Neil
Voyager 
Posts: 7,180
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Post by Neil on Jun 29, 2006 22:08:22 GMT -8
Coming back to Tsawwassen on a very crowded, noisy, stuffy Spirit of Vancouver Island the other Saturday evening, I got to wondering if there might be room for a 'high end' service on route 1- for people who might be willing to pay a premium for a fancier ship with gourmet food, more amenities, and less crowding.
Here's the plan:
After the super c's are delivered and the V's are being phased out, take the V that's in the best shape, and refit it with 'club' seating, and much better finishings through out.
Have a gourmet buffet service, at a considerably higher price than on the Spirits. Replace the snack bar with a high end deli, perhaps run by one of Vancouver's better known deli firms, such as Solly's or Max's. No triple-o and chicken strips.
Obtain a casino license, and close in one of the upper deck solariums for a skylit gambling operation. Install a small coffee bar and desserts operation either in the other solarium or in the upper lounge.
Re-outfit the news/gift stand to carry some pricier BC arts and crafts. No inflatable ferry toys.
Restrict passenger capacity considerably from what it now is. No buses, and no foot passengers, unless vehicle passenger count allows it. All vehicle spaces by reservation. Commercial traffic not encouraged, although the fares would keep them away anyway. The idea would be to never have a crowded ferry.
A possibility- no children under the age of six.
The fares for this service would be twice what they are now, perhaps even higher. Even so, I think that the volume of traffic on route 1, and the unpleasantness of travelling in peak summer periods, would provide enough well heeled customers to make for a couple of round trips a day, and several trips a week in less busy times.
A new company probably couldn't afford the start up costs for such a service, but I think BC Ferries could do it. What I'm talking about here is a European style service.
Would we be able to get another ten years out of a refit V, or would a new ship be required?
Some might object to the 'elitist' slant to this idea, and I understand your concerns. I think there is room for an operation like this, though, and it could make a fair bit of money to be ploughed back into the overall system.
No, I'm not talking aircraft carriers here. I think this could work. What do you think?
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Post by Political Incorrectness on Jun 29, 2006 22:33:55 GMT -8
It would be shot down faster than Dick Cheny can shoot a partner on accident.
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Post by Low Light Mike on Jun 30, 2006 6:46:51 GMT -8
My morning-rush comments are:
- I think this has a better chance of succeeding on an existing, already-busy route, than on a new route.
ie. the Victoria-Seattle high-end casino Q-Burnaby experiment didn't work.
But Route-1 is already the busiest, so might be a good "add-on" to an already existing service.
Plus, you're not trying to convince someone to travel out of their way, to a destination that they didn't really need to go to in the first place (ie. the Seattle-Victoria tourist ferry). The route-1 experiment would be based on taking passengers who already need to travel Route-1, and giving them a more elegant option.
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Post by Low Light Mike on Jun 30, 2006 6:47:56 GMT -8
It would be shot down faster than hat Cheny can shoot a partner on accident. Dan: W H Y ?? Please elaborate, with use of logic, instead of with political rhetoric. |
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Post by Quinsam on Jun 30, 2006 9:52:40 GMT -8
The only 'V' in the excellent condition is the oldest. (Queen of Vancouver) You nearly never hear of her breaking down.
The Saanich has quite a few breakdowns every year.
The Esquimalt is in bad condition in terms of the hull itself from what I have heard.
But the Saanich is probably to become the Route 1 Truck ferry.
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Post by Political Incorrectness on Jun 30, 2006 10:50:46 GMT -8
Simply put, it would not work cause of the high price, that would make my trip 100 freakin bucks just to get from point A to B and the BCF system is much better than WSF, what more can I ask for? If you have dead empty ferries then you got a problem. You need to balance it out with how about only commerical trucks on the bottom and no motor coaches? No passenger-only? You could improve SeaWest by making the seating a bit more of relaxation and I wonder if adding a coffe-bar on both sides would help? Get a discount if you pay for the lounge?
Crazy ideas coming from the head directly to you.
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Post by Political Incorrectness on Jun 30, 2006 10:52:15 GMT -8
It would be shot down faster than hat Cheny can shoot a partner on accident. Dan: W H Y ?? Please elaborate, with use of logic, instead of with political rhetoric. You want a one page long essay on this topic? If you'll excusme, I think I need some more tan because sun here does not last long. |
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Neil
Voyager
Posts: 7,180
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Post by Neil on Jun 30, 2006 13:23:39 GMT -8
Sorry to bore you with the topic, young Dan. I promise I won't join the 'other' board and interfere with more interesting dissertations, like, what 'grinds your gears'.
