New Routes - Where ?

[Low Light Mike]

[quote author=alex board=generaltalk thread=1137691721 post=1138142625[/quote]I think thats a bit harsh on some of the people here. You have to remember that there's a bunch of people in their early teens, so you can't expect real world knowledge. As for many others, we don't live in many of these areas and islands, so there's no way to tell who wants to go where. [/quote]

I don't mind a bit of inexperience or even naivety (sorry about the spelling)......but I expect those persons putting forward naive or impractical ideas to at least be willing to discuss those ideas, when we ask them questions.

I don't like it when something odd is suggested, and then the person refuses to elaborate on their idea.

[Ferryman]

cascade said:

Chris -
Have you though of land reclamation for the Nanoose - Parksville area ? Think about the dredging that is going on between James and Sidney Island - this cost around $400,000 to clear the channel - in return they go out into the Strait and just dump it. So why not move it to a location where a terminal could be built. Yes there could be a problem with long shore drift. As for First Nation Land - do a deal - as Federal funding will run out at some time, and they need income. You don't need a lot of "shore line" to built a terminal - if you build out to sea. It is done a lot in Europe as our shore line is also very expensive - so we go out to the sea.

The figures I have for the dredging between James and Sidney Island will infill a 5 acre site - and according to WMG - that is all they need for there terminal to run a FastCat program.

Cascade,
I only brought up the idea of the Parksville idea in respose to Ultra Walkers idea. The residents of that area would make sure that there wouldn't be any Ferry Terminals built on their sandy beaches anyway. Which is understandable anyway, because I, myself enjoy going to those beaches. But there's been that worry for alot of people with getting that "cryptococcus" (excuse the spelling) anyway.
Nanaimo has a great shoreline for ship ports I think. Seeming it is "The Harbour City". I'm not too sure if you heard about this, Cascade, but the Sawmill in Nanaimo is closing at about the same time Woodfibre does I believe. (Correct me if I'm wrong guys). But as you probably know, as you are, like myself, a former Islander, know that this mill is right on the waterfront. This mill will most likely be dismantled like Woodfibre is. So there's a good opportunity for a Ferry Terminal site on that property, if there isn't any plans for it already. I'm not too sure if there would need to be and dreding done because it's near the mouth of the Nanaimo River. I don't know why WMG doesn't jump on this because it would probably be a better location to put a ferry terminal because would have direct access off of the old Island Highway. There wouldn't be much point trying to operate a ferry to the Mainland any farther North than Nanaimo, because the Comox run is empty as it is.

[Doug]

Of course Parksville would be a bad idea itself, but between it and Nanaimo there may be a location for a causeway...but this won't happen so there is no need to go on.

[Scott]

Like Cascade said, parts of Nanoose Bay would be okay probably. The area between Lantzville and Nanoose Bay is still fairly lightly populated compared to the surrounding areas. Also there the highway is relatively close to the water. I don't know about water depth, but if you stayed out of the bay itself, it might not be so bad. Beaches are a problem in some areas, but there is a lot of rocky coastline too.

Parksville isn't going to happen. Too many people live there, there's no where to build it, there are big beaches in most places. Going north you've got Rathtrevor Beach, the Englishman River estuary (protected), Parksville Beach,... then you've got rocky shoreline between there and the French Creek marina. But that's all filled in with established neighbourhoods. There's no room at French Creek for a major ferry terminal. Maybe they could fit in a small terminal there to handle the same amount of traffic as the Gabriola Island ferry. If Lasqueti ever develops and needs a car ferry, French Creek could probably handle it, but nothing bigger than that.

Anything north of Parksville is too far out of the way. I'm just taking an educated guess here, but the population on the Island can be divided into three. Nanaimo has about 10% of it, north of Nanaimo would be 20-25%, and south of Nanaimo would be 65-70%. So you don't want to go too far north of Nanaimo for a new terminal.

[Scott]

cascade said:

Alex,
Here is another idea - what about a single car/pax ferry to service say three new routes on alternative days - as there is a lack of cars on these island - but people need a daily service - so run a pax only service on a daily run - say 3x 20m fast ferries that carry around 90 passengers, and the car/pax ferry moves around and services the car market on set days.
A 20M 90 pax fast ferry would cost around $2.5M and a Ferry 70M x 20M would cost $10M, you now have 3 routes been serviced for a fraction of the cost of replacing 4 vessels.

That could be a good idea. Which Islands would you be thinking of? There is at least one pax only ferry company on the Southern Gulf Islands - Gulf Islands Water Taxi - but it only serves the main islands on a schedule. And of course there are a number of small companies that operate smaller barge type boats that can handle a few cars or freight.

