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Post by Alex on Aug 13, 2006 16:13:25 GMT -8
In seriousness, I swear I saw a security guard on the Queen of Alberni last weekend. It was the 3:15 (or so) from Duke Point on the 7th. I was going to the bathroom right before we docked at Tsawwassen, and a BCF employee (a rather large, strong looking guy) with a radio was walking through the bathroom checking the stalls.
What up?
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Post by Dane on Aug 13, 2006 20:58:38 GMT -8
Perhaps he was seeing if they were clean? |
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Post by kylefossett on Aug 13, 2006 21:00:51 GMT -8
all deckhands and i believe almost all cleaners all have a 2way radio with them
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Post by BrianWilliams on Aug 14, 2006 22:57:23 GMT -8
" flying to America - NOT Canada. "
Perhaps that shows these morons' lack of imagination. If Islamic warriors wanted to strike a real blow at their perceived enemies, they'd continue a terror campaign against Egypt and Turkey, two countries that are trying hard to be modern, prosperous democracies.
The jihadists have murdered too many people in Egypt and Turkey, but their attacks don't get headline news on Fox and CNN until Americans are threatened.
Perhaps we North Americans are the terrorists' best allies. We freak out with Red Alerts, and humbly accept shoe searches, and two-hour waits for 90 minute flights.
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Post by BrianWilliams on Aug 14, 2006 23:18:13 GMT -8
PS to last post:
All of Canada's carriers, in my opinion, will do best by ignoring terrorist threats. If we freak out, and fluoroscope every BC Ferries' passenger; x-ray every truck loaded on BCF; and frisk every walk-on ... we'll find nothing.
Our sailings will be an hour longer, the company will lose more money; and fanatics half the world away will laugh at our gullibility.
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Post by EGfleet on Aug 15, 2006 10:03:59 GMT -8
PS to last post: All of Canada's carriers, in my opinion, will do best by ignoring terrorist threats. If we freak out, and fluoroscope every BC Ferries' passenger; x-ray every truck loaded on BCF; and frisk every walk-on ... we'll find nothing. Our sailings will be an hour longer, the company will lose more money; and fanatics half the world away will laugh at our gullibility. We're the center of the universe, don't ya know!  Seriously however, I get so tired of this reactionary government...now I hear that the bush admin pressured the UK into making the arrests when they did. They wanted to wait a week to make sure the case was air-tight against them...it now seems that some of that might be in jeopardy because they were rushed. You know what to me was the biggest slap in the face from the good old US? Last year we jumped to MarSec 2 after the UK underground bombings. Okay, fair enough, that might have been warrented...however, several months earlier, when the trains in Spain were blown apart, nothing happened here. The difference? The current leader of Spain disagreed with Bush and pulled out their troops in Iraq. Coincidence? I still think bomb sniffing dogs roaming the parking lots are a good idea...after all, whatshisname did bring a trunk load of explosives across from Victoria on the Coho. A dog would have caught that on the Victoria side. Only a very alert customs agent in Port Angeles thought he was acting funny and pulled him over for inspection and found the explosives. And I'm kicking myself for not remembering his name... |
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Post by Political Incorrectness on Aug 15, 2006 11:15:02 GMT -8
Cascade there is only one route that is near the American Navy here, you cannot run a ferry into Microsoft because it is on land like Boeing. I wonder why terrorists have not targeted stadiums yet? Those have got to be the easiest targets. I am not going into details, if you wish for some more, feel free to send me a PM, cause if I tell, Bush may want to come after me because he is going into the Middle East and we are locked in for 40 years.
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Post by SS San Mateo on Aug 15, 2006 11:33:10 GMT -8
I still think bomb sniffing dogs roaming the parking lots are a good idea...after all, whatshisname did bring a trunk load of explosives across from Victoria on the Coho. A dog would have caught that on the Victoria side. Only a very alert customs agent in Port Angeles thought he was acting funny and pulled him over for inspection and found the explosives. And I'm kicking myself for not remembering his name... His name is Ahmed Ressam. |
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Post by Political Incorrectness on Aug 15, 2006 11:39:34 GMT -8
If there is any secrets then I guess not. If you had half of the RVs that park outside a football stadium and think if it was the SuperBowl. Think of how much explosives that could be set off. I believe that is not a problem now once you think of it if you keep them a certain distance away from the stadium. Anytime you take a car aboard the ferries, you are scanned for explosives, but if you are just getting on and not in line, then you are not scanned for explosives. That is the big flaw of this.