I'm sure that most people wouldn't be willing to pay premium prices for a ferry crossing. What I'm saying, though, is that there may well be enough of a market of wealthier customers, or those looking for a 'treat', to make it work.
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Post by Political Incorrectness on Jun 30, 2006 14:03:27 GMT -8
Sorry, I'm rather bored and since I am stuck here these things pop up in my mind and get in the way. But you do realize that paying twice to get a vehicle over maybe a little bit rediculous IMHO. that would be I think $75 or more maybe too much. Would the better services onboard cost more or would the fare pay for it? Where is the customer base to make the service feasable and stable financially?
Might as well ask the questions since mr sarcastic requested with the "elaborate" term.
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Post by Curtis on Jun 30, 2006 14:17:09 GMT -8
Sounds Better for a longer trip like the Inside Passage or longer than that
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Post by Political Incorrectness on Jun 30, 2006 14:21:26 GMT -8
Exactly cause it is a longer voyage, if you could get people to use Duke Point-Tsawwassen, it could be feasable due to voyage time. Inside Passage is not as if you are sardines in a jar rather have more amenities. Feasability is the issue and where is the customer base to make it worth while.
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Neil
Voyager
Posts: 7,180
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Post by Neil on Jun 30, 2006 15:11:56 GMT -8
Fair enough, but look at the success of the Rocky Mountaineer train- that company is now expanding to serve Whistler. That's an expensive trip to take, but not everyone is interested in the cheapest transit from point A to B, especially if you have beautiful scenery along the way. There is a lot of spare disposable income here in the Vancouver area, and we have a lot of tourist dollars around as well, and Active Pass has always been a big attraction for ferry passengers. Build a luxury service around such a scenic route, do some combination marketing with some hotels, and you would perhaps find a lot of customers willing to pony up $150, car and two people, for a 'mini-cruise'.
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Post by Retrovision on Jun 30, 2006 16:24:20 GMT -8
Fair enough, but look at the success of the Rocky Mountaineer train- that company is now expanding to serve Whistler. That brings me to my reasoning for why I don't think your idea is likely: If they make higher-end options on base-rate services such as the essential ferry link, then they leave themselves open to people demanding that they do likewise and offer a base-rate option on their('s still) old BCRail right of way. ...The precedent is there; 'standard' (i.e. "Geyhound-style") passenger rail service had been offered from the line's conception in 1912 until Gordo and his SoCreds... err umm, BC "Liberal" party took it away from the the masses a few years ago. |
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Post by Curtis on Jun 30, 2006 16:24:44 GMT -8
Coming back to Tsawwassen on a very crowded, noisy, stuffy Spirit of Vancouver Island the other Saturday evening, I got to wondering if there might be room for a 'high end' service on route 1- for people who might be willing to pay a premium for a fancier ship with gourmet food, more amenities, and less crowding. You Also Realize there's the Seawest Lounge right? It isn't that fancy but it's a bit more of a peaceful place. Probably cause you have to pay $7.00 and who wants to pay? It's better if you just want a newspaper, a coffee, and a baked good such as a danish. |
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Post by Ferryman on Jun 30, 2006 16:41:57 GMT -8
I don't think having an entire Ferry dedicated for wealthier people wanting to be separated from the "Middle Class" people is a good idea. However, I'm not going to completely shoot you're idea down though, Hornbyguy. What might be a better idea, is to have a few more ferries like the Super C's (Two passenger decks), one deck offering all of the amenities you mentioned above for the wealthier, and the other deck having all of the normal amenities everyone's used to. This is sort of like the Seawest lounge, but only slightly modified. Also, I don't like the idea of having to pay to enter a lounge, after you're already on the Ferry, and paid the normal fares. What might work a bit better, and may encourage more customers, would be to offer the extra option of going to the "1st Class" section while paying your fares at the toll booth, and include the extra cost with the Fare. Then once you get on the Ferry, you're greeted by a crew member, and directed to which ever passenger deck you payed for.
Anyways, there's many possibilities which could be up for debate. So it could work, or it might not. Who knows, unless they try. Whether or not they ever will, maybe.