I know Gulf Islanders, and to a lesser extent Vancouver Islanders, are quite "protectionistic" of their lifestyle. They don't want a lot more people coming to their island.. they want to keep it "natural".. they way it's always been. But how long is this going to last? Lasqueti, Gambier, Valdez... eventually their population will probably get bigger.

Of course there's also the First Nations question. They own a lot of land on some of these Islands. What will they do with their land in the future? Will they try to develop it? Build some resorts, sell/lease some land for big bucks? I don't know what they can and can't do, but with new Native agreements in the coming years hopefully, things could change on that front as well.

[Doug]

Well unless you want to get your ass blown out of the water I suggest you keep a distance of Nanoose Bay.

[Scott]

Well, we could equip the Queen of Oak Bay with depth charges...

[Ferryman]

admin said:

I think if someone wanted to, they could start a profitable cruise/ferry between Campbell River and Prince Rupert.. or Port Hardy and Prince Rupert. If it was advertised well, I'm sure there would be lots of people who would want to go on it. Of course the cruise ships are competition for the northern routes as well, but if you could package trips with tours of the islands, adventure trips, etc. it would probably work. The so called Great Bear Rainforest... the Kermodies... and there could be lots of opportunities for the Natives up there to "sell" their culture to tourists. In my opinion, there is a lot of growth potential on the Northern routes.

The above quote is copied from the Privitization of Services thread....

Campbell River would be a great place to operate the North Routes. The problem I'm seeing with the service operating to Port Hardy, is that it's out of the way. I've actually never experienced the Island beyond Campbell River, but I've heard the Highway between there and Port Hardy isn't the greatest. But seeming you get get up to Campbell River in about an hour and a half or so from Nanaimo (I think) on the new highway, people would probably want to travel on the Inside Passage/Discovery Coast routes, because of the highway. Now I know this is easier said than done, but I really think that if BCF wants the Northern Routes to be a popular attraction for customers, they should move their terminal at Port Hardy to Campbell River. The sailing time may be a bit longer, but the route would be just a bit more interesting. Like going through that popular pass......I can't believe I just forgot the name.....the one where they had to blow up the rocks in the middle of the pass to allow more ships to go through without grounding.....It's probably a simple name, I just can't remember it off of the top of my head.....Ripple Rock...??
Also, another benefit to this route is that the Cruise ships are starting to stop at Campbell River. So if tourists wanted to, they could disembark the cruise ship, and hop on to the Ferry to Prince Rupert, and over time, they would be able to connect with another Cruise ship at Prince Rupert.
The Highway to Prince Rupert on the Mainland end isn't the greatest either, so a round trip would be the popular choice for most people. BC Ferries or any other company could make a good dime off of that route if they took a good look into better location for terminals, along with better advertising.

[Quinsam]

Ripple Rock is the name, as the bomb caused ripples in the water.

[Quinsam]

And I agree with you, Campbell River is a good place to start the route, or maybe little river, that terminal is only used for the Burnaby.

[Low Light Mike]

welwyn said:

Ripple Rock is the name, as the bomb caused ripples in the water.

I think that the rocks were named "ripple" long before the explosion in the 1950's. I think the name likely originates from the whirlpools and strong currents at Seymour Narrows.

[kylefossett]

dougubell said:

Well unless you want to get your ass blown out of the water I suggest you keep a distance of Nanoose Bay.

Whiskey Gulf(nanoose test range) is not always active. monitor vhf 22b or wx 3 for active times and dates. the actual bay at nanoose is accesible at all times. just don't get to close to the naval vessels there. especially the american ones when you are flying your al qaeda flag

[Doug]

Actually Chris, the highway beyond Campbell River is not the improved Island Highway Glen Clark built. Also remember that the Inside Passage and Discovery Coast Passage are circle tours, and the towns of Port Hardy and McNeill tourist industry depends on that ferry link. However, a competitive new operator may be wise to use a terminal in Campbell River.

[Doug]

The Natives...oh god...where do I start.

I read about a small town in northern Ontario called "Kashechewan", which was being infected by a strain of Ecoli. The reason for this was a sewage problem, actually a "sewage lagoon" ABOVE their water treatment plant.

First of all, why the hell would you build an open sewage lagoon above your water supply? It's bad enough that it's open and basically in a hole in the ground, but having it above your water supply is nonsense. So now they are expecting the federal government to airlift them all out (which at this time, there is almost no choice, but this could have been prevented in the first place) and build them a new town...which they will probably screw up once again.

There was another newly-built town in Newfoundland by the federal government. But because of their personal stupidity, many of them are "sniffing" gas and committing suicide.