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Post by BrianWilliams on Aug 16, 2006 0:17:52 GMT -8
The 30-yr old thriller novel and movie "Black Sunday" suggested a stadium massacre. Hijack the Goodyear blimp before Super Bowl kickoff, pack the gondola with explosives and fly into the stadium.
Thank goodness no one has tried it.
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Post by poeticlives on Aug 17, 2006 20:40:10 GMT -8
Ugh! No...
Targeting a stadium would be the wrong idea.
I don't think terrorists want to portray themselves as anything but political.
They see themselves as martyrs- not tyrants attempting to stamp out joy in life- what message does a stadium attack really send?
Think of all different ethnic groups and beliefs would be there-just the ignominy of standing up to something, an event that wouldn't in the least effect you, where a lot of people there are probably of your own beliefs set and just enjoying themselves, not at a place like a centre of economics- not that I am justifying the WTC diasters in ANY way.
Simply, I think it says they're interested in ethnocide. It says they are bringing the fight to western countries doorsteps, and that this is no longer in defence of invasions to their homelands.
There are a lot of Muslims and other religious groups here who would definitely say this is too far- Radicalist to any degree or not.
And maybe some others in home countries will start to back down.
There is a point whether the path of destruction winds out of your sight and out of control.
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Post by Low Light Mike on Aug 17, 2006 20:42:45 GMT -8
Ugh! No... Targeting a stadium would be the wrong idea. Instead of targetting the SuperBowl, they should target the MTV Teen-Choice Awards. (disclaimer that obviously this is an attempt at humour re the distain for today's trendy pop stars.....and I don't suggest that terrorists target anything). |
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Post by poeticlives on Aug 17, 2006 21:13:50 GMT -8
Fine! Selective event attacks then  My heart-strings just get plucked very easily on these matters. But an event attack I see not as misguided radicalist doctrine, or hate, but just pure evil- no rationalisation or intelligence required. And I think BrianWilliams theorised earlier on that "ignoring" terrorists threats is the best way to avoid them. I certainly agree with avoiding fuss and conducting covert investigations. No restrictions out of the ordinary (post 9/11) were made as the people plotting to plant liquid explosives on planes were being investigated. After the arrests were made, it went on lockdown, so that no one could follow-up on the plot. Very professional. No time was given for the terrorists to adjust their plan. |
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Post by poeticlives on Aug 17, 2006 21:16:42 GMT -8
HERE is what I want to say! Can't we all just sit down and have a pint??? I got the idea looking at my own avatar. I mean, hell, what could terrorists do drunk anyway? The IRA probably couldn't be subdued with this counterterrorist effort (They are Irish after all), but we should try it on the Middle Easterners |
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Post by BrianWilliams on Aug 18, 2006 2:08:56 GMT -8
In May 1998, Jeannie and I rambled the Republic of Ireland for three weeks.
It was a wonderful time to be there; my first visit since 1972. The subdued, grey country I remembered had blossomed into a prosperous, happy land.
The Irish folks were as welcoming as always, but several things had changed. Ireland had taken a proud, justified place in the world, thanks largely to ex-President Mary Robinson's high post in the UN. I found that sharing a pint in a pub with ordinary Irish people was brightened when I said, "So, your Mary Robinson's doin' good things in the world, yeah?"
Irish country workers with cowfudge on their boots were very well informed about Ms Robinson, and had a good grip on global affairs as well. Smart people.
Best of all, early 1998 was the time of the Good Friday Accords. The coming June referendum was an all-Republic / all-Ulster vote on ending 75 years of pointless hostility. The Republic agreed to end all support for anti-Brit terrorists; the UK agreed to abide by a decision to unite Ulster with the Republic. The referendum did pass: 90+% in the Republic and more than 75% in Northern Ireland.
As tourists, it was great to see YES! banners all over Dublin, and also in every town we visited in the Republic. In Northern Ireland, we saw almost as many big YES! signs ... but the terrorists won in the end.
In our last week, end of May, Jeannie and I were in Ballyshannon, Fermanagh. I suggested we should cross into Ulster at Beleek, stop at Omagh for the great outdoor museum, ramble on to Bushmills, see the Giant's Causeway, and then follow the Antrim coast road down to Belfast. A couple of nights in the UK, a speedy run down the M-1, then we'd have almost a week to finish in Dublin.
