Possible Purchases to Replace the Q. of the North

[Retrovision]

I thought that now would be a good time to start considering the possibility of a chartered or purchased vessel, considering that the last news-release on the matter confirmed that BCFS is looking. In the QPR to returns thread, I went into a little detail about another former Stena liner (that used to run between Yarmouth N.S. and Protland Mayne) that might be being eyed by BCFS. Well, here's some more on the same ship:

As mentioned in the other thread, here is the page on her history (sorry, it's in Sweedish):
www.faktaomfartyg.com/stena_olympica_1972.htm

...And the website where she's for sale:
www.shiplink.info/contents1.asp?refno=8052

You will notice certain key details on this page, such as:

13. SOLAS:
Built to SOLAS 1960 Part H,
Lengthened in 1986 in accordance with
1981 amendments to SOLAS 1974

13. COMPARTMENTS: 2 Compartment Vessel

14. STABILITY BOOKS: Date of Official Stamp: 12-13-96
Built to A1 / Amax1 = 97.54 %

15. CAPACITY: 1200 Persons, max 1000 Passengers
16. SPEED: Estimated Speed 19.0 Knots
Service Speed 18.0 Knots.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Her original length and look:



Her original interior floor plan (pre-lengthening):



What she now looks like:

[Shane]

She seems a bit big for the northern runs.

[Retrovision]

Desperate Times Call for Desperate Measures

...And I'd assume that this ship would meet TC requirements, considering that her route was to Yarmouth, N.S., and she regularly crossed a body of water quite similar to Hecate Straight (although I would think the principle Queen Charlottes ship would be the QPR in this scenario, even the QPR, as was the case before the QotN sunk, needs a ship to fill in from time to time).

[Curtis]

Would be a good ship for the route but they would need the QPR and Chilliwack up there more since she wouldn't fit in the docks too bad she was streched

[Retrovision]

prqueenkid16 said:

Would be a good ship for the route but they would need the QPR and Chilliwack up there more since she wouldn't fit in the docks too bad she was streched

She has the same docking configuration as the Queen of the North; after all, she's a near cousin. I think that the real problem would be maneuverability where the berths are located.

[Gunther]

And Service Speed, she is a full 2 knots slower at service speed than the QoTN was...

However, I think this ship is a possibility, and with her abundance of space they could increase the number of cabins (something that the Northern Ships have had complaints about).

[Koastal Karl]

yeah she would be good replacement ship! She just reminds me of a bigger version of the Queen of the North!

[Retrovision]

Some Beauty shots of the Scotia Prince:

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . .



Car Deck:




Her former, Hecate-Straight-similar route:

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .


Here's an eye-opening article about the company's problems:
www.workingwaterfront.com/article.asp?storyID=20040204
--But don't be fooled, this article is from 2004



Here is an english page about her history:
www.simplonpc.co.uk/StenaOlympica1972.html



And 'yes,' just to confirm, the 'Prince is capable of both bow (shown at her former Portland terminal):



...and stern loading:







Although I doubt we'll be seeing this any time soon:






And finally, her former terminal at Yarmouth, Nova Scotia. Although the 'Prince loaded via the bow / stern, she tied-up, at both Portland and Yarmouth, starboard-to:

[Neil]

Chances are this vessel has the same basic hull structure as Queen of The North; I wonder if BC Ferries would consider purchasing, or even leasing short term, a vessel with the same design weakness.

[Dane]

Firstly, it's not a weak design. If the North had a million compartments she'd still sink in that situation, only so much water weight can be sustained by a vessel.

Secondly, just because a ship has been sailing in Canada does not mean it will meet TC regulations. As soon as BCF makes any modifications, and that's basically a given that they'll have too, the ship will have to recertify to current regs.

[Neil]

You're right, Dane. What I was thinking of was that it is most likely a single hulled vessel, like the 'North, and the optics wouldn't be good in a public relations sense, after BC Ferries has committed to replacing the northern vessels with ships which meet the most modern structural safety standards.

[NMcKay]

shes too old

1970 something

[Low Light Mike]

Nice find, Graham. That was an interesting study, with the deck plans etc.

I agree with Nick, something newer would be better.....but it would be great to see a ship that size, with more amenities than Q-North had.