Perhaps the Natives don't realize that they are welcome in our society. It is much better than theirs...in all ways. So I suggest they just join us, and stop causing tax payers useless money. Everyone will be happy. Besides, for the ones who have already joined our society (with the exception of their regular "rituals", which is fine), they know it is better.

[Low Light Mike]

Pardon the pause to discuss some item's in the previous post. I quote the author:

"Perhaps the Natives don't realize that they are welcome in our society. It is much better than theirs...in all ways. So I suggest they just join us, and stop causing tax payers useless money. Everyone will be happy. Besides, for the ones who have already joined our society (with the exception of their regular "rituals", which is fine), they know it is better. "

I need to speak up about this. Phrases like "the Natives" implies their entire population, and that's hyperbole, which can be considered offensive when being directed to a group of people. In my opinion, our society isn't "so much better than theirs, in every way" .....not that Highway#1 street races happen in all parts of Canada, nor do Boxing Day gang shootings happen in all city's dowtowns every day......but our overall Canadian society does have some problems of it's own.

Aboriginal society is much different than our mainstream N.American society. Yes they have some profound problems, but their society's values and history is fundamentally different from the mainstream. I find it tough to comprehend what it must be like to be a young Native adult living on reserve in Canada.

In conclusion: I've got a few native friends, and I believe that both cultures have much to learn from each other....but that both cultures need to respect the others' uniqueness.

Peace - out.

[Dane]

flugelhorn said:

Pardon the pause to discuss some item's in the previous post. I quote the author:

"Perhaps the Natives don't realize that they are welcome in our society. It is much better than theirs...in all ways. So I suggest they just join us, and stop causing tax payers useless money. Everyone will be happy. Besides, for the ones who have already joined our society (with the exception of their regular "rituals", which is fine), they know it is better. "

I need to speak up about this. Phrases like "the Natives" implies their entire population, and that's hyperbole, which can be considered offensive when being directed to a group of people. In my opinion, our society isn't "so much better than theirs, in every way" .....not that Highway#1 street races happen in all parts of Canada, nor do Boxing Day gang shootings happen in all city's dowtowns every day......but our overall Canadian society does have some problems of it's own.

Aboriginal society is much different than our mainstream N.American society. Yes they have some profound problems, but their society's values and history is fundamentally different from the mainstream. I find it tough to comprehend what it must be like to be a young Native adult living on reserve in Canada.

In conclusion: I've got a few native friends, and I believe that both cultures have much to learn from each other....but that both cultures need to respect the others' uniqueness.

Peace - out.

1. Generally when you're speaking of a societal group in broad terms to address a macro (provincial/federal in this case) issue "the ...." is the appropriate label, rather than a list of groups that have given expressive consent to agreeing with a certain issue.

2. Native "culture" in its purest, visible form, is exactly the same as the culture of every other Canadian in this country. My girlfriend is asian and her background is markedly different than mine, but we've both grown up in urban environments. A native growing up on an urban reserve, despite the ussually common social issues will have the same "culture" as me, consumerism of american pop culuture (and I love it...)

3. No one that's not a rascist tool has a problem with Native culture, with Native beliefs etc... The problems occur with things like the Indian Act which have mandated Natives to be a seperate catagory of Canadian.

4. "I find it tough to comprehend what it must be like to be a young Native adult living on reserve in Canada." Frankly I've never been able to figure out why most Natives are willing to live on reserves. Most recent Canadian research has demonstrated, albeit with out a lot of this research done, that natives that leave the reserve areas generally have a higher income, and less documented issues with social problems. Also, one you remove non-reserve aboriginals from crime stats they're still over-represented in jails but not by nearly as much. The argument that they want to stay together for cultural reasons is very valid, but government funded reserves don't really seem to be doing it for them.

[Scott]

I was thinking of something like the Tin Wis Best Western in Tofino.. it's run by a Native band ... and it must make money. There's the big Native cultural center in Duncan that is a pretty big tourist draw on the Island, especially from foreigners (on their website it says that 60+ % of their visitors are from outside of Canada. There are other resorts/hotels run by Native bands on the Island and islands along the coast. Campgrounds too... there's beautiful campground in Port Renfrew basically right on the beach run by a Native band. I stayed there overnight a few years ago and no one came to collect the fees. They also run things like the West Coast Trail.

I think these types of projects could be expanded/increased by ambitious Native groups. Why would Kuper Island be any less attractive than any of the other Gulf Islands? Or Valdez... or land they own on other parts of the coast. I think maybe as bands become a bit more independant in the future... they might start undertaking new projects like these.. and this might increase demand for ferries in places where they aren't in such demand today.