Jeannie was horrified. "Ulster! That's bandit country - terrorists, bombings, car-jackings, murder."
"Oh, silly woman" I said, "that's all over now. There's peace, everyone has agreed. Haven't you read the papers?"
Whoops. We left Ballyshannon on a quiet Sunday morning for the 30-minute drive to the border at Belleek. There are no big highways in rural Ireland. Our road was two narrow lanes of bumpy asphalt. An unarmed Irish Garda (policeman) waved us down near the frontier. "The town's closed, and ye'll have to go back."
Peace, oh yeah. Late Saturday night, someone fired a mortar into Belleek town from the UK side. No one hurt, but the whole border was a hot zone.
The Garda asked for our ID and an explanation of our trip. Together, we spread my tourist map of NW Ireland on the car's hood. "Well, ye can go this way: see that little track in green? Go back a half-mile, turn at the old farmhouse and keep on for a bit. Ye'll see the abandoned border post a couple miles along; keep going, and ye'll join the Omagh road right after."
-What about the border?- I said -Don't we have to report to someone?-
"Oh no, we don't do that anymore."
Jeannie was terrified. There's a shooting war on, and a cop tells us to sneak over the border. It turned out fine. We passed a small fortress of corrugated iron and sandbags, overgrown with bushes; that's the only way we knew we were in the UK.
Later, on the main road, a long convoy of British Army armour passed, heading for Belleek. We visited the town of Omagh and its marvellous outdoor museum, got mildly blitzed at the Bushmills distillery (BIG sample shots of 7 whiskies), hiked the cliffs at the Giant's Causeway and sent the next two days in Ulster quite happily.
That was May 1998. In mid-August that year, 28 people were killed and 220 injured in the worst single attack of all Ireland's long troubles. In small Omagh, the sleepy town we enjoyed so much after our border scare.
The 1998 reconciliation, sadly, was wrecked by Omagh massacre.
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Post by Scott on Aug 19, 2006 13:22:37 GMT -8
Ugh! No... Targeting a stadium would be the wrong idea. I don't think terrorists want to portray themselves as anything but political. They see themselves as martyrs- not tyrants attempting to stamp out joy in life- what message does a stadium attack really send? Think of all different ethnic groups and beliefs would be there-just the ignominy of standing up to something, an event that wouldn't in the least effect you, where a lot of people there are probably of your own beliefs set and just enjoying themselves, not at a place like a centre of economics- not that I am justifying the WTC diasters in ANY way. The terrorists attacking Isreal over many years see no problem bombing nightclubs, markets, beaches, etc. And they don't care whether they kill Jews, Muslims, or Christians... although the more Jews or Americans, the better (in their opinion). |
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Post by poeticlives on Aug 19, 2006 23:19:59 GMT -8
Alright then.
So they're just anarchists without a cause. There is just no point to that. And you prove my point of racial diversity in such a setting- not a place you would find "enemies" per se.
I simply assume they like killing. It's indisciminatory and impractical. And when you consider that most are destitute 18 year olds that have only been told that life is suffering, and sacrifice for an abstract uncomirmed prize (a host of virgins at the pearly gates) is better, you know that any level-headed older individual knows there is a better path. But terrorists wouldn't recruit on level-headness... not by our standards anyway.
"I tell you what, now that you've been received into adulthood, strap some of this stuff to your vest and go nuts... it'll be a totally explosive experience!"
Isn't it smart to bomb the nightclubs and not something, like, I dunno, a military base... they do those too, but there's a point where I say, "A little too many kamikaze videogames (and possibly extremist brainwashing)"
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Post by poeticlives on Aug 19, 2006 23:31:04 GMT -8
BrianWilliams,
Thank you for your provocative, ultimately saddening, yet still entertaining story.
If we kill enough people, we'll move right back into the Dark Ages...
On a trivial note (because it's what I do best)- Have we tried marijuana yet? Irish terrorists are bred on Guinness, but if we arranged negotiations with some Saltspring Pacifists...
I'm just picturing them all friends after a few hours... better yet, legalisation of the anti-depressant in Ireland if it isn't already.
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Neil
Voyager 
Posts: 7,307
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Post by Neil on Aug 20, 2006 10:04:58 GMT -8
To deal effectively with your foe, you have to understand them.