I think they need to have a larger ship than Q-North, to allow for some growth. Not way larger...but a bit.

[Retrovision]

I'd have to agree with the fact that this ship is unsuitable for outright-purchase. From what I've read (on that forum, among other places), the situation for the owner of the ship is dire, as the ship's number one source of revenue has been shut-out by Portland, Maine, and that the owners, therefore, might be more open to offering the 'Prince for charter; this would fit plans to have custom ships built, as was originally planned, in the mean time.

[Neil]

It's probably fair to sum up current public perception of the Queen of The North's sinking by saying, the incident was due to human error, and the ship sunk like a rock partly due to it's outmoded, single hull design. That may turn out to be nonsense, but I think that's the popular view. The public definately has trust issues with BC Ferries right now, as evidenced by some reports of snarky remarks made to crew, and people's increased awareness of ship safety features. Given that reality, BC Ferries probably doesn't want to be purchasing, or chartering, any thirty odd year old ship and asking the public to go on faith that the same accident couldn't happen again. Not only do they not have to make the right acquisition, they have to be perceived to be making the right one, and it might be preferable, in their point of view, to run a barge service to Skidegate, rather than have to explain to the media why they've picked up a ferry that might have the same structure as one they've admitted is no longer acceptable. My totally uneducated guess is that they're looking for something much newer, and if they don't find it, they'll improvise with what they've got and try to deal somehow with the wrath of the tourist industry, and north coast residents.

[Shane]

I was just thinking, here is a ship that BCF could possibly buy.
www.maritimesales.com/JA11.htm
The Northern Princess
Mabye they can do a small refit and add some cabins.

[Balfour]

It's small and it's too old.

[Political Incorrectness]

It is not worth pouring money into an old vessel that is only going to be around for three years. The only time it would be worth it if it was spending ten years.

[Doug]

Actually it may be...remember how cheap the Victoria sold for ($500,000), and it was a big ship in BC Ferries-mint condition. Older ferries are practically worthless nowadays...I don't think you'd ever sell one for the net value. So this one may be going for cheap.

[WettCoast]

I think that it might be reasonable to charter this vessel, the Scotia Prince, for a couple of summers. It appears as though it would do for the Inside Passage route, though its service speed is a little slow, it has too many cabins if used primarily in a "day cruise" operation as was the QotN, is larger than needed, and may have issues navigating into some of the docks [Bear Cove, Skidegate?]. I expect that it would also burn a lot more fuel than the QotN.

Due to its age purchasing would not make sense.

Contrary to what was said above it's hull configuration [2 compartment] is NOT the same as the QotN [single compartment]. It would also be useful for someone to explain to the media and public in general just what is meant by this term - single compartment, double compartment, etc. People have been led to believe that the QotN was without water tight compartments.

[Doug]

Check out this website: www.scotiaprince.com/ .

After taking a closer look at the vessel, I've noticed that it may well suit the North's old route. And being a close cousin to the North, the stretched version doesn't look bad at all.

For those of you who say it's too large; you should try taking the Inside Passage in the summer. Every day is booked up a month before. The winter is the only problem; perhaps they could use it as a cheaper cruise ship out of Horseshoe Bay or something...?

[Retrovision]

ferrymaniac101 said:

It is not worth pouring money into an old vessel that is only going to be around for three years.

The "fastest fast-track," as BC - CTV 9 Victoria Bureau-Chief Jim Beatty said the day after the incident, was 2 years from now.

[Doug]

There are some qualities about the Scotia Prince that aren't as good as the North...such as:

• shorter nose bow,
  
• non-terraced passenger deck (of the bow),
  
• no upper solarium,
  
• and the stern has "steeper" terraces.
  

Also another feature that makes every ferry look better (such as the "V", "C" Class and the North) is the solid steel railing above the bridge rather than a regular fence.

But, it still does look exceptionally good as compared to say, SOME (just for chivapcici) modern-day European ferries.

[Ferryman]

Well what happened to the (The North was IIa) Danica IIb, and Danica III? I thought I saw the Danica IIb for sale on a website somewhere.....

[Dane]

ferrymaniac101 said:

It is not worth pouring money into an old vessel that is only going to be around for three years. The only time it would be worth it if it was spending ten years.

Agreed. I wish it weren't the case, but dollars speak louder than words.