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Post by Political Incorrectness on Jun 30, 2006 18:33:49 GMT -8
With out local fast ferry company, it is an extra buck to get first class where you get complimentary stuff and priority boarding on the vessel.
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Post by DENelson83 on Jun 30, 2006 21:25:36 GMT -8
With out local fast ferry company, it is an extra buck to get first class where you get complimentary stuff and priority boarding on the vessel. What local fast ferry company? HarbourLynx? They went out of business. |
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Post by Political Incorrectness on Jun 30, 2006 21:30:42 GMT -8
Our's as in Kitsap Ferry Co. sorry I never mentioned that local as in Puget Sound local.
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Neil
Voyager
Posts: 7,180
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Post by Neil on Jun 30, 2006 21:53:30 GMT -8
Chris: I share your discomfort over the 'class' thing, and that"s why I feel a dedicated 'premium' ship would be the best way to offer a service like this, rather than dividing people into groups on the same boat.
PR Teen: Yes, I'm aware of the Seawest Lounge, but it's only one lounge, and I'm thinking of something much more comprehensive.
My little proposal may well be a lame idea, but just for fun, I'm going to send it to BC Ferries. I'm quite sure that I won't get anything back other than the likely "thank you for your interest in BC Ferries blah blah blah", but if I do, I'll let you all know.
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Post by Scott on Jun 30, 2006 22:28:46 GMT -8
I think something like this could work. How about building a vessel based on some of the old Princess ships?  It could make a few trips between downtown Vancouver and Victoria per day and do some Gulf Island excursions at non-peak times. It's a bit different than your idea.. and probably a lot more expensive. But I think there are a lot of people in this area now (residents and tourists) with whom money is not really an issue. If they could gaurentee that you wouldn't have to wait in any line-ups and made the ship comfortable and, idealy, faster... then you might have a good niche market to take advantage of. It's a bit like the WMG idea to run the PacifiCats... but I guess they figured it wasn't worth it. |
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Neil
Voyager
Posts: 7,180
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Post by Neil on Sept 7, 2006 20:43:37 GMT -8
Just an update I sent my suggestion to BC Ferries for a 'premium' service, and they just now sent me a form reply saying that "BC Ferries appreciates customer input, and my suggestions had been forwarded to senior management" blah blah blah. Oh well. It's not like I was expecting to see a news story announcing the conversion of the Queen of Vancouver into a cruise ferry, along with a cheque for $10,000 for my excellent idea... If David Hahn invites me to lunch to talk things over, I'll let you know.  |
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Post by guest on Sept 8, 2006 13:37:34 GMT -8
You know, there is three so called fast ferries sitting at a certain North Van shipyard that
could be reffitted to offer this service.
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Neil
Voyager
Posts: 7,180
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Post by Neil on Sept 8, 2006 14:46:25 GMT -8
Bite your tongue, man! Those ferries were built by those evil, nasty, incompetent NDPers, and there's no way that we EVER want to admit that they could be put to ANY useful purpose!
By the way: anyone care to speculate how many multiples of the fast ferry cost over run the Olympics budget is going to balloon by? I'll start the guessing at ten times.
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Post by Political Incorrectness on Sept 8, 2006 15:21:17 GMT -8
hornbyguy, I know you realize you are discriminating the NDP, was it the NDP though? Or was it all Glen Clark? I have heard from others that it was glen clark that did everything, he had the idea, he made it happen.
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Neil
Voyager
Posts: 7,180
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Post by Neil on Sept 8, 2006 16:09:37 GMT -8
Mugshot: Sorry. I keep forgetting, I need to put a 'smiley face' in whenever I'm not being serious. *sigh.* Although, it would be nice if I didn't have to.
I've ranted enough about the 'cats elsewhere. A good idea gone wrong, for various reasons. I'm a life long NDP voter. And I still like Glen Clark. 'Nuff said.
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It could make a few trips between downtown Vancouver and Victoria per day and do some Gulf Island excursions at non-peak times. It's a bit different than your idea.. and probably a lot more expensive. But I think there are a lot of people in this area now (residents and tourists) with whom money is not really an issue. If they could gaurentee that you wouldn't have to wait in any line-ups and made the ship comfortable and, idealy, faster... then you might have a good niche market to take advantage of. It's a bit like the WMG idea to run the PacifiCats... but I guess they figured it wasn't worth it.