Powerful forces in the west, along with regular people, have made little effort to understand radical forces in the middle east. We patronize them, trivialize them, demonize them- and they continue to grow in strength, and hatred for the west, America in particular, builds.
If I were an Iranian, I would have a deep, abiding hatred for Americans; for how they sabotaged a democratically elected government in the 1950's and installed the puppet Shah, all to protect oil interests. If I were a Palestinian, I would probably see the Israelis as the thieves of my ancestral homeland, and the Americans as their fat cat financiers. Hezbollah would not be 'terrorists', but rather, heroic freedom fighters, doing what they have to do to combat a vastly more powerful enemy. Commando strikes, such as those against the World Trade Centre, might not be seen as any worse than what has been happening, in a less spectacular way, to countless Iraqi men, women, and children, since the Americans invaded there.
I'm not for a second defending these people. But if you remain willfully ignorant about the spirit and motivation of a resourceful foe, you'll be defeated by them. We're having to put up with an increasing number of security procedures everywhere as the perceived threat of attack grows. That will never lessen until our ignorance does.
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Post by poeticlives on Aug 20, 2006 16:17:03 GMT -8
Good points.
Although we know that the Israelis haven't exactly had a picnic protecting their homeland.
And the Hezbollah fighters of today weren't even born when the Israelis established their nation. They are not militant, and hateful of themselves- they are taught to be.
And I would expect pandora's box to plague the americans after all their meddling.
War is never productive though. If we're to end this, it must come from compromise and diplomacy.
Israel is not going to dissolve. Palestinians will just have to deal with that. Israel will have to accomodate palestinians and muslims in general within its borders. I think in a peaceful future it could be an Islamic-Jewish state- two official religions.
We seem to be getting along with Quebec here in Canada- for nigh on 40 years. There's precedent!
If they were following their religions anyway, there wouldn't be war. All religions are pacifist, right?
How can we tie this back to BCF Security measurex now? lol
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Neil
Voyager
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Post by Neil on Aug 20, 2006 16:36:00 GMT -8
Excellent points all, C.U. Israel isn't going anywhere, that's for sure.
As for getting back to the topic, maybe this is just one of those topics that's bound to stray, since there isn't really a lot of security on the ferries to talk about. Unless we're considering putting AK-47's in the parking lots to deal with queue jumpers.
I've complained about threads getting lost, but I'm as guilty as anyone. Maybe it's just the organic nature of conversation.
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Post by poeticlives on Aug 20, 2006 17:12:07 GMT -8
Hmm... very eloquent hornbyguy.
A conversation is just an aimless cloud, into which we quite often thrust our heads.
One thing we can certainly do is set an example- be as inclusive and communicative of issues between communities here on the West Coast. We have to make a climate that is the least conducive to birthing extremism.
I love our diversity here. To think of all the different cultures I have gone to school with, for instance. I'm not going to go to war with these people! No way- and I think I've established I'm pretty harmless too.
I recently went to Alberta for the Edmonton Folk Festival, and missed B.C. very much for that reason.
Anyways, at least we can say to terrorists that BC Ferries has already rammed a ferry into a dock!
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Post by poeticlives on Aug 22, 2006 19:35:03 GMT -8
I'm awaiting Hornbyguy's rebuttal- it should be coming soon...
Oh, Canada's been targeted. It's been mentioned in Al Qaida threats, and there have been internal turmoil as well.
Recently, 17 muslims were arrested in Toronto planning an attack. You might not have known that Cascade.
Yes- why would someone want to sink a ferry? It's like attacking stadiums- what joyless (fill in blanks). There's no point to it, and I guess the closest explanation besides sociopathic idiocy, is that they are protesting their lack of the skill necessary to play professional sport.
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Post by Dane on Aug 22, 2006 19:50:06 GMT -8
Where there are a lot of people there is a security risk.
We have security in Canadian society almost no-where.
Why start now?
Statistically speaking Canada has had the least terrorism in it's existance over the last 20 years. Go Crim degree! woot. LOL
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Post by poeticlives on Aug 22, 2006 20:07:30 GMT -8
Where there are a lot of people there is a security risk. We have security in Canadian society almost no-where. That's right Dane. However, given Canada's land area, especially compared to European and Asian countries, we have people almost no-where... Except for cities... let's hope Toronto is as protected as it has proven so far- as for the others, pray they won't be targeted, or they're ready. |
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