sarcastically, "Great idea! I hear they do fine work!" (Note that this could easily be spoken literally by a person who believes in spiritual healing as a legitimate treatment for cancer). The friend could have also replied with any number of ironic expressions that should not be labeled as sarcasm exactly, but still have many shared elements with sarcasm (see examples below). Research shows that most instances of verbal irony are considered to be sarcastic, suggesting that the term sarcasm is more widely used than its technical definition suggests it should be (Bryant & Fox Tree, 2002; Gibbs, 2000). Some psycholinguistic theorists suggest that sarcasm (Great idea! I hear they do fine work), hyperbole (That's best idea I have heard in years), understatement (Sure, it's only cancer), rhetorical questions (Does your soul have cancer?), and jocularity (Get them to fix your bad back while you're at it) should all be considered kinds of verbal irony (Gibbs, 2000). The differences between these tropes can be quite subtle, and relate to typical emotional reactions of listeners, and the rhetorical goals of the speakers. Regardless of the various ways folk taxomonies categorize figurative language types, people in conversation are attempting to decode speaker intentions and discourse goals, and are not generally identifying, by name, the kinds of tropes used. |
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Post by Retrovision on Sept 8, 2006 18:32:40 GMT -8
... I'm a life long NDP voter. And I still like Glen Clark. 'Nuff said. Really? Still? I'd hate to see what it takes to get on your bad side.  I too am a life long NDP voter, and am quite thankful for our new Provincial NDP leader, Carol James, and what she's already done to clean up the party in a relatively short period of time. Case in point: Recently the unions' "weighted" party votes were lightened to be equal to other members of the party. |
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Neil
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Post by Neil on Sept 8, 2006 22:03:35 GMT -8
'Nanaimo- well said on the Olympics. No need for me to add anything to that. As for irony, that Wikipedia entry is one of the better nutshell descriptions. Irony is pretty fascinating, and boy, is it misunderstood. Somebody on here once commented that it was 'ironic' that we have two members in Powell River- hell, that doesn't even qualify as a coincidence, let alone an irony, but it's no worse than examples you often hear.
'Tsawwassen- Hey, just because I like Glen Clark, doesn't mean I think he should still be Premier. I think he's doing great work as it is, masquerading as a billboard manager as he turns Jimmy Pattison into a socialist.
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Post by Retrovision on Sept 11, 2006 0:12:09 GMT -8
'Tsawwassen- Hey, just because I like Glen Clark, doesn't mean I think he should still be Premier. I think he's doing great work as it is, masquerading as a billboard manager as he turns Jimmy Pattison into a socialist. That's good to hear, but I wonder how long he'll keep the job, as last I heard he was the President of the new free Vancouver 'daily' paper "24hours." But I agree that a job that gives a socialist access to Jimmy can probably never be a bad thing. |
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Post by bcfcbccsscollector on Sept 11, 2006 7:59:57 GMT -8
Well, I haven't gone through each post line by line, but the main question is posed is "Will it work". In short, no and in short, why not (IMHO). Even if you took say the Van and converted her into a souped up "Carnival" type ship, complete with Kathie Lee cryin' out Tony Bennet tunes (Or for some on this board, DEBORAH), face it, it takes a crystal ball and $$$$$$'s, plenty of it. Gambling in BC waters is also a HUGE hurdle to overcome, if I am remembering correctly. Now, at the other end, NOBODY (Aside from a certain former premier, his name evades me  ) sinks a ton of money into something if it is not going to provide a sweet, generous return. Pardon the comparison, but there are far more "Harry Lunchbuckets" crossing the strait than "Trumps or Pattisons". Most people think the fares are too high as is and out of country interest would not sustain it either. In short, this ferry would be one of the most elaborate to be (Or ever to be) retired. Although, it might make out well tied up at North Van as a tourist attraction/museum/convention centre. Now Jimmy MIGHT think about that one, probably not. Might make for an interesting season of "The Apprentice"............ Just my two pennies........ |
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Post by ruddernut on Sept 13, 2006 19:23:33 GMT -8
How about running this luxury ferry just once a week between Downtown Vancouver and Downtown Victoria during peak tourist season?
I figure that'll meet about as much demand as there will be for this service.
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Post by bcfcbccsscollector on Sept 13, 2006 20:07:14 GMT -8
How about running this luxury ferry just once a week between Downtown Vancouver and Downtown Victoria during peak tourist season? I figure that'll meet about as much demand as there will be for this service. Well, This still would not make enough income required to recover the monies invested to renovate the the "Carnival Vancouver"..... But I guess you know that already........ |
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Neil
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Post by Neil on Sept 13, 2006 21:11:50 GMT -8
Gee, my little idea seems to be taking a fair bit of abuse here lately. You guys are going to give me some sort of (sniff) rejection complex.  I think you might be under estimating the number of : (a)- tourists with a decent amount of money (b)- locals with a decent amount of money (c)- locals without the money for a fancy vacation, but enough for an occasional treat (d)- tourists and locals who want an enjoyable crossing, with a few frills, and a guarantee of no cattle car conditions in the lounges and eating areas. If you refer back to the first post, I wasn't really talking about turning the Queen of Vancouver into a cruise ship; just dressing it up some, and adding some quality features. And I still think that there might be 5 to 10% of passengers on route 1 who would go for a more upscale crossing, to make a few round trips a week profitable. Remember- route 1 is one of the most heavily used ferry routes in the western world- you don't just have to rely on the Jimmy Pattisons to make this work. |
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Post by bcfcbccsscollector on Sept 14, 2006 7:12:05 GMT -8
Well I must say no abuse is intended here , we just have different points of view and "Agreeing to disagree" is important. Personally, it's not a bad idea. However, I still think it wouldn't be feasible. It may now be BC Ferry Services, but that route is still a continuation of a provincial highway. Alot of money would have to be put up to make the interior attractive enough with whatever services to entice the elite to take a ride. I have also seen some extremely cheap people despite having deep pockets, but this is almost sounding like a 1st class vs. steerage or coach scenario. If my tax dollars would be going toward this, I would have concern with that. Nothing like a brawl starting in a ferry terminal on a holiday weekend (Or any day for that matter) when there's a two sailing wait, and "We" watch some Joe casually glide his beemer, jag, caddy or whatever on board with room to spare, then toasting champagne from the outer deck to everyone in the parking lot, as the ship gives three short blasts of the whistle. Personally if I had the bucks I'd take Helijet, at $150-$200 per trip, alot faster and yes, I'd spring for a rental at the other end Right now my mortgage takes precedence..... Better to concentrate on eliminating the waits for everyone once and for all, not just a select group of individuals. Wouldn't you know it, six months after they do this venture, the government announces a fixed link to the island.......... |
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Neil
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Post by Neil on Sept 14, 2006 11:18:19 GMT -8
We can certainly disagree about the feasibility of this idea, but my reason for suggesting it was a way to generate extra revenue to be put back into the system, and also possibly to lessen wait times a bit for the regular service. Using tax dollars to coddle the rich was not the intent. As for fist fights in the terminals- I don't think the current reservation system has caused too much class warfare in the parking lanes, and I doubt that this would either. And with that, I think I've made my points. Such as they are. Anyway, sometime in the not too distant future, David Hahn and I are going to be standing up there at the podium at Tsawwassen, and he's going to be giving me my cheque for my great idea, and the old Queen of Vancouver, now named the 'Spirit of Hornbyguy' will be sitting there full and ready to sail. Then we'll see who's so smart. |
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) sinks a ton of money into something if it is not going to provide a sweet, generous return. Pardon the comparison, but there are far more "Harry Lunchbuckets" crossing the strait than "Trumps or Pattisons". Most people think the fares are too high as is and out of country interest would not sustain it either. In short, this ferry would be one of the most elaborate to be (Or ever to be) retired. Although, it might make out well tied up at North Van as a tourist attraction/museum/convention centre. Now Jimmy MIGHT think about that one, probably not. Might make for an interesting season of "The Apprentice"............